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[IO9] Spacetime invisibility cloaks can hide entire events inside temporal voids - Page 4

post #31 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benladesh View Post
You slow down the speed of light for the observer, and thus he sees you as you were a minute ago, once you stop doing that, he sees you as you are after the passed minute.

i was wrong, you wouldn't age prematurely as you arn't travelling in time but really just changing what people are observing.

All in all this wouldn't even work. people would just see a black blob where you are because the light isn't getting the their eyes, from the speed of light to ~30mph, there wouldbe a space in between where there is no light.
Even worse, they see the image from AFTER you turn it off because the light is so slow that the ones from after its turned off overtake it in speed.
    
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post #32 of 139
Guys, that whole thing about "aging slower" is complete BS from science fiction.

Here's the reality. To an observer seeing something moving close to the speed of light, events inside that thing appear to be happening more slowly then events from the observer's stand point.

But to the person in the ship from his point of reference he isn't moving, everything around him is (don't bother to dispute this, its a fact, and I'm not going to waste my time explaining it because it would bore you before we got to the cool stuff).

So to the person on the ship events outside of the space ship appear to be happening more slowly then events inside of the ship.

That is called the theory of special relativity, it deals with relativity happening at high speeds and mostly constant velocity.


If you have two twins, and send one off in a space ship travelling at 97% the speed of light, and have the space ship travel to a far away planet and then pull a U-turn and return back, who is older? The one whom made the voyage, or the one whom stayed on earth?

The twin who made the voyage in the space ship is much older then the twin who stayed on earth. This is called the twin paradox.

This is reconciled with general relativity, it is relativity at high speeds with changing velocity.

In reality, that whole "you age slower in a fast space ship" thing is complete bull.

This is as close to being a fact as you can get. Do not waste our time by saying I am wrong, because it was the theories of special, and general relativity that made Einstein so famous.

These two theories are used frequently, they are right. I don't expect any of you who knew to this concept to really understand it after reading it, but it is true.

Before anyone can call BS and say this is wrong, know this. Einstein pioneered this theory, it has been supported by thousands of physicists, famous and not famous since its inception.
Edited by Singular1ty - 4/13/11 at 10:44am
    
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post #33 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
You've got in backwards.

Your ENVIRONMENT ages, you don't.

But this is light years into the future, literally. It requires perfecting light-speed travel first.
Umm, no it doesn't.

Please don't made predictions when it is woefully obvious that your knowledge of relativity is derived from science fiction and not fact.
    
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post #34 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benladesh View Post
If you are in the "bubble" that goes by quicker, you will age by a minute while the people outside of said "bubble" will age by a nanosecond. If you have a minute while others have a nanosecond, you're body will age accordingly. No?
No, that is completely wrong.
    
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post #35 of 139
Am I really the only one here who has something of a grasp of special relativity?

That was unexpected, I'd think there'd be at least a few electrical engineers in here.
    
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post #36 of 139
6 posts in a row, this must be a new record.

I misunderstood at first but then grasped it, so quoting something I said was wrong (in a later post) and saying it's wrong is trivial and doesn't make you appear smarter. It shows you didn't read through the thread correctly.

Furthermore, even if this is off topic. Mathematically, the more you approach the speed of light, the more time speeds up around you (but not for you). This is all theory and not fact but it cannot be proven wrong with modern science either. Science fiction may have used the theory and twisted it but there is a basis for it.
Edited by Benladesh - 4/13/11 at 10:54am
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post #37 of 139
Thread Starter 
Not sure where this comes in with what was said but, I'm pretty sure time itself does slow down the faster you go though.... I saw an article explaining that they put a clock on the ground and a clock in the sr-71 blackbird plane and fly one of its cycles that the clock from the plane will a thousandth of a second off compared to the one on the ground. Don't quote me on specifics of the experiment because I don't have the article.
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post #38 of 139
Omg..
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post #39 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benladesh View Post
6 posts in a row, this must be a new record.

I misunderstood at first but then grasped it, so quoting something I said was wrong (in a later post) and saying it's wrong is trivial and doesn't make you appear smarter. It shows you didn't read through the thread correctly.

Furthermore, even if this is off topic. Mathematically, the more you approach the speed of light, the more time speeds up around you (but not for you). This is all theory and not fact but it cannot be proven wrong with modern science either. Science fiction may have used the theory and twisted it but there is a basis for it.
I was mostly skipping around in reading. And I didn't say it was wrong because I didn't want to waste time explaining the mathmatics and experiments, its that I didn't have time.

Quote:
Mathematically, the more you approach the speed of light, the more time speeds up around you (but not for you).
Actually no, this is not the theory, this is the limited understanding of the theory which you possess. And I will explain below the problem with it. Basically you have it backwards. First, you do not approach the speed of light, the universe around you does (I explain this first). Second time does not speed up for things outside of your space ship, it slows down (I explain this a bit later).

Yes, theories can be disproven. But unless you are prepared to disprove this theory, which I doubt you are, then there is no point in you mentioning this fact.

The basis is very slim.

The first concept you will want to have to help you understand (this is what my reply would have been if I had time, so Im remedying it right now, hope you accep tthis apology) is that there is such a thing as "inertial frames of reference".

Two people moving at the same speed are in one inertial frame of reference, another person moving 50 mph faster are in another inertial frame of reference.

The first rule is that there is no physical reason to prefer one frame of reference to another. You will mathmatically prefer one frame of reference depending on the problem at hand.


Now then, there is an equation that defines the time dilation effect. In the equation the variables are this "time", "Proper time", "velocity".

Think of each variable like a knob on a machine, by changing one or two you can effect the outcome.

Proper time is the time taken from an observer that is not in motion. The problem is that any observer can be the proper observer. If a person is moving at a constant rate, relative to them, they aren't the ones moving but the universe around them is.

Think about it and it makes sense. You see, you think you are stationary right now as your reading this. But in reality, if I had a video camera somewhere in the solar system that wasn't moving then it would look like you were flying around the sun, very much in motion.

So the question is, if one person is moving in reference to the other person, and the other person is moving relative to the first, then who is right?

Simple, both of them are right and both are wrong. That means you decide which observer is the proper observer for an arbitrary reason.

Here are two more rules for special relativity that for now I want you to assume as fact, yes I can derive them, but its time consuming and hard to write here. But trust me, the two of them are right:

A ruler in motion is smaller then a ruler at rest.

A clock in motion runs slower then a clock at rest.

The thing is that the way they use it in scifi is basically a twisted and perverted version.

They basically state that there is an inertial frame of reference that is preferred and one that isnt. They state that the inertial frame of reference of the planet is preferred to the one of the space ship. This breaks the fundamental rules of relativity.

So basically, they are saying that the universe does not move relative to the person in the space ship, but the person in the space ship is moving even from within his own frame of reference.

And here's one last little tidbit, food for thought. The guys that write these books are english majors, they don't study advanced physics. I am studying to become an aerospace engineer, so I do have to learn and understand this stuff as part of my course load.

Understanding of physics:

Physics majors > Scientists and chemists > Engineer majors > Doctors and surgeons > inanimate objects > English majors.
Edited by Singular1ty - 4/13/11 at 11:54am
    
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post #40 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by killeraxemannic View Post
Not sure where this comes in with what was said but, I'm pretty sure time itself does slow down the faster you go though.... I saw an article explaining that they put a clock on the ground and a clock in the sr-71 blackbird plane and fly one of its cycles that the clock from the plane will a thousandth of a second off compared to the one on the ground. Don't quote me on specifics of the experiment because I don't have the article.
Your right about the results, but your off due to the causes.

If you were on the ground while they were conducting the experiment and had some sort of special camera right next to you with which you could magnify the image of the black bird so much that you could see the clock on it then yes it would look as though it were going slower.

BUT, if the pilot were to do the same thing but instead magnify the image of you in order to read a clock sitting right next to you, the pilot would see that YOUR clock is running slow and his is normal.

That is what special relativity is.

"But singular1ty, your wrong because when he landed his clock was still slow."

Well I think you are wrong on this result of the experiment, actually I think if you find the experiment you will find it the other way around, that his clock was a thousandth of a second faster then our normal clocks. The reason is due to general relativity.

The reason I am positive of this is because if you were right then that would cause a whole slew of problems with our understanding of the twin paradox and general relativity.

But basically, the act of motion does not slow down or speed up time. But the act of acceleration or deceleration can to some degree.

Also, in hindsight the speed of an SR-71 does not come withing spitting distance of the speed of light at which point the effects become obvious. There is a higher degree of chance that the results were not due to relativity but rather the sheer stress of travel in an SR-71.
    
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