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post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Eiht View Post
What you mean by undervolt RAM?
There are RAMs that need lower volts (low voltage RAM).
Anyway to run the memory @higher clocks you need more volts.

This.
So 1066 is the highest stock frequency for RAM?

I was looking on the intel site for the suggested RAM voltages and couldn't find it. This was the closest info I could find:

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52210


Quote:
There are great links to guides to overclock any of the common processors. Make sure your read these over very carefully. Join a forum on your processor, ask alot of questions to the folks there.
Yes, but I've noticed that in most of the Sandy Bridge overclocking guides I've read, the RAM doesn't receive much attention.

In older overclocking guides, there was a lot of information about "CPU:RAM ratios", but in the Sandy Bridge guides, it seems that the CPU is overclocked generally independent of RAM.

Are CPU:RAM ratios no longer important on Sandy Bridge systems? Since the FSB on Sandy Bridge processors is locked, I'd assume you'd have to OC both components through their respective multipliers. So what are important specs to look for in RAM for a Sandy Bridge system, then? Obviously the voltage limitations, but anything else?

I've heard that it's important to get RAM that has a frequency that can be achieved evenly through the FSB, and since SB's FSB is locked at 100, frequencies that can be evenly divided by 100. Is there any truth to that?
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post #12 of 29
Don't know too much sandy bridge specific info yet, but have read before that ddr3 memory according to JEDEC standards must be able to withstand up to 1.85V before incurring damage to the memory modules (nothing about cpu & don't remember the source). On x58 I've run memory up to 1.9V for short periods.

Sandy is supposed to be rated for 1.5V memory, & read that it can be safely run up to 1.58V (again no source, read that here on OCN somewhere). On my 2500k rig I usually run the memory at ~1.65V, gone up to 1.74V for short periods but haven't used it long enough to say if there is any damage to anything, nothing noticeable yet at least.
With SB you are pretty much stuck to overclocking memory with the memory divider, so 1066, 1333, 1600, 1866 & 2133. You can adjust it a small amount with the bclk, but memory options are more limited than previous chipset generations.
    
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post #13 of 29
too many double post from me today, gotta cut back on the coffee.
    
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post #14 of 29
Rokabud this quote from me came from
xxbassplayerxx
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The stock speeds of your RAM can be considered as o.c`ed if you like it this way.
Since the producer of the RAM sells it @this (e.g. 1600MHz) stock speed the producers have tested that they are stable
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post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtW 420 View Post
Don't know too much sandy bridge specific info yet, but have read before that ddr3 memory according to JEDEC standards must be able to withstand up to 1.85V before incurring damage to the memory modules (nothing about cpu & don't remember the source). On x58 I've run memory up to 1.9V for short periods.

Sandy is supposed to be rated for 1.5V memory, & read that it can be safely run up to 1.58V (again no source, read that here on OCN somewhere). On my 2500k rig I usually run the memory at ~1.65V, gone up to 1.74V for short periods but haven't used it long enough to say if there is any damage to anything, nothing noticeable yet at least.
With SB you are pretty much stuck to overclocking memory with the memory divider, so 1066, 1333, 1600, 1866 & 2133. You can adjust it a small amount with the bclk, but memory options are more limited than previous chipset generations.
Thanks This actually relates to a question I posted in another thread:

Quote:
Hmm this has me even more confused. I thought both the CPU and RAM operated off the FSB, and achieved different speeds via their independent multipliers.

I thought the FSB=BLCK. Is this not true? I thought the base clock speed of the CPU was the speed at which both the CPU and RAM operated before multiplier. In some overclocking guides I've read they explain that its best to achieve the goal speed by having a higher FSB and a lower multiplier; so that while your CPU would operate at the same speed if you used a lower FSB and higher multiplier, it would be able to communicate with the RAM faster because of the higher FSB. What's happened since to change that?
Does this mean the only three factors involved with RAM overclocking (besides temperature) is the voltage, frequency and timings? You don't have to compare it to the CPU whatsoever? There are no specific ratios of CPU to RAM speed that would provide better performance? No "sweet spots"?

And about the locked BLCK on SB systems, would increasing the BLCK on Sandy Bridge rather than the multiplier still yield better results if it were possible? Why was the BLCK locked in the first place then? Would it not be better to overclock through that then the multiplier?

Thanks.
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post #16 of 29
"Official" voltages, "safe" voltages, required voltages, and reasonable voltages may all be different numbers.

Officially, no DDR3 ICs are rated above 1.5v for their nominal voltage, and all are required to handle 1.575v long term. However, all DDR3 ICs are required to withstand 1.975v for (very) short periods without permanent damage.

In practicality, safe voltages will differ, and this will depend on many factors. Some early DDR3 ICs will handle 2v all day and night without issue. Other ICs will fail at 1.6v, if used for prolonged periods.

Much DDR3, especially those that are rated for 1.65v, or that are otherwise outside of JEDEC spec, is essentially binned and warranted for a certain OC by the manufacturer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokabud View Post
And about the locked BLCK on SB systems, would increasing the BLCK on Sandy Bridge rather than the multiplier still yield better results if it were possible? Why was the BLCK locked in the first place then? Would it not be better to overclock through that then the multiplier?
No.

BCLK, in and of itself is irrelevant. It's not a front-side bus, or any bus at all. It's just a reference for multipliers to work off.

This has been standard for AMD since the first Athlon 64s and for Intels since the original core i7.

If CPU, uncore, and memory speeds are the same, it does not matter what BCLK is used to reach those speeds, performance will remain the same.

BCLK was "locked" because it's simpler to tie all the buses to it (allowing asynchronous clocks requires multiple clock generators or the addition of many PLLs to separate clock domains), and because it allows Intel to charge a modest premium for CPUs capable of significant OCing. It also prevents market cannibalization because all the K series CPUs are fairly high-end ones. The days of buying 50-100 dollar CPUs and matching the performance of a 300+ dollar chip are over.
Edited by Blameless - 4/16/11 at 4:09pm
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post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Eiht View Post
Rokabud this quote from me came from
xxbassplayerxx
a respectable member of the OCN society.
The stock speeds of your RAM can be considered as o.c`ed if you like it this way.
Since the producer of the RAM sells it @this (e.g. 1600MHz) stock speed the producers have tested that they are stable
That's what it seems like to me. Looking at the stock specs of RAM, as the frequency increases, the timings loosen and the voltages increase. It's like the manufacturer is just overclocking RAM and not making better or worse models.

And that's why I'm so confused about what to look for.

Quote:
"Official" voltages, "safe" voltages, required voltages, and reasonable voltages may all be different numbers.

Officially, no DDR3 ICs are rated above 1.5v for their nominal voltage, and all are required to handle 1.575v long term. However, all DDR3 ICs are required to withstand 1.975v for (very) short periods without permanent damage.

In practicality, safe voltages will differ, and this will depend on many factors. Some early DDR3 ICs will handle 2v all day and night without issue. Other ICs will fail at 1.6v, if used for prolonged periods.

Much DDR3, especially those that are rated for 1.65v, or that are otherwise outside of JEDEC spec, is essentially binned and warranted for a certain OC by the manufacturer.
My RAM's specs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231303) list 1.65V. So far from what I've heard that's pretty high for use on a Sandy Bridge system. I'd like to be able to OC the RAM, if only for the experience, but it looks like with what I have now I have no headroom.
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post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
No.

BCLK, in and of itself is irrelevant. It's not a front-side bus, or any bus at all. It's just a reference for multipliers to work off.

This has been standard for AMD since the first Athlon 64s and for Intels since the original core i7.

If CPU, uncore, and memory speeds are the same, it does not matter what BCLK is used to reach those speeds, performance will remain the same.

BCLK was "locked" because it's simpler to tie all the buses to it (allowing asynchronous clocks requires multiple clock generators or the addition of many PLLs to separate clock domains), and because it allows Intel to charge a modest premium for CPUs capable of significant OCing. It also prevents market cannibalization because all the K series CPUs are fairly high-end ones. The days of buying 50-100 dollar CPUs and matching the performance of a 300+ dollar chip are over.
Ohh I see, so the BLCK is just one factor used to achieve an OC, it doesn't hold any significance unless coupled with a multiplier to yield CPU speed?

Then what is the FSB? Where has it gone? Is it still manipulated when overclocking?

+rep everyone sorry if any of this sounds stupid
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post #19 of 29
The FSB = baseclock (bclk), it is much different now in the Sandy Bridge systems than previous intel systems. Before when the cpu multi was maxed out overclocking was done by increasing the bclk, with SB the bclk is basically locked to 100Mhz & the overclocking is done by the multi.
You can still increase/decrease the bclk from 100 to change the memory & clockspeed, but is much more limited (maybe 10 either way max, 90 - 110), I've changed mine from 100 to 104.3 for some benching before, but don't really know yet if there are any dangers in leaving it overclocked for more than for short term testing.
    
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post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokabud View Post
Ohh I see, so the BLCK is just one factor used to achieve an OC, it doesn't hold any significance unless coupled with a multiplier to yield CPU speed?

Then what is the FSB? Where has it gone? Is it still manipulated when overclocking?

+rep everyone sorry if any of this sounds stupid
CPUs prior to the integration of the IMC use the FSB to connect the chipset to the CPU. Since everything was connected to the chipset (memory, AGP/PCI/PCI-E/DMI buses, other CPUs, all of it), the performance of this bus was often the determining factor in overall system performance.

There was obviously a clock generator that set the reference/base clock, but since the FSB was directly linked to it with a fixed ratio, there was almost never a reason to distinguish between the two, so FSB and reference clock became synonymous.

In modern CPUs, there is no front side bus. The memory connects directly to an on-die memory controller, and a separate bus (hypertransport, QPI, or DMI) connects the much simplified chipset to the CPU. On the newest CPUs, even the primary PCI-E bus is integrated. There is still a reference clock, but since it's not tied to any single bus, calling it the FSB is a fairly serious misnomer.

So we've gone from one pipe carrying all data, to different paths for most everything. The performance of the chipset to CPU connection has become much less of an issue now that memory traffic is independent of it.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Memory › Where to find max voltages?