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Warning: XFX's silent revision on the 6970 - Page 14

post #131 of 234
Wish I would have seen this a week ago!! I ran into this problem with my block I bought. Had to buy a revision 2!!

Here is my thread:
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/988421-help-wrong-block-my-6970-a.html
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post #132 of 234
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum Reality;13139875 
@TigerLord: I have no issue with your issue with XFX over switching their design.

What I do have an issue with is, you were asked as a favor not to reveal something by an employee and you went and did it anyway. Your beef's with the company, not this one guy, right?

The problem is that that they wanted me to shut up about the issue, rather than inform consumers so they did not make the same mistake of thinking they are ordering a reference PCB and getting something else. As it's been pointed out multiple times, the problem isn't with XFX shipping out a revised PCB, it's doing so while advertising the card as reference (ie. bios switch, back plate, quality smt components, speaker and the AMD logo on the PCB above the PCI-E lane). You order what you think is a reference PCB, everything indicates so (from model number, to packaging, to stickers on packaging, pictures, etc.) but you only find out once you open the box.

Than rather than apologize and saying "we will inform our valued customers of the change so this situation does not arise again", they wanted a quick under the table fix, and tried to blame retailers instead. You don't have a problem with that? All good then, you can move on. But I did, and others do as well. People around here are mostly literate enough to judge the facts and decide whether they agree with such practices. I can personally weight evidence and set bias aside, so I'm sure other people can too.

The trolls are insinuating that because my motives for posting this thread might be petty, XFX's actions are A-OK. Which is hilarious in its own way, because they've all side stepped the valid arguments and resorted to immature comments instead once their arguments no longer held sway. drum.gif

Such is the internet, isn't it? smile.gif
    
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post #133 of 234
His allegiance should not be to some guy at the company but to the consumer market. If this was something the employee knew he shouldn't talk about, then he should not of mentioned it. It is not Tigerlords responsibilty to cover the ass of XFX's employees. Also if an XFX manager told him not to talk about it, then that is actually really shady business practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum Reality;13139875 
@TigerLord: I have no issue with your issue with XFX over switching their design.

What I do have an issue with is, you were asked as a favor not to reveal something by an employee and you went and did it anyway. Your beef's with the company, not this one guy, right?

Edited by Topgearfan - 4/15/11 at 1:00pm
post #134 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLord;13139745 
What is there to gain from this? For me, personally I mean? Some kind of superficial validation? Bollocks. Are some of you so cynical that you can't even believe a little bit that someone would warn fellow enthusiasts that a card supposed to ship with a reference PCB no longer does? MSI themselves did not know of this change... how could customers, or retailers know?

Your thread title is one of the reasons I believe this is just to bash on XFX.
If you really wanted to give a "Warning" or to just "share your experience", maybe a little more clarification in the title, such as "Warning: XFX HD 6970 model revisions"

And you just proved a point for TSM with the example about MSI not knowing about the revisions, they just receive the products from AMD/FAB factory (Foxconn most likely), unless Foxconn/AMD specifically notified them that this is a different revision, why would they think its a different revision?
So Human Error here, not XFX's fault on packaging?
Quote:
That is incorrect. Model numbers are used to differentiate different models for their features as designs in coolers often change. If it was internal, why would retailers AND manufacturers post disclaimers on their site NOT to trust images, but look at the model number closely, which they all publish on their site?

Has nothing to do with internal business.

definition of a model number:
Quote:
8. A particular version or design of an object that is made
in multiple versions; as, the 1993 model of the Honda
Accord; the latest model of the HP laserjet printer. For
many manufactured products, the model name is encoded as
part of the model number
http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/model+number
So yes, its used by the manufacture to distinguish products, similar to how stores use internal SKU's.
Quote:
True, but the point of wanting a BIOS switch and back plate still stands. In this particular case, it would have been impossible to know until opening the box, thus rendering you liable to restocking fee and shipping should you wish to return a product.

A manufacturer has the legal obligation to correctly represent a product (either via picture, model number, description, etc.) so the customer can make an informed decision (which is a valid legal argument in courts). If the manufacturer does not notify anyone of important changes, they are responsible for whatever problems ensue.

You do not agree there? Yet, it is the law. The rest could be construed as ethical obligations, and the line fades rapidly, but we're not discussing a possible class action here, simply an utter failure in business management and in my opinion, a blatant disrespect to the customer base as well.

XFX is under no legal obligation to provide a Bios switch or a backplate.

They're obligated to give you a working HD6970 Video Card.
It has to be of the speed/core clock/etc that its standard HD6970 should work on.

1st point: did your video card work? Yes?

ok then moving on to the problem:
My 3rd party Waterblock that i purchased will not fit on the video card.

Wait, this is an XFX problem?
Did XFX have a hand in designing this waterblock?
Did they claim this specific waterblock will work?
Did XFX even mention specifically this model number (i know you love this model number argument) will be compatible with the waterblock?
Did XFX say ANYWHERE that the product you are purchasing is the EXACT original Reference PCB design?
Did XFX claim at any time this specific Model Number (again loving it) is only for the original Reference PCB design?

I'll have to answer No on all the above questions.
Hm, seems that XFX fulfilled their obligations on the purchase.
It offered a fully functional HD6970 per their advertised specs.

Lets move to the next part

Did the waterblock manufacture confirm this block will work for your HD 6970?
Did they claim it was a universal part?
Nope for the above 2.

Is there another waterblock offered that note that its for a specific revision?
That would be a yes. So is it the waterblock manufacture's fault that you bought the wrong waterblock? no it's your fault on not doing the research.

They also were not the ones who put up the picture on NCIX's website, its NCIX's fault for not updating their website picture.
Lets take a look at NCIX's website

I'm gonna assume this is the GPU you purchased:
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=57629&vpn=HD697ACNFC&manufacture=XFX
attachment.php?attachmentid=205735&stc=1&d=1302897338
Its a little small, so i'll zoom in on the part you should read:
attachment.php?attachmentid=205736&stc=1&d=1302897458

Oh look, the pesky fine print
Did NCIX mention on their website when you purchased that this waterblock will work?
Does XFX control what NCIX posts on their website for representation?

Face it, revisions get shipped out under "original" model numbers all the time
What you see is not guaranteed what you get.
Newegg has it happen before as well,

Your argument reminds me of those that complain about overclock speeds.
Its seem like all manufactures are obligated to give you a GPU that can be overclocked high. What if you get a card that just refuses to Overclock? Does that mean the manufacture is obligated to replace the card? Because other people and review sites claim that they can overclock for 20% increase in performance?

This happens all the time in our field of interest (computer parts). Making a big deal about it just seems like you're whining.
Edited by azianai - 4/15/11 at 1:26pm
post #135 of 234
^azianai, You win the internetz for the day! +rep
post #136 of 234
@azianai: I don't remember if TigerLord said he did this, but I'm assuming he called NCIX and asked if the part numbers matched up and everything, just to be sure. So it's reasonable for him to be annoyed at the rather rude surprise of getting a model with a different PCB.
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post #137 of 234
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azianai;13140074 
Your thread title is one of the reasons I believe this is just to bash on XFX.
If you really wanted to give a "Warning" or to just "share your experience", maybe a little more clarification in the title, such as "Warning: XFX HD 6970 model revisions"

Oh, OK... so "Warning: XFX HD 6970 model revisions" is ok, but "Warning: XFX's silent revision on the 6970" isn't? rolleyes.gif Technicality, and completely irrelevant.

I already said I did not base my purchase on the pictures, but the model. Look here:

xfx2.jpg

Do a quick research for that model and you will find that HD-697A-CN-FC means the PCB should be a reference PCB model, from AMD, hence the "A" in the model name.

This means all the bells and whistles of a reference design, including BIOS switch, backplate and all that jazz. NCIX fulfilled the order, and shipped a box with UPC CODE "HD-697A-CN-FC" written on it.

Only, when you open the box, you notice I received a NON-reference PCB. XFX blames this on NCIX, yet different pictures would have resulted in the same situation, because no retailer that I know of put up pictures of the naked PCB for ANY of their product.

So, I wanted a reference PCB. This is what I wanted. This is what I ordered. Only way to know this in advance is by looking at the model number. What other way do you know of to make sure the card you are ordering will come with a reference PCB?

Please let me know ASAP.
    
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post #138 of 234
TBH I think NCIX uses vendor supplied stock photos for a lot of their stuff. I noticed an old picture of a Trendnet router still being used for a newer (different revision) model because Trendnet hadn't sent out the new pictures yet, just as one example from a couple years back.
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post #139 of 234
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum Reality;13140270 
TBH I think NCIX uses vendor supplied stock photos for a lot of their stuff. I noticed an old picture of a Trendnet router still being used for a newer (different revision) model because Trendnet hadn't sent out the new pictures yet, just as one example from a couple years back.

Precisely! This is why you cannot trust pictures, and why a disclaimer appears. So if you want to insure what you are getting is really the correct product, all you have left is the model number, agreed?
    
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post #140 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLord;13140194 
Oh, OK... so "Warning: XFX HD 6970 model revisions" is ok, but "Warning: XFX's silent revision on the 6970" isn't? rolleyes.gif Technicality, and completely irrelevant.

I already said I did not base my purchase on the pictures, but the model. Look here:

xfx2.jpg

Do a quick research for that model and you will find that HD-697A-CN-FC means the PCB should be a reference PCB model, from AMD, hence the "A" in the model name.

This means all the bells and whistles of a reference design, including BIOS switch, backplate and all that jazz. NCIX fulfilled the order, and shipped a box with UPC CODE "HD-697A-CN-FC" written on it.

Only, when you open the box, you notice I received a NON-reference PCB. XFX blames this on NCIX, yet different pictures would have resulted in the same situation, because no retailer that I know of put up pictures of the naked PCB for ANY of their product.

So, I wanted a reference PCB. This is what I wanted. This is what I ordered. Only way to know this in advance is by looking at the model number. What other way do you know of to make sure the card you are ordering will come with a reference PCB?

Please let me know ASAP.

i'll say it again: Model number =/= Any guaranteed information

Find me 1 definition that a Model Number is a legal binding representation of a specific product and manufacturing design.

I'll make it easy for you, you can't.

Every manufacture makes up their own model numbers for their products, so you can't find this definition.

You can't show me where XFX did anything illegal. They never stated anywhere on their website that HD-697A-CN-FC means 100% its reference PCB.

Find that statement in any of their press releases or paperwork, then you'll have an argument

Until then, you can't say they did anything illegal. They did not mis-represent what you would receive, you got a fully functional HD 6970.
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