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[Ars] How publishers punish us for buying new games - Page 9

post #81 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirmie View Post
Yeah! Games should never have bugs! This is because all developers are so perfect that they never even mispell anything, let alone not accounting for a particular hardware setup with a driver that just came out the day before. Real software developers always account for that a scrap all of the disks they had made, packaged, and shipped. Repackaging and testing games doesn't cost anything either by the way. Its actually done by underpants gnomes.
How about delaying printing the discs until you're as sure as you can be that it's relatively bug free?


We're not asking for perfection, but when we get the likes of New Vegas it makes us wonder if devs even have QA departments anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecchi-BANZAII!!! View Post
I can agree with the rest as he do overreact to some extent but for the quoted part I can't agree.
Because it was never on the disk, only on the disc.
Oh hey there James May, I didn't know you had an OCN account.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post


No, PS3 respects the menuing settings built into the disc. As it should...it's the disc author who is a jerkwad for making sections unskippable, not the player that is doing what it is supposed to be doing.

I say it should override jerkward disc authors. We don't care about the unskippable BS, we just want to watch a mindless movie.
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post #82 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
Edit: I did get Krispy Kreme last night by the way. I accidentally ate the whole box before taking photos though.
Underline: Point
Bold: Fixed

Point I make? Accident?!

The OP: all too true. Enough is enough already. I like movie previews in the theaters, not from my couch.
    
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post #83 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkinpuncher View Post
Well if you already paid for the movie I wouldnt feel too bad about downloading it as well.
This is actually perfectly legal if you do own the DVD. Same goes for music. Once you buy a music/audio CD, if you are to torrent said CD later because the disc is too scratched up, it's still legal, because you have ownership rights to those songs. Of course it is a different story if you bought a regular version, and then torrent the deluxe.
 
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post #84 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecchi-BANZAII!!! View Post
I can agree with the rest as he do overreact to some extent but for the quoted part I can't agree.
Because it was never on the disk, only on the disc.
Oh! Were you talking about downloading it to get the locked content? If so, I appologize.

Quote:
Some people buy Special Editions and never opens the package.
Good point; I completely forgot about that. Sorry.
post #85 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestECull View Post
How about delaying printing the discs until you're as sure as you can be that it's relatively bug free?
The reality is that most games that ship have hundreds, and sometimes thousand of known bugs. Most known bugs that are shipped with are considered minor or cosmetic, which means they can be noticed but usually aren't much of an annoyance and sometimes are small enough that the average player won't even notice (things like Z-fighting of small objects off in the distance near the back of the camera's frustum, are common examples).

Fixing almost all known bugs could literally take a year or more. Some bugs are incredibly tough to fix, and involve rewriting large systems that are part of the architecture of the game. And then, when you make a large architectural change to the code you end up causing 80 new bugs in the process, and as you go to fix those you find out that those bugs require the rewrite of another large system to fix. The cycle continues and you're a year into it and you've fixed 800 bugs, and caused 300 bugs. Generally you'll fix more bugs than you will cause, and over time you'll have fewer bugs and less severe bugs.

There comes the point in all games where you've tested it, players have tested it, and most people agree that on all known configurations of any supported platforms that you can play through the game as intended without bugs negatively impacting the experience enough that it would be worth it to delay it any longer. "worth it" applies to both the publisher and the players. If only 0.2% of your customers are going to notice bug #10472, and when they do notice it they will not really be affected much by it, is that worth delaying the project a week at the cost of $300k?

This leaves the unknown bugs, the ones that require very specific hardware configurations, or rare/old/or brand new drivers. Those kinds of bugs can sometimes not even show up until the final product has reached a large customer base. Now, at that point, if you're those customers would you prefer a patch, or not?

I've literally worked on a project that would crash only if the person was running Windows XP, 64-bit, and had a USB foam rocket launcher attached to their computer at the time the program was starting up. Is that a configuration you expect the developer to test before they ship?

I will concede there are probably occasions when there are more severe bugs that publishers know about and ship a game anyway. I've never worked for a publisher like that, and hope I never have to.

Another huge factor most gamers don't consider is that gold master discs, and advertisement slots must be purchased/completed months in advance. Once a gold master disc is pressed, any bugs found after that will have to be part of a day one patch. This is why most games end up with day 1 patches, because in the 3-4 months after the gold master disc was made they've fixed 100 bugs, and they want the player to not have to deal with those 100 bugs once they get the product in their hands. This is also another reason why you cannot just continue to delay a game forever, at some point you have to be able to reserve advertising slots and give a shipping date for the game, otherwise you end up being another Duke Nukem Forever.
Edited by lordikon - 6/9/11 at 11:23pm
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post #86 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
What i find worse is that practically every NVidia sponsored game has the stupid Nvidia intro, that you CAN'T skip, even if it's your 100th time playing it.
just replace the video with something awesome, or delete it altogether.

also, on topic, this is so true. i hate those stupid intro things. i just wanna watch the damn movie! i've noticed disney movies are especially notorious for tons of commercials. Like, i don't GIVE A RATS ASS IS YOU REMASTERED PINOCCHIO ON BLU RAYZ!!1! it makes me miss the old days of VHS where you could skip to exactly where you wanted to.
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post #87 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Get a SSD.
This, for reals. I don't care how much you moan about "lack of space!!!" when we have like 2TB data storage anyways, they are sooo worth the price.
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post #88 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirmie View Post
Yeah! Games should never have bugs! This is because all developers are so perfect that they never even mispell anything, let alone not accounting for a particular hardware setup with a driver that just came out the day before. Real software developers always account for that a scrap all of the disks they had made, packaged, and shipped. Repackaging and testing games doesn't cost anything either by the way. Its actually done by underpants gnomes.
If millions of people are paying you $60 bucks for your game you better cross your T's and dot the I's

I don't get all the sympathy in this thread. Yes making games is complex but using that as an excuse for pushing out buggy games is just a cop out. Get in another industry if you can't do it right
Edited by cchoy87 - 4/14/11 at 12:27am
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post #89 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
What i find worse is that practically every NVidia sponsored game has the stupid Nvidia intro, that you CAN'T skip, even if it's your 100th time playing it.
actually you can skip it, it just takes a little bit of work that sort of defeats the purpose
post #90 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Oh! Were you talking about downloading it to get the locked content? If so, I apologize.



Good point; I completely forgot about that. Sorry.
Though I'd never get the Special ED just to DL the org game.
Though I did for WC3 and Shogo since they didn't work from disc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestECull View Post
Oh hey there James May, I didn't know you had an OCN account.
Permission to say *honk* on national television.
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