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3 Months have passed: What is the verdict on Sandy Bridge'ss max safe Vcore? - Page 2

post #11 of 20
I put my personal max at 1.38v, since I'm not a hardcore overclocker who can plunk down another $225 if my 2500K lets out the magic smoke. I ended up stopping at 4.6GHz @ 1.335v because going up to 47x or 48x required a pretty large jump in voltage (I could probably get 48x stable around 1.40v or so). That much of a jump for relatively little return just isn't worth it to me. I don't doubt, however, that 1.4xv is a safe range, since a lot of people are running 1.45v+ at high stress loads (like Folding 24/7) with no degredation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post
Intel Data Sheet lists the VID range from 0.250v to 1.520v - http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/324641.pdf page 78
There have been plenty of arguments previously regarding "VID Range" vs "vCore maximum". If you look at a lot of older Intel CPU datasheets, they list a VID Range along with an absolute maximum vCore value. It's possible Intel just hasn't decided on what number they'd like to pick yet.
post #12 of 20
I think it depends on the individual characteristics of the chip. Some chips are leakier than others.

I think if you have to add 0.1v to go up 100-200Mhz then you are pushing too hard for long term durability of the chip.
post #13 of 20
Though there's no way to know yet, tons of people are reporting happily running along on 1.5V. The chips seem happy as long as they're adequately cooled, but I suppose we'll see in a years time. I always say the lower the better, but for now I'm using 1.5 as my threshold for safe running and 1.45 as my threshold for 24/7.
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post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post
I put my personal max at 1.38v, since I'm not a hardcore overclocker who can plunk down another $225 if my 2500K lets out the magic smoke. I ended up stopping at 4.6GHz @ 1.335v because going up to 47x or 48x required a pretty large jump in voltage (I could probably get 48x stable around 1.40v or so). That much of a jump for relatively little return just isn't worth it to me. I don't doubt, however, that 1.4xv is a safe range, since a lot of people are running 1.45v+ at high stress loads (like Folding 24/7) with no degredation.



There have been plenty of arguments previously regarding "VID Range" vs "vCore maximum". If you look at a lot of older Intel CPU datasheets, they list a VID Range along with an absolute maximum vCore value. It's possible Intel just hasn't decided on what number they'd like to pick yet.
Well here's another thing...intel has been testing these chips for awhile way before release. if 1.52v was so dangerous, it wouldnt even be on the datasheet. It's been out for awhile, and they havent revised it.
    
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post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post

There have been plenty of arguments previously regarding "VID Range" vs "vCore maximum". If you look at a lot of older Intel CPU datasheets, they list a VID Range along with an absolute maximum vCore value. It's possible Intel just hasn't decided on what number they'd like to pick yet.
You cant argue VID range, that is the range of the default voltage needed to run the cpu at stock..

Unless you want to take the word of a guy on an internet forum over the data sheet released by the cpu manufacturer..

The data sheet is fact, all else is opinion..

My opinion, 1.45v for 24/7 use is safe...
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post #16 of 20
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=...4&postcount=39

i thought 1.5v+ was safe at first, but i dont think so anymore

my personal experience is similar to that guy's, folding for 2 month+ at 4.9ghz 1.49v, then one day it became unstable so i had to drop the OC down to 4.7-4.8 ~1.4v ... mine is on water too, chip has never seen temps above 70c

i think the people who are running 1.5v "fine" don't fold so its probably degrading much slower, folding is 24/7 100% load on the cpu
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post
You cant argue VID range, that is the range of the default voltage needed to run the cpu at stock..

Unless you want to take the word of a guy on an internet forum over the data sheet released by the cpu manufacturer..

The data sheet is fact, all else is opinion..

My opinion, 1.45v for 24/7 use is safe...
Wow can you contradict yourself anymore?

If indeed the data sheet is fact and default voltage needed to run the cpu at stock is 1.520. Then 1.520 with an OC is safe. Now if I saw a chip running at 1.520 for stock I'd be returning that thing so dam fast it wouldn't be funny.

People have been running their OC for months at 1.52 with no problems as of yet.
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post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post
1.35v, 1.38v, 1.4v, 1.45v, 1.5v, 1.52v. Pick your poison. There are people who would argue any of these numbers.
haha +1, that's exactly what i was going to write.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kick View Post
Well here's another thing...intel has been testing these chips for awhile way before release. if 1.52v was so dangerous, it wouldnt even be on the datasheet. It's been out for awhile, and they havent revised it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acjed View Post
You cant argue VID range, that is the range of the default voltage needed to run the cpu at stock..

Unless you want to take the word of a guy on an internet forum over the data sheet released by the cpu manufacturer..

The data sheet is fact, all else is opinion..

My opinion, 1.45v for 24/7 use is safe...
VID Range is not maximum safe vCore. You can argue that the VID Range goes up to 1.52v all day (and I won't disagree!), but you can't argue that 1.52v is an absolutely safe vCore maximum. This is why I pointed out that in previous datasheets the two have been separate values. Take a look at this post.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bratas View Post
Wow can you contradict yourself anymore?

If indeed the data sheet is fact and default voltage needed to run the cpu at stock is 1.520. Then 1.520 with an OC is safe. Now if I saw a chip running at 1.520 for stock I'd be returning that thing so dam fast it wouldn't be funny.

People have been running their OC for months at 1.52 with no problems as of yet.
With that argument, you're BOTH contradicting yourselves.

First of all, the VID of the CPU is based on Intel's own calibration, on what the CPU's need to run stable at their default and turbo multipliers, with the STOCK heatsink and fan, at up to the tjunction point before thermal throttling begins (~98C).

Two CPU's can have completely different VIDs, and also can give off different heat, even at the exact same set vcore.

No CPU will EVER have a default VID of 1.52v at stock voltages. Ever.

The VID is basically calibrated so that the CPU can be fully operational at stock and guaranteed turbo multipliers (e.g. 34-38 on 2600k), and also that the CPU can be functional at higher multipliers. The default VID for the chip will increase based on its current multiplier. The CPU should be able to at least complete its power on self test and make it into the BIOS, with the default VID (provided you aren't at a multiplier wall).

Now, what happens when you start getting to high multipliers means that stability is no longer guaranteed. For example, if a CPU has a VID of 1.39v at 5 ghz, and you didn't pass the MP wall, you should be able to POST into the BIOS at 1.39v. That doesn't mean that the CPU will be STABLE if you put a load on it. But the BIOS itself should run.

Also, the presence of vdroop throws a monkey wrench into the works; while the CPU may be stable at 1.39v in the BIOS, if vdroop drops the vcore down to 1.30v at 5 ghz, the CPU might not even complete POST.

So yes, the VID is based on VRD 12, and is calibrated for each multiplier, but ONLY guaranteed for standard operating speeds, e.g. 3.3 to 3.9 ghz. But the CPU can still request a higher VID--UP to 1.52v, at higher multipliers.

Intel knows that people overclock, and they expect that people who will put that vcore into the CPU, will have sufficient cooling to handle it.

Also, high vcore increases the chances of degradation, of course, but this does NOT mean that low vcore PREVENTS it completey. There have been 2500k's that were able to load windows at 1.29v and 5 ghz, without stress testing, on the very first boot, then needed 1.31v on the very next boot, then 1.33 about an hour later. Then stabilized at 1.35v without more degradation.

So yes, it varies from CPU to CPU. Virtually ALL cpu's will degrade SLIGHTLY--also known as "break in", from the very first boot you have them on, to the very next boot, at their maximum speeds, with the lowest possible vcores. This "break-in" happens to everyone. But people don't usually know what their ABSOLUTE LOWEST possible vcore for stability is, at a high overclock right away, so they will possibly have a little degradation without knowing it, as the speed they're running at is already unstable anyway...
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