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Is my mouse pad good enough? - Page 4

post #31 of 42
That was a laugh of a read. Some players PREFER and enjoy higher friction, they end up using the extra friction like a drag brake for more control instead of being forced to physically stop the mouse at the end of your swipe.

Stop being ignorant by claiming all cloth pads suck and that the lowest friction possible is better for everyone.

It's a preference and no amount of nerd is going to change that.
post #32 of 42
If I may chip in here, I had decided to go for a cloth mouse pad. Not only did I want to refrain from spending £20 on a mouse pad, but I didn't want to be stuck with a mouse which I'd need to lock up my entire forearm in order to control decently. It's just a Steelseries QcK mini, but it gives me control while still feeling great when I decide to swipe everywhere. A fair amount of friction is created when I press it into the pad, but that's a habit which I'm forcing out of my system. It's not good for my arm/wrist and it's certainly not a good way to use the mouse in any situation (at least, for me).
    
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post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Italics.


Having to adopt to two different friction conditions while only one friction is being applied to your movement will greatly increase your percision and accuracy.

Your Opinion, but I don't agree with it as it's a general matter of preference.


Having a lower friction surface will require less work to move. With the same force and distance you travel, cm per 360, you will go off the pad, of course. Kinda obvious.

And it's kinda obvious that less friction will lower the control/drag I have a my desired inches/360, but I don't really want to argue with you if you won't acknowledge that.

Adjusting your dpi to account to the exact same conditions will give you the exact same feel as you currently have without having to do more work. Longer gaming sessions with less restraints is a good thing in most gamers eyes.
The change in DPI is as low as 20-50 DPI and if that. Very small. Or even increase the weight by a few grams.

We're not talking about DPI here. That's a subject you don't want to get into a debate with me about.

Increasing mouse weight? wait what? You want to create more friction/drag now? LOL

Sorry to disappoint, but I find a majority of weighted mice to have a horrible center of gravity, be nose or bottom heavy, and most likely use an off centered sensor placement, but that again is another subject I don't really want to discuss since we're veering off topic.

/Opinion.

You wouldn't, as stated above. You will cover the exact same distance with the exact same 360 you performed on your screen. Less friction, less work, more percision, more flexibility, etc. Let alone, for an FPS, you should never go over 1200 DPI. Most pro players are around 400-600. Having a more percise sensor simply improves the percision. In reality you do not want to play anywhere remotely close to what the mouse is designed for.

As I said... Less friction at my current inches/360=less control= worse spray, recoil, etc. It isn't that hard to understand, but I believe you're taking your own views and playing styles and forming an opinion around them as am I when I say that cloth surfaces with moderate friction allow me to control my cursor better at a higher sensitivity(" or CM/360). It's not you're right, I'm wrong, or vice versa.


Again, DPI is irrelevant to this discussion. Talking about never going over a certain amount is generally false and ultimately relies on preference and actual knowledge as it is beneficial to certain playing styles such as a high sensitivity wrist based claw grip. Most professional gamers may only use 400-600 DPI, but they're also utilizing much smaller resolutions to compensate for pixel accuracy which you happen to leave out. Oh and most tend to prefer cloth pads, but it dosen't matter right? In reality, you play with whatever setting or DPI you feel comfortable with, not what someone says is good or bad. Some sensors actually perform worse if they're not utlizing DPI settings they were designed for.. Take the DA 3.5G for example. Perfect control and malfunction rates are much lower at it's 450-900 DPI settings. The ADNS-3888 and 3090 were designed for 1800 and 3500 DPI.


Ok.
Edited by Skylit - 4/17/11 at 7:11pm
post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOmega View Post
So I suppose youve never heard Razer glass mouse "pads". The bottoms are painted/coated to create that reflective surface.

And I beg to differ on the coefficients of drag. Over the surfave area of foot of the mouse, a cloths pad physically contacts it less. More friction than wood? You cant be serious. You must be thinking of projectiles passing through objects rather than gliding across them.
Mice gliding across a surface is similar to rolling resistance with tires. The greater the contact patch, the greater the resistance.
._. Drag? lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post
Ok.
Frankly, it really sounds like I'm talking to a copy pasta from a google search on gaming mice.
post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
._. Drag? lol.



Frankly, it really sounds like I'm talking to a copy pasta from a google search on gaming mice.
LOL. I take it you don't visit the mice section often? It's k bro, you can't talk out of you're ass in every subform.

Copying and pasting from my own posts and knowledge. F YEAH.
Edited by Skylit - 4/17/11 at 7:49pm
post #36 of 42
Domino, listen to the people here. There are very obvious benefits to using rougher and smoother pads. Additionally, soft pads are probably easier on the mouse's feet, which was another factor in my choice--my rough, cheapass IKEA desk was already going to town on my G9x's feet, so I wanted to ensure that they don't wear any further.

Either way, there is a lot to be said for a surface which offers at least a modicum of resistance. Again, I appreciate that I can loosen my arm, without worrying that my mouse will skate more than I'd like it to while I'm trying to aim. It feels reassuring for me.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
T7250 Shill 8600M GT, 256MB VRAM 2GB, 1GB (Kingston rebrand) 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
WD Scorpio Blue Windows 7 Ultimate, 64-bit 1440*900, glossy Surprisingly solid for a notebook 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech G9x steelseries QcK mini 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
T7250 Shill 8600M GT, 256MB VRAM 2GB, 1GB (Kingston rebrand) 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
WD Scorpio Blue Windows 7 Ultimate, 64-bit 1440*900, glossy Surprisingly solid for a notebook 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech G9x steelseries QcK mini 
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post #37 of 42
mouse pads really dont matter
I have a $2 mouse pad that is 3 years old now.. and I still got into grand masters for North American server lol...
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post
LOL. I take it you don't visit the mice section often? It's k bro, you can't talk out of you're ass in every subform.
Knowledge? You make a thread about sensors and you conclude you know all about mice? Might want to step down from that wooden horse of yours.

I can't see where I'm talking out my ass. Can you show me where? Have you any clue about friction or how it functions? A sensor is a sensor, but its relation to friction caused by teflon on numerous surfaces has no relation what so ever.

The physical contact points is a very BASIC, and by basic, I mean BASIC, understanding of friction. The purpose of high quality feet is to not only to increase its lifespan, but decrease its resistance on a said surface.

Does your mouse have any sort of control over its own movement? Non what so ever. Your hand is what moves the mouse. Increasing friction on a surface increases unneeded forces that your hand must accound for. If you have adjusted to a said playing style, changing your mat will cause you to change your DPI settings to maintain similar control or increase its weight to increase its friction. But least the better...for precisions sake.

Quote:
Copying and pasting from my own posts and knowledge. F YEAH
Frankly, you can find everything you state on google.

Fact of the matter is, you barely see any professional player wip out a high friction surface with an extremely ridiculous high DPI. But then again, my experience in tourniments doesn't count right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMGDeed View Post
Domino, listen to the people here. There are very obvious benefits to using rougher and smoother pads. Additionally, soft pads are probably easier on the mouse's feet, which was another factor in my choice--my rough, cheapass IKEA desk was already going to town on my G9x's feet, so I wanted to ensure that they don't wear any further.

Either way, there is a lot to be said for a surface which offers at least a modicum of resistance. Again, I appreciate that I can loosen my arm, without worrying that my mouse will skate more than I'd like it to while I'm trying to aim. It feels reassuring for me.
Well I bet people understand what sort of desk were talking about. Obviously if you have a cheap desk its going to turn bad results. But from my understanding of the physics behind this, and the countless years of gaming and competitive play, cloth pads are redonculus for good play. Especially when they deform while your sliding your mouse about in a middle of a competitive match.

But this discussion is beginning to turn into petty no value insults and no meaning labels. Moving on.
Edited by Domino - 4/17/11 at 10:49pm
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Knowledge? You make a thread about sensors and you conclude you know all about mice? Might want to step down from that wooden horse of yours.
Tell me, where did I conclude that I know all about mice? You're the one who left a remark and accused or assumed that I'm copying and pasting info I found off a freaking google search, while I've actually gained specific knowledge in this field over a course of 2 years. I don't know everything and I'm sure as hell not claiming that because I personally think bullveyr knows heck of a lot more than I do, but at least I don't pop up in a sub form claiming such and such sucks and that a frictionless glide is always going to be "better". I never said you were wrong, but you're trying to defend yourself against a matter of sheer preference. Yes, that actually means that some people will prefer and may even do better with more friction. Shocking?

Yeah, sure I mentioned that "you must not visit the mouse section often", but what do you honestly expect when you're accusing me of "googling" of basic knowledge I've gained over time?

Quote:
I can't see where I'm talking out my ass. Can you show me where? Have you any clue about friction or how it functions? A sensor is a sensor, but its relation to friction caused by teflon on numerous surfaces has no relation what so ever.
You were going into matters that literally had nothing to do with the subject. I don't even know why you're asking me about friction or how it functions when you can't simply understand that there is no right answer to whether high or low friction is better. I only brought up sensors because YOU mentioned that you shouldn't quote on quote "play anywhere remotely close to what the mouse is designed for".

Quote:
The physical contact points is a very BASIC, and by basic, I mean BASIC, understanding of friction. The purpose of high quality feet is to not only to increase its lifespan, but decrease its resistance on a said surface.
Okay, I'm lost, when did we start talking about mouse feet all of a sudden? If you want, I'll mention that hard surfaces eat away teflon feet much faster than any generic cloth surface
Quote:
Does your mouse have any sort of control over its own movement? Non what so ever. Your hand is what moves the mouse. Increasing friction on a surface increases unneeded forces that your hand must accound for. If you have adjusted to a said playing style, changing your mat will cause you to change your DPI settings to maintain similar control or increase its weight to increase its friction. But least the better...for precisions sake.
Contradiction much?
Quote:
"Let alone, for an FPS, you should never go over 1200 DPI. Most pro players are around 400-600."
I wouldn't be talking about precision when you're basically telling me and others than low DPI is always going to be better without considering or mentioning other factors such as screen resolution, field of view, sensitivity, and even playing style. A higher DPI count will increase precision, but it's your job to research and understand that it has nothing to do with personal abilities such as aim and control.

For a better understanding, here's a picture I "google'd" for "accuracy vs precision" OH NOES.




And there you go again claiming that minimal friction is "better"
.

Quote:
Frankly, you can find everything you state on google.
That's cool, but there's no need to assume I'm googling crap I already know.

Quote:
Fact of the matter is, you barely see any professional player wip out a high friction surface with an extremely ridiculous high DPI. But then again, my experience in tourniments doesn't count right?
I see tons of Quake/CS/TF2 players using a moderately high friction pads left and right. I also see plenty of real gamers using whatever settings they feel best with, but you seem bent on thinking that higher DPI is bad just because some sponsored gamers use settings they've had since the early 2000s. Yeah, lets not mention the screen resolution and sensitivity most play at.

As for Tournaments, I don't really care what you're past experience is when you don't even understand how DPI works. I didn't claim that low DPI is bad, I didn't claim that high dpi is good, rather the answer is "enough" opposed to more or less. It isn't a one size fit's all situation as were all different.

I could litterally write an essay on how DPI relates to screen resolution, fov, sensitivity, and playing style but I simply don't have the time. I credit injx and others on esreality for the valuable info and equations.

Quote:
But this discussion is beginning to turn into petty no value insults and no meaning labels.
If you say sooooo.

Look, there was also a point where I also thought my opinions were right and other people were sheer idiots, but you have look at the big picture in life and realize that sometimes there is no right or wrong to certain things.

Nachoz
: I'm sorry for this little off topic discussion.
Edited by Skylit - 4/18/11 at 12:08pm
post #40 of 42
I have not read the whole thread, but its definitely up to personal preference.

Sure there are some sensor/pad combinations you should avoid simply cos the sensor has issues on that particular surface, but other then that it is whatever you prefer (possibly depending on playstyle). Some people like more grip and control, while others prefer as little friction as possible.

Above all else, being good at games like FPS is 95% practice, 5 % everything else. Whatever you use, you will get used to it through muscle memory and your hand remembers the exact amount of force needed to move the mouse etc. A lot of times people mistake "personal preference" simply for "whatever they are used to". Switching any gaming peripheral, even a mouse pad, requires your hand to sort of recalibrate itself till you are completely used to it again. That is why most gamers prefer to stick to what they are used to and buy gear that accommodates their style and what they are used to, rather then getting used to new gear.

If you wanna do well, stick with 1 decent mat that has good tracking with the sensor you use and play the game instead of debating how this or that mat gives you that theoretical 0.1% edge. I assure you its the shortest route to success. It is true that there are some type of pads and some types of mice that show up more in tournaments. But you will always find people rockin their own unique preference and being able to keep up, until they get a sponsor lol, then they all use razer.
Edited by kazuyamishima - 4/18/11 at 5:13am
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