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Has SLI become a norm in games? - Page 5  

post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
*snip
Essentially, I was in a hurry and the "devs and" portion of it was a mistake; I know it's implemented by Nvidia and through drivers. Another solid write-up though.

EDIT: Though it makes me wonder... I don't know how the profiles actually work, what they account for, etc. I know they vary from game to game, so does it come down to the devs sending some specific information to Nvidia? Does Nvidia just take a copy of the game, analyze it, and spit out the profile?
Edited by EfemaN - 4/10/11 at 5:18pm
post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by EfemaN View Post
Essentially, I was in a hurry and the "devs and" portion of it was a mistake; I know it's implemented by Nvidia and through drivers. Another solid write-up though.

EDIT: Though it makes me wonder... I don't know how the profiles actually work, what they account for, etc. I know they vary from game to game, so does it come down to the devs sending some specific information to Nvidia? Does Nvidia just take a copy of the game, analyze it, and spit out the profile?
Thanks, and it's all good

RE: the 2nd question, that is an interesting one for which I have no answer, only guesses.

I do know lots of games are developed with nVidia's assistance, so I'm sure in these cases they know a lot about the game code already. In cases where they aren't part of the dev process I'd imagine they would indeed request various info from the devs and leverage that info to give them a logical starting point for their testing.

I'd also guess that all games based on the same game engine like Unreal probably utilize very similar profile content to one another.

Ultimately though I'd bet that taking a copy of the game and testing it using various profile settings to see what works best would be part of the process in every case.

Here's a screenie from nV Inspector which exposes a good deal more of the 'stuff' that is actually stored in a 'gaming profile' aside from the subset of settings that you can actually play around with in NVCP.

At the top in the green bar you can see the names of all the .exe's for which the '3dMark11' profile will be applied when they are run.

You can see that there's a couple SLI-related fields in the top section (Compatibility Bits), as well as a 'dedicated' SLI section a little ways down. That collection of settings is what makes up the 'SLI Profile' portion of the Gaming Profile (and there may well be others that aren't exposed through the nVInspector interface, not 100% on that).





Also here's perhaps some of the 'proof' that FD was asking about earlier, here's a screenie of NVCP from the previous driver set, the 266.30. Note how there is no profile in the dropdown for 3dMark11 at all?

Well, it's very easy to confirm that if you install these drivers, SLI will NOT work on 3dMark11, whereas SLI works perfect on the 266.58 drivers. This is due to the presence of a properly configured gaming profile (and it's subset, the SLI Profile) for 3dMark11, which points at the proper .exe, all of which I pointed out in the first screenshot




Edited by brettjv - 4/10/11 at 6:02pm
    
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post #43 of 72
FnkDctr, how do you notice micro-stutter in games? What do you look for?
Edited by Draygonn - 4/10/11 at 6:43pm
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post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draygonn View Post
FnkDctr, how do you notice micro-stutter in games? Is it like a lagginess?
its more like a stutter every once n awhile. for guild wars, it was mostly when i moved. spun fast. you would notice a very quick pause in frames, then a burst forward a couple frames. its not a slow choppy lag, its a sudden POP... POP.. type stutter.

In Mafia 2, it was around intense graphics and explosions. You would notice it mostly inside buildings where there are a lot of textures. You would turn, and it would shutter choppy type stutter as you rotate.

Ohh I forgot, also in Crysis 2. The very beggining where the fires are near your very first enemy encounter. I would sidestep around the fire and get it.

My brother came over and said, "your new computer is still choppy like that?"

I was pretty embarassed to say I got this great quad core cpu, ram and motherboard, and games are still choppy because my SLI 8800gt's cant perform?

They can perform. I ran crysis one just fine on my socket 939.

Heres a great article on micro stutter.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,6...gies/Practice/

Here is a video of micro stutter on a very high end system. According to bretty it only happens at 20fps or low end systems


Those cards can handle the game easy. That is a perfect example of micro stutter and its effect on all systems high end and low end. Its not worth the headache once you get it, trust me.
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post #45 of 72
FD, you are a troll of the worst possible kind.

You think I don't understand microstutter? Here's me explaining the phenomenon to other users, well over a year ago:

http://www.overclock.net/ati/652953-...ml#post8251705

And here's me, going on in MINUTE DETAIL, EXACTLY how to USE the FRAMETIMES provided by FRAPS to detect Microstutter.

http://www.overclock.net/ati/771850-...ml#post9937263

I want you to freaking READ these posts, and then come back and tell me I don't UNDERSTAND microstutter, okay!?

One last time, on the whole concept of SLI profiles, gaming profiles, etc:

If there is the VERY OCCASIONAL POSSIBILITY that one might be able to force SLI to function simply by forcing the SLI rendering mode in the NVCP, then FINE, okay, MAYBE that happens sometimes!?!

BUT IF IT WORKS, it's because you're making a change to the EXISTING SLI PROFILE for that game.

YOU CANNOT MAKE SLI WORK FOR A GAME UNLESS THERE IS A GAME PROFILE (and part of a game profile is the SLI profile).

IF a game APPEARS IN THE DROPDOWN IN THE NVCP, then the PROFILE EXISTS, and therefore the NECESSARY FRAMEWORK FOR SLI TO WORK IS PRESENT.

Beyond that, it is a matter of using the CORRECT settings in the profile.

The bottom-line is that your understanding of the whole process of SLI is completely off if you think that 'one card does details' and the 'other does textures' unless you 'force SLI' by 'forcing AFR' through NVCP. You are dead wrong if you think that's how it works.

SLI support does not come from the GAME. SLI support for games comes from SLI profiles in the driver.

And SLI USES AFR, ALWAYS.
Edited by brettjv - 4/11/11 at 3:26pm
    
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post #46 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
FD, you are a troll of the worst possible kind.
umad bro?


Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
I want you to freaking READ these posts, and then come back and tell me I don't UNDERSTAND microstutter, okay, you obnoxious little @#$%^@@#!?
umad bro...


Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
If there is the VERY OCCASIONAL POSSIBILITY that one might be able to force SLI to function simply by forcing the SLI rendering mode in the NVCP, then FINE, okay, MAYBE that happens sometimes!?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
You cannot force SLI to work by 'using the rendering'. So that may be where your confusion is coming from. You think you're forcing SLI on ... but you're not. There HAS to be an SLi profile for the game in order for SLi to work, and there's nothing you can change in the settings of NVCP to 'force' SLi.
Which is it bretty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
BUT IF IT WORKS, it's because you're making a change to the EXISTING SLI PROFILE for that game.
It doesnt have an SLI profile, we already determined this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
YOU CANNOT MAKE SLI WORK FOR A GAME UNLESS THERE IS A GAME PROFILE
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
If there is the VERY OCCASIONAL POSSIBILITY that one might be able to force SLI to function simply by forcing the SLI rendering mode in the NVCP, then FINE, okay, MAYBE that happens sometimes!?!
Which is it bretty? We already determinted you can FORCE SLI out of a game that has NO SLI PROFILE. You are contradicting yourself on many occasions. Which is the pattern of a fail troll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
IF a game APPEARS IN THE DROPDOWN IN THE NVCP, then the PROFILE EXISTS, and therefore the NECESSARY FRAMEWORK FOR SLI TO WORK IS PRESENT.
Hey bret, go back to my barney steps solution for you. I typed it barney style man, you need your mom to walk you through it angry child?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FnkDctr View Post
Just because its not on the SLI profile doesnt mean you cant click that little button to the right. See it brett? it says... "ADD"... click that.. ok, there you go. Now search your computer for the actual game .exe. You might not know this, but programs are installed under a folder called, "program files" There ya go. Find the folder.. ok, good boy.. Now click on the exe.. WEEeeee!! ya did it bretty!!

Ok, now try this.. Go to frame rendering, and try alternate 1 and 2.. benchmark, and post results.. Wow look at you go brett, you're all grown up now. Way to go
Barney steps brett, barney steps.. there ya go.. one step at a time. dont get all worked up small brain child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Ergo, if Conan works in this way, it's because the INFORMATION IN THE NV-PROVIDED SLI PROFILE IS INCORRECT/NOT OPTIMAL.
It didnt have an SLI profile, the drivers didnt support it brett.. where did this incorrect magical SLI profile come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Ergo, when you change the SLI Rendering mode, and what you are doing is CHANGING THE RENDERING SETTINGS IN THE EXISTING SLI PROFILE for Conan from ONE TYPE OF AFR to ANOTHER TYPE of AFR.
Lol? didnt I say this already? This is how you force SLI in a game that has NO SLI PROFILE BRETTY. You're such a fail parrot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
The bottom-line is that your understanding of the whole process of SLI is completely OFF
Lol ok brett. I just proven you with facts 2 posts ago. You have nothing but your own links to post of more nonsense you cant back up.

I posted facts. You do nothing but contradict yourself and chase your tail in circles.

Facts are. You can force SLI, you get micro stutter at all speeds. SLI is fun, but a pain especially when single cards run every game just fine. And last, bretty is a fail troll.. Stop contradicting yourself and come up with facts or benchmark proof. Im tired of you burying my great educational posts with your repetitive incorrect spam. Take it to another topic please, people are trying to learn here.
Edited by FnkDctr - 4/10/11 at 7:16pm
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post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by FnkDctr View Post
its more like a stutter every once n awhile. for guild wars, it was mostly when i moved. spun fast. you would notice a very quick pause in frames, then a burst forward a couple frames. its not a slow choppy lag, its a sudden POP... POP.. type stutter.

In Mafia 2, it was around intense graphics and explosions. You would notice it mostly inside buildings where there are a lot of textures. You would turn, and it would shutter choppy type stutter as you rotate.

Ohh I forgot, also in Crysis 2. The very beggining where the fires are near your very first enemy encounter. I would sidestep around the fire and get it.
Classic. All this talk, and you don't even KNOW WHAT MICROSTUTTER IS, and don't know how to test for it happening!?!

What a donut ...
    
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post #48 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by FnkDctr View Post
Just because its not on the SLI profile doesnt mean you cant click that little button to the right. See it brett? it says... "ADD"... click that.. ok, there you go. Now search your computer for the actual game .exe. You might not know this, but programs are installed under a folder called, "program files" There ya go. Find the folder.. ok, good boy.. Now click on the exe..
This is exactly the point of brettjv that one does need a Profile. If it is not supplied, one needs to 'add' (or, create) a Profile.


Quote:
When Aion was first released, it did not support SLI and no profile was created. I was getting around 30-40 fps maxed detail AA and settings. I then went to my nvidia control panel and started to tinker with settings.

You can force alternate frame rendering, which usually will force the cards to split the work load regardless of the drivers. This will sometimes actually decrease performance such as in Mafia 2 and America's Army 3.
Without an SLI profile provided for Aion at release, FnkDctr ''then went to my nvidia control panel and started to tinker with settings.'' I suppose it is referring to adjustments made in the Global Settings?

You may call this 'forcing SLI without an SLI profile'. But this method is essentially customizing the Global SLI profile (vs making a custom Profile for that particular application within the Program Settings)

The bottom line is still: an SLI profile is needed, regardless if it is Global or 'game-specific' (ie particular to that application).
Edited by windfire - 4/10/11 at 7:39pm
post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Classic. All this talk, and you don't even KNOW WHAT MICROSTUTTER IS, and don't know how to test for it happening!?!
Try reading my illiterate friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FnkDctr View Post
its more like a stutter every once n awhile. for guild wars, it was mostly when i moved. spun fast. you would notice a very quick pause in frames, then a burst forward a couple frames. its not a slow choppy lag, its a sudden POP... POP.. type stutter.

In Mafia 2, it was around intense graphics and explosions. You would notice it mostly inside buildings where there are a lot of textures. You would turn, and it would shutter choppy type stutter as you rotate.

Ohh I forgot, also in Crysis 2. The very beggining where the fires are near your very first enemy encounter. I would sidestep around the fire and get it.

My brother came over and said, "your new computer is still choppy like that?"

I was pretty embarassed to say I got this great quad core cpu, ram and motherboard, and games are still choppy because my SLI 8800gt's cant perform?

They can perform. I ran crysis one just fine on my socket 939.

Heres a great article on micro stutter.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,6...gies/Practice/

Here is a video of micro stutter on a very high end system. According to bretty it only happens at 20fps or low end systems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZP_P...eature=related

Those cards can handle the game easy. That is a perfect example of micro stutter and its effect on all systems high end and low end. Its not worth the headache once you get it, trust me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by windfire View Post
This is exactly the point of brettjv that one does need a Profile. If it is not supplied, one needs to 'add' (or, create) a Profile.



Without an SLI profile provided for Aion at release, FnkDctr ''then went to my nvidia control panel and started to tinker with settings.'' I suppose it is referring to adjustments made in the Global Settings?

You may call this 'forcing SLI without an SLI profile'. But this method is essentially customizing the Global SLI profile (vs making a custom Profile for that particular application within the Program Settings)

The bottom line is still: an SLI profile is needed, regardless if it is Global or 'game-specific' (ie particular to that application).
Actually, I did tinker with the global settings to force SLI out of Aion. After I got it working, I selected the EXE from the ADD button and it worked since til I updated my nvidia drivers and SLI profiles later on at time of release.

Like I said many times, try google. Its possible, bretty just doesnt know and trollolololololllls
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post #50 of 72
What's funny is how he initially started out trying to tell us that all you have to do is 'force AFR' in the NVCP and will make SLI magically work on every game wherein SLI doesn't work.

And that he thought that by doing so he was taking the game out of 'native' SLI, wherein the game directed the two cards to do two totally different things, one doing 'textures' and the other doing 'details', and forced this whole other kind of SLI called 'AFR'

So I tell you what, DF, I'll be a man and admit that VERY occasionally, there may be a scenario in which one could 'force SLI' to 'work' simply by changing the rendering mode in the NVCP, which is contrary to what I originally stated. I MISPOKE on this account.

However this method WILL FAIL to work the VAST majority of the time, because there is more info required for SLI to work properly on 99% of games (i.e. there needs to be MORE information, IOW what's in the SLI profile).

To assert, as you did above, that 'this is how you make SLI work on a game that has no SLI profile' IS WRONG. Because that implies that this method is RELIABLE, when it IS NOT, in fact, remotely reliable. It's a crapshoot, at best.

For instance, lets see you 'force SLI' to work on 3dMark11 using a Forceware driver earlier than 266.58 via the NVCP? I bet you any amount of money that you CANNOT. Because the NVCP does not expose the SLI-related settings necessary to make it work.

Now lets you see you MAN UP, and admit that YOU misspoke when you were talking about how games have 'native' SLI support wherein the two cards do two different things?

I will bet you a +REP that you are constitutionally incapable of admitting that you misspoke.
    
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