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post #41 of 117
Go find the spanish articles mentioning it, I am not going to bother to do it to be honest.

Or ask prava, he knows about it
    
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post #42 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatteh316 View Post
The distributor can only offer what they have.

They don't have any 5870's so they offer what they feel is a fair swap, And given the market value of a used 5870 a new 6850 is a fair swap.

If they give you a 6950 then they'll lose money.

If you want another 5870 or a 6950 then send it to the vendor as they will more then likely have another 5870/6950 to replace it with.
An HD 6850 is not a fair swap for an HD 5870 no matter how twisted your logic is. The HD 5800 series was the fastest and only contained enthusiast products. AMD redid their naming scheme and the 6800 series is only a mid-range card which perform significantly worse than the old cards. I'm not even joking when I say that the HD 6870 is at best as good as an HD 5850 and at worst far slower. And they want to give him an HD 6850...

First, I think you forgot that giving any card away will lose them money as the broken card they'll get in return is, well, broken. They'll lose big time even if they only give him an HD 6850.

Second, I think you missed the point of warranty. The point is that the consumer should be able to trust that the product they're buying will last at least 'til warranty ends. If the product fails before warranty ends, the manufacturer has to replace their faulty product because the consumer hasn't gotten what he paid for. They're meant to be punished for not making good enough products.


Now, whether OP is entitled to have a better card than his previous according to law or not, I don't know. According to Danish law, one wouldn't be entitled to a replacement if it's gone out of production. Then you'd have to go for a refund, but you'd be entitled for the amount of money you paid, not what the product is worth after being used/being on sale.
Edited by B!0HaZard - 4/13/11 at 9:21am
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post #43 of 117
I love ocn, too many members are happy to spout pure crap, but when asked for evidence they refuse
    
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post #44 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrano View Post
All these people talking about Spanish law, I would love to see your proof of this information, where does it say that he must get an equal or better card
Learn spanish, and read it.
http://www.consumo-inc.es/GuiaCons/l...007.htm#art114
Edited by jak3z - 4/13/11 at 9:23am
    
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post #45 of 117
WRONG

If a card breaks within 6 months, They replace it.

If a card breaks after 12 months, They send it off for repair.

If the card is not repairable they will try to replace like-for-like.

If they can't replace like-for-like they'll offer a replacement.

That replacement is determined by the current market value of the broken card.

Just because Vendors have been known to replace weaker cards with more powerful ones doesn't meen EVERY retailer has to.

A 6850 is a newer card and costs roughly the same price as used 5870.

The retailer could in all fairness just tell the OP to deal with the cards vendor directly as retailers only legally have to deal with RMA's for the first 12 months.
post #46 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by potitoos View Post
WRONG
If a card breaks within 6 months, They replace it.
If a card breaks after 12 months, They send it off for repair.
If the card is not repairable they will try to replace like-for-like.
If they can't replace like-for-like they'll offer a replacement.
That replacement is determined by the current market value of the broken card.
Just because Vendors have been known to replace weaker cards with more powerful ones doesn't meen EVERY retailer has to.
A 6850 is a newer card and costs roughly the same price as used 5870.
The retailer could in all fairness just tell the OP to deal with the cards vendor directly as retailers only legally have to deal with RMA's for the first 12 months.
I feel, I've seen this before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scatteh316 View Post
WRONG
If a card breaks within 6 months, They replace it.
If a card breaks after 12 months, They send it off for repair.
If the card is not repairable they will try to replace like-for-like.
If they can't replace like-for-like they'll offer a replacement.
That replacement is determined by the current market value of the broken card.
Just because Vendors have been known to replace weaker cards with more powerful ones doesn't meen EVERY retailer has to.
A 6850 is a newer card and costs roughly the same price as used 5870.
The retailer could in all fairness just tell the OP to deal with the cards vendor directly as retailers only legally have to deal with RMA's for the first 12 months.
Oh, right...

According to what country's laws?
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post #47 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrano View Post
I love ocn, too many members are happy to spout pure crap, but when asked for evidence they refuse
You wanted evidence? Here you go:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3z View Post
Now, please research information before you "spout pure crap", like you said
    
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post #48 of 117
I have to say i hate seeing companies doing this..its horrible for there image.

Here in the US, the value/age does nto come into efect at all. IF its under warranty, they have to give you a card of equal performance. Does not matter if my 4850x2 is dead 3 days before warranty expires, they have to give me a card of equal performance or better. Hell i have a 6 year old 7600gt with lifetime warranty. it died and they had to fix it a couple months ago. you know what? in 5 more years, if it dies again, there going to fix it or replace it with a better card, its that simple.
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post #49 of 117
To be fair , the 6800 series is damn close performance wise on some applications but don't have the raw power of the 5800 series which is a trade off for a lower price point.By your country's consumer law(as what i've seen) , you should at least be entitled a 6950 1GB replacement since AMD does not yet have an entry level enthusiast card on the market.

TBH it also depends on how much information you gave though i think stock memory/voltages and even WC'd is not very demanding for them not to replace your card (but then this is an enthusiast website , who gives the complete truth?); the PCB on chip level is pretty much dirt cheap to replace compared to its other components so ask the manufacturer if you really have to.
    
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post #50 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3z View Post
Nope, that law is no longer in use.

Quote:
Disposición derogatoria única. Derogación normativa.

Se derogan las siguientes disposiciones:[LIST]* Los artÃ*culos 48 y 65.1, letras n) y ñ) y la disposición adicional primera de la Ley 7/1996, de 15 de enero, de Ordenación del Comercio Minorista. Igualmente se derogan en la disposición final única de la Ley 7/1996, de 15 de enero, las menciones que se realizan al artÃ*culo 48 y la disposición adicional primera en su párrafo primero e Ã*ntegramente su último párrafo.
*La Ley 26/1984, de 19 de julio, General para la Defensa de los Consumidores y Usuarios.
*Ley 26/1991, de 21 de noviembre, sobre contratos celebrados fuera de los establecimientos mercantiles.
*Ley 22/1994, de 6 de julio, de responsabilidad civil por los daños causados por productos defectuosos.
*Ley 21/1995, de 6 de julio, reguladora de los viajes combinados.
*Ley 23/2003, de 10 de julio, de GarantÃ*as en la Venta de Bienes de Consumo
http://www.consumo-inc.es/GuiaCons/l...007.htm#art105

----------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razi3l View Post
You'll likely not get a 6950 because the value of a 5870 has dropped and they would offer you a product that's valued at about the same as a used 5870 (yours). It seems unfair but this is how they do it here in the UK too. You should tell them that you paid for a high-end enthusiast product and that you don't want a mid range card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatteh316 View Post
The distributor can only offer what they have.

They don't have any 5870's so they offer what they feel is a fair swap, And given the market value of a used 5870 a new 6850 is a fair swap.

If they give you a 6950 then they'll lose money.

If you want another 5870 or a 6950 then send it to the vendor as they will more then likely have another 5870/6950 to replace it with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatteh316 View Post
They can offer an exchange on a per-price basis which can and does result in slower products being offered.

Consumer law in Spain is based on a EU agreed law that all countries in the EU have to follow.



The power of fail is cleary up into the air today. For all of those who just blatantly ignore what I've been posting once and again, here comes the legal and tedious precise answer you asked for. Take in mind my english is not as good as It would be needed to do such translations (specially considering our law are soooooooooooo ambiguous).

Here it comes:

http://www.consumo-inc.es/GuiaCons/l...007.htm#art105

What is in our intereset comes in the different articles that are part of the TÃTULO V, that I will quote and translate the better I can. Note that I will show them in an order that makes them easier to understand.

Lets start from the beginning:

Quote:
CAPÃTULO I

ArtÃ*culo 114. Principios generales.

El vendedor está obligado a entregar al consumidor y usuario productos que sean conformes con el contrato, respondiendo frente a él de cualquier falta de conformidad que exista en el momento de la entrega del producto.

ArtÃ*culo 115. Ãmbito de aplicación.

(...)

ArtÃ*culo 116. Conformidad de los productos con el contrato.

Salvo prueba en contrario, se entenderá que los productos son conformes con el contrato siempre que cumplan todos los requisitos que se expresan a continuación, salvo que por las circunstancias del caso alguno de ellos no resulte aplicable:
a) Se ajusten a la descripción realizada por el vendedor y posean las cualidades del producto que el vendedor haya presentado al consumidor y usuario en forma de muestra o modelo.
b) Sean aptos para los usos a que ordinariamente se destinen los productos del mismo tipo.
c) Sean aptos para cualquier uso especial requerido por el consumidor y usuario cuando lo haya puesto en conocimiento del vendedor en el momento de celebración del contrato, siempre que éste haya admitido que el producto es apto para dicho uso.
d) Presenten la calidad y prestaciones habituales de un producto del mismo tipo que el consumidor y usuario pueda fundadamente esperar, habida cuenta de la naturaleza del producto y, en su caso, de las declaraciones públicas sobre las caracterÃ*sticas concretas de los productos hechas por el vendedor, el productor o su representante, en particular en la publicidad o en el etiquetado.
This is the base of everything, but I'm not going to go that far as to explain it briefly:

a) The seller is required to provide goods that follow the specs provided in the contract.
b) The good must able to do what is intended to do in order to fulfill the contract.
c) The good must present the quality one could expect from such good in order to fulfill the contract.

Now, lets make a quick jump to the end of the chapter so we can clarify a few things before getting to the end of the matter


Quote:
CAPÃTULO III

Ejercicio de derechos por el consumidor y usuario

ArtÃ*culo 123. Plazos.

-El vendedor responde de las faltas de conformidad que se manifiesten en un plazo de dos años desde la entrega.
(...)
-Salvo prueba en contrario, se presumirá que las faltas de conformidad que se manifiesten en los seis meses posteriores a la entrega del producto ya existÃ*an cuando la cosa se entregó, excepto cuando esta presunción sea incompatible con la naturaleza del producto o la Ã*ndole de la falta de conformidad.
This means two things:
a) The seller is responsible to honor the warranty for the first 2 years of warranty (afterwards, if that product had extra warranty, it will be handeld by the distributor/producer).
b) During the first 6 months any problem you shall have with the product will be dealed with (unless proven otherwise) as if it was a fabric defect. After that 6 months period you may be asked to prove the origin of that deffect (note: I have yet to see a vendor demanding such thing, but such is the law).

Next:

Quote:
ArtÃ*culo 124. Acción contra el productor.

Cuando al consumidor y usuario le resulte imposible o le suponga una carga excesiva dirigirse frente al vendedor por la falta de conformidad de los productos con el contrato podrá reclamar directamente al productor con el fin de obtener la sustitución o reparación del producto.
This basically means that if its easier to deal with the distributor/seller instead of the vendor, you can do so no problem.

So, lets sum it up:
-You have 2 years of warranty, that shall be honored by the vendor or distributor, the one YOU decide.

Next:

Quote:
CAPÃTULO II

Responsabilidad del vendedor y derechos del consumidor y usuario

ArtÃ*culo 118. Responsabilidad del vendedor y derechos del consumidor y usuario.

El consumidor y usuario tiene derecho a la reparación del producto, a su sustitución, a la rebaja del precio o a la resolución del contrato, de acuerdo con lo previsto en este tÃ*tulo.
This basically means that you are entitled of 4 rights in case the product does not comply with the contract: product-fixing, sustitution, price discount or contract resolution.

I'm going to explain the 4 figures so you folks don't get lost into this legal BS:
a) Product-repair: as it says, to repair a product.
b) Sustitution: as it says.
c) Price discount: if part of the good you bought is defective, but you can and want to use it that way, you can ask for a reimburse for the part thats not working.
d) Contract resolution: as if the contract had never taken place IE full refund of what you paid.

----

Here comes the big deal:

Quote:
ArtÃ*culo 119. Reparación y sustitución del producto.

Si el producto no fuera conforme con el contrato, el consumidor y usuario podrá optar entre exigir la reparación o la sustitución del producto, salvo que una de estas dos opciones resulte objetivamente imposible o desproporcionada. (...)
This means that, if the good does not comply with the contract (aka doesn't work properly) you are give the choice between: product-repair or subsitution unless one of those options is much more expensive than the other one.

Also:

Quote:
ArtÃ*culo 120. Régimen jurÃ*dico de la reparación o sustitución del producto.

La reparación y la sustitución se ajustarán a las siguientes reglas:
(...)
f) Si la sustitución no lograra poner el producto en conformidad con el contrato, el consumidor y usuario podrá exigir la reparación del producto, salvo que esta opción resulte desproporcionada, la rebaja del precio o la resolución del contrato en los términos previstos en este capÃ*tulo.

These are the rules of the substitution:
f) If, once the substitution is done, the product fails to comply with the contract, the owner has the right to demand the product to be repaired, a discount on the price or the resolution of the contract.

Now, if we put all of this together, it means that the purchase contract, the one that states the product that is being traded, needs to be followed and, thus, you don't have to accept an inferior product because it doesn't comply with the stated product.

Thats why in Spain you don't have to accept an inferior product, and if you read it never mentions anything about money, you are entitled to get a product as good as the one you had OR to get a full-refund...but that refund only happens when its in the best intereset of the seller, as I mentioned (when you get a product for much less than its normal price: imagine getting a GTX590 for 100€, the seller would never ever do an RMA but he will refund you).

So, please, I would like to ask you not to talk about a delicate subject as law is SPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A DAMN CLUE ABOUT IT. You won't see me arguing about a law I don't know about: I can say wether I agree or not, but not wether its or not correct.
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