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Why not to trust TomsHardware (for PSUs at least) - Page 6  

post #51 of 108
Phew... I was sure the reviews for this PSU were good, so that had me worried that maybe the testing I looked at wasn't very in-depth, as it seems a lot of places don't do very good testing of PSU's. I'll have to double check before I decide to upgrade to a 6950 in a few weeks.
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post #52 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
Add HardOCP, HardwareSecrets, TheLab.gr, Kitguru, and ITOCP.
HardOCP, definitely. Gabe @ Hardware Secrets grades too easily (gives out Gold like its candy), but nobody does such a thorough tear down. Not even Oklahoma Wolf. Kitguru has been good lately, but they can be pretty inconsistent on how they load a PSU and I think they're also only at room temperature.
post #53 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingT View Post
Thanx Phaeadrus2129 you're really looking after our interests..

Now what's up wit that "
No-name brand PSUs vs Known Brands: MAD testing

From this link: http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/ar...#ixzz1JOhu1Oxf
that you have posted on Tom's forum..

Do you really buy that CM Real Power M620 delivered 850W and 57A on 12V+ rails w/ 76% efficiency without burning down or overheating..

CHEERS..
I was there when we tested those PSUs, there was no special treatment for the CM products, they just remained running when pushing beyond the limit and the limit reached was when the PSU auto-shutdown. The increase of the different voltlines was the same between PSUs tested. In ideal situation your PSU can go higher than rated for a short period, and auto-shutdown when there's risk over overheating/instability.

any brand PSU will feature such a security and build-in overhead, after all a proper PSU is rated at higher ambient temps and 100% 24/7 runtime. being able to run a 620 CM PSU at 850W for a short time doesn't mean it won't fail when you leave it running a few hours. We didn't have this time to find out, and honestly see the overloading test as a way to find out how the PSU behaves when pushed beyond rated spec.

Of the two budget PSU:
- cheapest one didn't even reach rated wattage and broke down at <400W , even after 5min, while it's rated at 450W. burned smell and good for the trashcan
- the SweeX 650W auto-shutoff at 550W load; it still worked after a system reset but never managed to reach its rated speed.

at CM labs we get a PC with a nice excel sheet to work with and adjust the voltages according, our guy (Geoffrey) does know a bit about PSU to not randomly test some imaginary scenario's. CM staff is helpful and in no way pushing their products to be tested differently.

latest article @ CM labs as Corsair vs CM unit with a very close outcome.
http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/ar...#axzz1JQwJ6ESw

if CM wanted to "cheat" the tests, they would be outshining any competitor tested at their labs, as you can see from the link above, that's simply not the case.
Edited by jmke - 4/13/11 at 12:41pm
post #54 of 108
This kinda frustrates me. The whole review sites being corporate kiss-asses thing. I always knew it about Video Games, but didn't figure too many would be in it with PC hardware.

It's just like Rodney Reynolds (3DGameMan). His reviews used to be straight up, honest, and pretty thorough (not sure about PSU's, but on cases they were). I've watched more recent reviews of his lately and all I hear is "100% Kickass Case!" Makes me sick when a case with so many drawbacks get 100% from him. he's gone the way of the darkside too... Or he's just lost his mind.

Either way, thanks for posting this. it's good info.

Oh, and what's with all the godamn ads at Tom's? There isn't an inch on the screen that doesn't have some kind of advertisement...
Edited by X-Nine - 4/13/11 at 12:43pm
post #55 of 108
Good point jmke. If they really wanted to slant the results, they could. But I think the biggest rub is not disclosing that they're at Cooler Master's facility doing the testing. If you come right out and say it, that's fine.
post #56 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
Good point jmke. If they really wanted to slant the results, they could. But I think the biggest rub is not disclosing that they're at Cooler Master's facility doing the testing. If you come right out and say it, that's fine.
Exactly.

Even if it isn't acted upon, it's still a potential conflict of interest, and not revealing it at least is unprofessional journalistic conduct.
post #57 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
Good point jmke. If they really wanted to slant the results, they could. But I think the biggest rub is not disclosing that they're at Cooler Master's facility doing the testing. If you come right out and say it, that's fine.
Exactly. Even the slightest hint of impropriety puts a cloud of suspicion on the validity on the test methodology and results. This is compounded when the posted results are shown to be biased towards the products made (or marketed) by the company who's lab is being used as was obvious in the example posted by Phaedrus.
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post #58 of 108
Thanks for the heads up. [H] and JG are pretty much my two go-to reviewers, [H] especially for GPUs because of their testing methods.

I'll keep this in mind the next time I see a review.
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post #59 of 108
Chris Angelini, editor-in-chief, posted a response. Looks like you hit a nerve. Emphasis is his.

Quote:
Hi guys,

Always nice to see "shoot first and ask questions later," especially when it's someone's reputation on the line. Phaedrus, if you'd like to supply me with your email address, I'll be sure to let you know each time we hire a new writer so that you don't have to rely on "the last time you checked."

For the record, there is no such thing as a journalist/PR guy in my world. Either you're a professional who gets paid to write objectively or you're paid to push an agenda. The entire team here works its collective butt off to deliver the most data-driven editorial content around based on what the audience asks to see, and I can defend it vigorously as a result. The folks who kick in the occasional "this sucks..." and shuffle off are forgetting the "...and this is what I'd like to see to make it more applicable to me," which we're happy to take into consideration. Can't help you if you're one of those guys.

Patrick Afschar is contracted on a per-story basis as a freelance writer. He was not a part of defining our test methodology (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ment,2657.html). The test methodology we adopted was the product of technical discussion with key vendors, including be quiet, Seasonic, FSP, and Enermax, and reader feedback. Ripple and noise were suggested later by Antec and subsequently added. He simply abides by it.

The tests are conducted at Cooler Master's facility by him. Testing does not come courtesy of Cooler Master. We've also used be quiet, Enermax, and Seasonic's facilities. We do not pay for time in Cooler Master's lab, and Cooler Master is not a customer of Bestofmedia's, as far as I know. Then again, I keep our editorial department separate from anything that sales does, specifically to avoid conflicts of interest. This is a luxury we enjoy, enabled by clearly delineated departments.

It's important to us to use the right equipment for this testing though, and as you observe, it is expensive equipment, and that's why the testing has to be done outside of our own lab (where everything else gets tested).

There is nothing to hide here, guys. When a story goes up, I tear into its reader feedback and make suggestions to our writers on ways to improve content to address what you want to see. That includes the PSU pieces submitted by our German office. If you have constructive feedback, share it with us; we're always listening, and I'm always available (cangelini at bestofmedia dot come) to address your concerns.

Best,
Chris
------------------------------
Chris Angelini
Worldwide Editor-in-Chief, Tom's Hardware US
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post #60 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyGURU View Post
Good point jmke. If they really wanted to slant the results, they could. But I think the biggest rub is not disclosing that they're at Cooler Master's facility doing the testing. If you come right out and say it, that's fine.
100% correct Jonny, that's why we listed it on the first page of our PSU articles that we are doing this at CM HQ in Venlo.

Not mentioning this (like TomsHW does) and acting as if it is "your equipment" just makes them look ridiculous when found out and all their hours of testing work turned doubtful
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