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post #21 of 30
my mosfets overheat sometimes and cause CPU throttling. Never happens during games or benchmarks, only apps like Prime95. i have copper heatsinks on them atm.

Anyway, out of all my voltage bumps, which one is most likely to cause the most impact on mosfet temps?
CPU?
CPU/NB?
NB?

thanks
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post #22 of 30
Slightly less technical question-

At what point to the number of power phases on a mobo become overkill? Take gigabyte's P67s for example, the UD5 has 20 and the UD7 has 24. All other things equal, would the UD7 get a better overclock? By how much?
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post #23 of 30
I'm confident that this new VRM article with focus on how it actually works will be a great asset to this site and perhaps even take a lot of load off of me if you could share your information. I'm in the middle of school constraints right now and haven't been exactly able to be the most up-to-date on my article. At the moment I'm also the go-to-guy on most VRM info in this site, however my thread was more designed to cater to user safety and my intentions on answering those questions, rather than interest in how the actual operation works; and I'm getting a lot of the latter, as well as having to keep up with so much new VRM information coming to me and having to update the article so often to adjust to that since at the moment it's the only one around here you can refer to (notice the new "Types of VRMs" section - I actually plan to remove that and refer to your article once it's out; at the moment I haven't any time to update that section) - not that it's completely messing up the purpose of my thread but it's a bit inconvenient when time is a constraint. Not that I want to put the entire load that this site may have to ask about VRMs on you either, I might even be here to answer questions a few times and you can feel free to visit my thread once in awhile. It's a big help to me, as well as to the entire OCN community, and I really appreciate that

Quote:
my mosfets overheat sometimes and cause CPU throttling. Never happens during games or benchmarks, only apps like Prime95. i have copper heatsinks on them atm.
Are you running high voltage on your OC'ed 1090T? the Phenom II x6 is just about the most VRM-heavy AMD CPU out there so it wouldn't be unexpected that some early heat throttling happen even on a quality VRM set. Perhaps getting some active cooling to that area will help, apparently any sort of even small active cooling over VRMs can be a big benefit in keeping the VRM temps down. I notice you're using water cooling so the likelihood is the VRM area gets no (active) cooling and air movement at the moment. See if you can find a small fan to mount in that area. The CPU or CPU-NB run from the CPU-area VRMs; the CPU-NB gets less phases because it usually consumes much less power and it's not as big an issue. The CPU voltage would probably be the heat culprit here.

Quote:
At what point to the number of power phases on a mobo become overkill? Take gigabyte's P67s for example, the UD5 has 20 and the UD7 has 24. All other things equal, would the UD7 get a better overclock? By how much?
Cleaner power by way of more phases usually means a better overclock, I think the big amount of phases is meant for situations where you are using water cooling or extreme cooling and have to take voltage, clocks, etc. to the max and be able to keep in stable. For the regular user it probably would, indeed, be overkill.
Edited by xd_1771 - 4/12/11 at 11:01pm
post #24 of 30
My P5Q Pro blew one of slave IC's that controls CPU power phase..



I't didnt sparked right along as mobo refused to power up,just moved fan for a split of a second and nothing..

If I disconnect 8Pin PWR cable from the mobo it would fire up (spin the fans)

It was like some sort of a protection was going on and red LED on PSU would stay on..

I have tested my PSU on another comp and it was fine,also tested another PSU on P5Q pro and it did the same thing (before sparking)..

After maybe 20 trials it did power up but sparked on that IC (it didn't melted it)..

I was suspicious on dust as there was a pile of dust right on that IC which sparked..

1. What was probable cause of that short?

2. Can mobo still work without that IC (and phase)and is it safe for me to test it with CPU in it as I don't want to kill it also..

All the testings were done w/o anyCPU in the socket..

Thanx for your time..

CHEERS..
     
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post #25 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingT View Post
My P5Q Pro blew one of slave IC's that controls CPU power phase..




I't didnt sparked right along as mobo refused to power up,just moved fan for a split of a second and nothing..

If I disconnect 8Pin PWR cable from the mobo it would fire up (spin the fans)

It was like some sort of a protection was going on and red LED on PSU would stay on..

I have tested my PSU on another comp and it was fine,also tested another PSU on P5Q pro and it did the same thing (before sparking)..

After maybe 20 trials it did power up but sparked on that IC (it didn't melted it)..

I was suspicious on dust as there was a pile of dust right on that IC which sparked..

1. What was probable cause of that short?

2. Can mobo still work without that IC (and phase)and is it safe for me to test it with CPU in it as I don't want to kill it also..

All the testings were done w/o anyCPU in the socket..

Thanx for your time..

CHEERS..
If your PWm has doide emulation you shoudl be fine, but its old and doesn't. One the new boards like GB's the PWm has doide emulation whcih allows the dropping of phases, and they can just turn off forever and the VRC still work.

You can try and see if it works, or you might have to RMA, i can't say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
I'm confident that this new VRM article with focus on how it actually works will be a great asset to this site and perhaps even take a lot of load off of me if you could share your information. I'm in the middle of school constraints right now and haven't been exactly able to be the most up-to-date on my article. At the moment I'm also the go-to-guy on most VRM info in this site, however my thread was more designed to cater to user safety and my intentions on answering those questions, rather than interest in how the actual operation works; and I'm getting a lot of the latter, as well as having to keep up with so much new VRM information coming to me and having to update the article so often to adjust to that since at the moment it's the only one around here you can refer to (notice the new "Types of VRMs" section - I actually plan to remove that and refer to your article once it's out; at the moment I haven't any time to update that section) - not that it's completely messing up the purpose of my thread but it's a bit inconvenient when time is a constraint. Not that I want to put the entire load that this site may have to ask about VRMs on you either, I might even be here to answer questions a few times and you can feel free to visit my thread once in awhile. It's a big help to me, as well as to the entire OCN community, and I really appreciate that


Are you running high voltage on your OC'ed 1090T? the Phenom II x6 is just about the most VRM-heavy AMD CPU out there so it wouldn't be unexpected that some early heat throttling happen even on a quality VRM set. Perhaps getting some active cooling to that area will help, apparently any sort of even small active cooling over VRMs can be a big benefit in keeping the VRM temps down. I notice you're using water cooling so the likelihood is the VRM area gets no (active) cooling and air movement at the moment. See if you can find a small fan to mount in that area. The CPU or CPU-NB run from the CPU-area VRMs; the CPU-NB gets less phases because it usually consumes much less power and it's not as big an issue. The CPU voltage would probably be the heat culprit here.


Cleaner power by way of more phases usually means a better overclock, I think the big amount of phases is meant for situations where you are using water cooling or extreme cooling and have to take voltage, clocks, etc. to the max and be able to keep in stable. For the regular user it probably would, indeed, be overkill.
Alright well ill write it up and let you know when its done! currently rushing to get teh X58A-OC board review done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traches View Post
Slightly less technical question-

At what point to the number of power phases on a mobo become overkill? Take gigabyte's P67s for example, the UD5 has 20 and the UD7 has 24. All other things equal, would the UD7 get a better overclock? By how much?
Here is the thing, GB does this, and its becuase intersil allows it. intersil makes their PWMs and they have phase doublers, that modulate the originial 6 phases/channels back and forth between two new channels, they use 18 of these daughter chips on their UD7 series. When GIGABYTE uses so many phases its for a few reasons.
#1 efficiency
#2 better temperatures
#3 longer lasting VRC

#4 becuase of some intersil technology they are able to use a much lower switching frequency with much less capacitors on the output filter design, which gives you a very low ESR low-pass filter, which allows much better transient responce on a much larger VRC.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepahl318 View Post
my mosfets overheat sometimes and cause CPU throttling. Never happens during games or benchmarks, only apps like Prime95. i have copper heatsinks on them atm.

Anyway, out of all my voltage bumps, which one is most likely to cause the most impact on mosfet temps?
CPU?
CPU/NB?
NB?

thanks
To be honest its REALLLLLLLLLYYYYYY hard to heat up a MOSFET like that, most can take 125C becuase thermal compensation occurs. You need to lower the CPu frequency, votlage isn't the only issue, Current is the issue and you are pulling more with a higher frequency.
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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post
If your PWm has doide emulation you shoudl be fine, but its old and doesn't. One the new boards like GB's the PWm has doide emulation whcih allows the dropping of phases, and they can just turn off forever and the VRC still work.

You can try and see if it works, or you might have to RMA, i can't say.
Yah but is it safe for me to test it with CPU in the socket?

Thanx for your input..

CHEERS..
     
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post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
no i don't think it would be lol. Can you take a picture of your VRM? do you have a digital mutlimeter?
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post #28 of 30
Is VRM/Mofset cooling a good idea?
Heard it can sometimes make a difference when overclocking on motherboards and graphics cards - and i'm always hearing people on this forum suggest it.
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post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post
vdrop and vdroop are mechanism for keeping the CPU healthy in a sense. Ther eis a lot of debate over vdroop and its importance, but here is the real deal with it.

To keep the CPU in thermal spec, which for a i7 900 series is 130watts the voltage needs to drop to compensate for teh increase in current. Here is how it goes.

Wattage=votlage x current (P=IV)\\
At stock you have a VID, and for spec of the i7 900 series there is a 100amp stepup from idle to load, in extreme cases.

So at stock at idle you have about lets say 1.2v VID and 30 watt CPU so amperage is 30/1.2=25 amps. When the CPU is going to go under load, there will be a 100amp steup to something like 125amps in our case.

125amp x 1.2v is 150 watts. That is too high. So instead of dropping current, voltage is drooped in proportion to amperage increase. The voltage drops to 1.04v and current is at 125 amps and that gives you a 130 watt TDP.

To be honest that is just hypothetical, TDP is actually at 80% of true wattage for Intel.
My numbers are just a hypothetical situation, but you see it worked out nicely.


Anyways vdrop is just the difference between what you set in BIOS to what you get without vdroop. You will never get what you set, unless some type of LLC has been engaged.

Vdrop is part of every voltage on your motherboard, and can be very very small.
Nice, I've been wondering about vdroop recently as well, so thanks a lot for explaining.
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post #30 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyster View Post
Is VRM/Mofset cooling a good idea?
Heard it can sometimes make a difference when overclocking on motherboards and graphics cards - and i'm always hearing people on this forum suggest it.
Yes it help on newer cards because they skimp on the VRm. above subzero it can be useful on a motherboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingT View Post
Yah but is it safe for me to test it with CPU in the socket?

Thanx for your input..

CHEERS..
I just saw teh picture, and you blew a driver IC, i have no idea how you did that, but i doubt your board will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goaky View Post
Nice, I've been wondering about vdroop recently as well, so thanks a lot for explaining.
no problem.
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