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post #51 of 117
I feel that the 6850 is a fair trade. All this talk about if you blow you Ferrari road racing it makes no sense, any manufacturer will not honor a warranty if you drove your car on to a track. Theres risks that apply when you benchmark and stress a GPU, and if you take those risk then you should take the consequences. At least their willing to send you something in return.

Its like getting an older car replaced, your original car was a premium model, leather seat, bigger motor, and a nice little sun roof. But you go out and pop a gasket racing. And now your complaint is that the newer model is a base model without any of the features yours had. Well if you factor in deprecation, and inflation they even out to the same price, and that is a fair deal.
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post #52 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post
...
I think that about sums it up.

And for those spouting crap about the EU etc - the law in the UK pretty much mirrors that, with a few different tweaks here and there. But the general gist is the same.
post #53 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post
Nope, that law is no longer in use.



http://www.consumo-inc.es/GuiaCons/l...007.htm#art105

----------------










The power of fail is cleary up into the air today. For all of those who just blatantly ignore what I've been posting once and again, here comes the legal and tedious precise answer you asked for. Take in mind my english is not as good as It would be needed to do such translations (specially considering our law are soooooooooooo ambiguous).

Here it comes:

http://www.consumo-inc.es/GuiaCons/l...007.htm#art105

What is in our intereset comes in the different articles that are part of the TÃTULO V, that I will quote and translate the better I can. Note that I will show them in an order that makes them easier to understand.

Lets start from the beginning:



This is the base of everything, but I'm not going to go that far as to explain it briefly:

a) The seller is required to provide goods that follow the specs provided in the contract.
b) The good must able to do what is intended to do in order to fulfill the contract.
c) The good must present the quality one could expect from such good in order to fulfill the contract.

Now, lets make a quick jump to the end of the chapter so we can clarify a few things before getting to the end of the matter




This means two things:
a) The seller is responsible to honor the warranty for the first 2 years of warranty (afterwards, if that product had extra warranty, it will be handeld by the distributor/producer).
b) During the first 6 months any problem you shall have with the product will be dealed with (unless proven otherwise) as if it was a fabric defect. After that 6 months period you may be asked to prove the origin of that deffect (note: I have yet to see a vendor demanding such thing, but such is the law).

Next:



This basically means that if its easier to deal with the distributor/seller instead of the vendor, you can do so no problem.

So, lets sum it up:
-You have 2 years of warranty, that shall be honored by the vendor or distributor, the one YOU decide.

Next:



This basically means that you are entitled of 4 rights in case the product does not comply with the contract: product-fixing, sustitution, price discount or contract resolution.

I'm going to explain the 4 figures so you folks don't get lost into this legal BS:
a) Product-repair: as it says, to repair a product.
b) Sustitution: as it says.
c) Price discount: if part of the good you bought is defective, but you can and want to use it that way, you can ask for a reimburse for the part thats not working.
d) Contract resolution: as if the contract had never taken place IE full refund of what you paid.

----

Here comes the big deal:



This means that, if the good does not comply with the contract (aka doesn't work properly) you are give the choice between: product-repair or subsitution unless one of those options is much more expensive than the other one.

Also:




These are the rules of the substitution:
f) If, once the substitution is done, the product fails to comply with the contract, the owner has the right to demand the product to be repaired, a discount on the price or the resolution of the contract.

Now, if we put all of this together, it means that the purchase contract, the one that states the product that is being traded, needs to be followed and, thus, you don't have to accept an inferior product because it doesn't comply with the stated product.

Thats why in Spain you don't have to accept an inferior product, and if you read it never mentions anything about money, you are entitled to get a product as good as the one you had OR to get a full-refund...but that refund only happens when its in the best intereset of the seller, as I mentioned (when you get a product for much less than its normal price: imagine getting a GTX590 for 100€, the seller would never ever do an RMA but he will refund you).

So, please, I would like to ask you not to talk about a delicate subject as law is SPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A DAMN CLUE ABOUT IT. You won't see me arguing about a law I don't know about: I can say wether I agree or not, but not wether its or not correct.
Laws and warranty's greatly change after the first 6 months.

Basic terms and conditions are the same throughout all of the EU.

Some countries have small difference here and there, Example being 2 yr minimum warranty in Spain, It's 6 years in the UK.

You have to realise that every 6 months the terms and rights of a warranty policy changes.

I can take a broken card back within 6 months and get a full refund, If I take it in a single day after that 6 month period I'm no longer entitled to a straight refund.

99% of all the stuff you posted applys to WITHIN the first 6 months...not after.. Making all what you posted pretty much useless.

And you also forget to mention that he's voided his warranty by fitting a water block..
Edited by scatteh316 - 4/13/11 at 10:20am
post #54 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatteh316 View Post
Some countries have small difference here and there, Example being 2 yr minimum warranty in Spain, It's 6 years in the UK.
There is no 6 year minimum warranty at all in UK law.

The Sale of Goods Act 1974 states that goods should be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose, and as such should last a reasonable length of time. For a cheap toy this could imply a reasonable warranty of 3 months, but an expensive item may be expected to last 10 years or more.

You have 6 years to make a claim however.
post #55 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatteh316 View Post
Laws and warranty's greatly change after the first 6 months.

Basic terms and conditions are the same though all of the EU.

Some countries have small difference here and there, Example being 2 yr minimum warranty in Spain, It's 6 years in the UK.

You have to realise that every 6 months the terms and rights of a warranty policy changes.

I can take a broken card back within 6 months and get a full refund, If I take it in a single day after that 6 month period I'm no longer entitled to a straight refund.

And you also forget to mention that he's voided his warranty by fitting a water block..
In Spain is not like that, I assure you. You are NEVER entitled to a full refund unless the good can't be repaired for good nor changed for a new one.

Also, if you buy a car and it breaks you CAN'T demand a new one as thats certainly a ton more expensive than fixing it.

A last point: I'm not sure about the specifics of the warranties in different goods, but I can tell you that I know every little detail from consumer (normally cheap goods) electronic goods: the warranty doesn't after the first 6 months because I have yet to see somebody asking me to demonstrate where the defect comes from.

So, for what is worth, in this case we have a product that has a warranty (yeah, it shouldn't, but thats not the topic isnt it?) and, based on our laws, he HAS to get a at least something as good as a 5870. As they said there are no left they will have to provided something not worse than a HD6950.
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post #56 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpatcher View Post
I feel that the 6850 is a fair trade. All this talk about if you blow you Ferrari road racing it makes no sense, any manufacturer will not honor a warranty if you drove your car on to a track. Theres risks that apply when you benchmark and stress a GPU, and if you take those risk then you should take the consequences. At least their willing to send you something in return.

Its like getting an older car replaced, your original car was a premium model, leather seat, bigger motor, and a nice little sun roof. But you go out and pop a gasket racing. And now your complaint is that the newer model is a base model without any of the features yours had. Well if you factor in deprecation, and inflation they even out to the same price, and that is a fair deal.
But he hasn't done anything that the card isn't built for. It's built for running GPU-intensive applications (what else would it run? ) and he ran one. He didn't overclock or anything, he just ran a 3D application that happens to stress the GPU.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scatteh316 View Post
Laws and warranty's greatly change after the first 6 months.

Basic terms and conditions are the same though all of the EU.

Some countries have small difference here and there, Example being 2 yr minimum warranty in Spain, It's 6 years in the UK.

You have to realise that every 6 months the terms and rights of a warranty policy changes.

I can take a broken card back within 6 months and get a full refund, If I take it in a single day after that 6 month period I'm no longer entitled to a straight refund.

And you also forget to mention that he's voided his warranty by fitting a water block..
No, laws aren't universal. The EU laws are the minimum and a country can then make their own rules as long as they don't go against EU laws AFAIK. Also, 6 years in UK must surely be a misunderstanding.

Anyway, that's irrelevant. No, your rights don't change every 6 months. They are the same for that 2 year period if that's what the law in your country says (from what I read in Prava's post, Danish and Spanish rules are very similar). Only when the 2 years are over do your rights change.
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post #57 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatteh316 View Post
Laws and warranty's greatly change after the first 6 months.

Basic terms and conditions are the same throughout all of the EU.

Some countries have small difference here and there, Example being 2 yr minimum warranty in Spain, It's 6 years in the UK.

You have to realise that every 6 months the terms and rights of a warranty policy changes.

I can take a broken card back within 6 months and get a full refund, If I take it in a single day after that 6 month period I'm no longer entitled to a straight refund.

99% of all the stuff you posted applys to WITHIN the first 6 months...not after.. Making all what you posted pretty much useless.

And you also forget to mention that he's voided his warranty by fitting a water block..
only with some companies do you void the warranty using a water block, and alot dont care UNLESS it caused the direct problem, which this didnt. His card is designed to be able to be used at 100% load, he used it at 100% load and it failed, thats not his problem, thats a DEFECT. Stop trying to be all high and mighty and blame the user for a defect that the manufacture is in control of.

When i was having temp troubles with my sapphire 4850x2 2gb, sapphire told me to take off the cooler, check the tim and replace it and if need be, THEY SENT ME LINKS TO A AFTERMARKET COOLER..granted this was after 3 RMA's, and over 7 months trying to get the card to not load over 100C anymore but you get the pic.
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post #58 of 117
Prava if you read my post again, I edited the link seconds after I posted, to what you posted now. Refresh the page my friend
    
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post #59 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by B!0HaZard View Post
But he hasn't done anything that the card isn't built for. It's built for running Anyway, that's irrelevant. No, your rights don't change every 6 months. They are the same for that 2 year period if that's what the law in your country says (from what I read in Prava's post, Danish and Spanish rules are very similar). Only when the 2 years are over do your rights change.
Of course they change, The way repairs/refunds and exchanges are handled is very difference after the first 6 months.

So you telling me If I buy a couple of ATI 6990's from Spain and they go faulty 18 months later and they can't repair or replace them I can have a straight refund of the full amount I paid?

NO.....

The only time you're entitled to a full refund is if the retailer offers it. You as a consumer can't flat out refuse a replacement to have a refund. It doesn't work that way.

After the first 6 months the retailer has more say over the consumer.

Consumer : Is my card fixed?
Retailer : No I'm sorry we were un-able to repair your card and can't replace it like-for-like as it's no longer in production. But we can offer you a brand new ATI 6850 to the current value of the 5870 that has broken.

CURRENT VALUE.... That's a very important word.

In other news I might buy a sports car in Spain, Run it to the ground and take it back in 12 months and tell them I want a full refund.

It doesn't work... I've spent enough time as a customer service assistant at PC World to know the laws.
post #60 of 117
Thanks for helping to clear it up jak3z and prava
    
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