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What kind of speed should I expect out of RAID5? - Page 3

post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Xeb View Post
:/ I could use the spare PCIe x8 slot I got... but Then if I go dual cards later....
Screw it I will just use onboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Xeb View Post
:/ How am I suppose to do that? Your talking way over my head here and I am doing hardware RAID. should take care of it for me.
Make your mind up! If you're going onboard, you're not using hardware RAID. You're using host-based RAID, or fakeRAID - basic hardware primarily controlled by drivers to do the RAID processing. But it's pretty much irrelevant - what I posted applies to hardware RAID also.

FakeRAID controllers in my experience are crap with small writes that are smaller than a full stripe width - to mitigate the issue you force the controller to write a full stripe at once. To do this set your block size to be equal to the full stripe width. With 2 active disks (3 drive RAID5 = 2 active drives) it works out nicely - set your stripe size to 32K (when you build the array in your controller) and your block size (when you format the partition) to 64K (the max under NTFS).

For any RAID array you should ensure your partitions are aligned. If you're using Win7 you shouldn't need to worry, but it pays to check. You just add in an offset when you partition your drive - for further details you can search for alignment (many of the links you'll get are for SSDs - but the methods are the same).
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast View Post
Make your mind up! If you're going onboard, you're not using hardware RAID. You're using host-based RAID, or fakeRAID - basic hardware primarily controlled by drivers to do the RAID processing. But it's pretty much irrelevant - what I posted applies to hardware RAID also.

FakeRAID controllers in my experience are crap with small writes that are smaller than a full stripe width - to mitigate the issue you force the controller to write a full stripe at once. To do this set your block size to be equal to the full stripe width. With 2 active disks (3 drive RAID5 = 2 active drives) it works out nicely - set your stripe size to 32K (when you build the array in your controller) and your block size (when you format the partition) to 64K (the max under NTFS).

For any RAID array you should ensure your partitions are aligned. If you're using Win7 you shouldn't need to worry, but it pays to check. You just add in an offset when you partition your drive - for further details you can search for alignment (many of the links you'll get are for SSDs - but the methods are the same).
I'm sorry but i don't know where you get your information, please don't confuse people with misinformation and over-complication

An onboard controller is indeed a hardware controller and is not processed through the Operating System. While the OS does indeed provide drivers, the actual computation is done through the BIOS. Drivers are nothing more than updates to the code needed to create an array. Software RAID is something completely different and was never brought up in this discussion.

The max stripe size is well over 64kb for NTFS(something close to 1024kb).

Furthermore mis-alignment of RAID arrays only become an issue in large arrays where all data needs to be written synchronously and the drives need to be aligned to offset the partition. Yes you may argue there will be a mis-alignment nonetheless, but it is insignificant.

Lastly(@Xeb), just remember that the smaller you make your stripe size, the more CPU intensive it shall be. For general use, a 64kb-128kb size is recommended. For larger files you go up to 1mb, and for smaller you go down accordingly.
Edited by Razultull - 4/18/11 at 10:36am
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post #23 of 32
Thread Starter 
k Thanks again Raz. I am probably going to set it to 128k because I do a lot of gaming (as steam will be on this) and I monstly have files (anime) that are about 200-300MB per episode. Any of the big crap I put onto my external 1TB drive.

@ beast - your confusing and my parents work for NetApp. Both of them are specialists with Disaster Recovery and have over 60 years of experience between the 2 of them. I had them read your posts and they thought your were ill-informed or didn't fully understand the subject at hand.
Edited by Lord Xeb - 4/18/11 at 11:13am
 
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post #24 of 32
well, I had a reply written out explaining again regarding the difference between block size and stripe size (which has nothing to do with NTFS btw - well done on that), but it would appear you don't want to know.

Good luck. And if you're parents have that level of experience and still don't understand this stuff then NetApp are in trouble...
post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Xeb View Post
yeah I just want it to be faster than my RAID1. That is it.
I don't think you're going to see any increase in speed over RAID1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razultull View Post
I'm sorry but i don't know where you get your information, please don't confuse people with misinformation and over-complication

An onboard controller is indeed a hardware controller and is not processed through the Operating System. While the OS does indeed provide drivers, the actual computation is done through the BIOS. Drivers are nothing more than updates to the code needed to create an array. Software RAID is something completely different and was never brought up in this discussion.
What exactly are you talking about? It doesn't seem that you have the correct information either. BIOS doing computations? How does a ROM chip do computations? In a fakeRAID system, the heavy lifting is done by the CPU rather than by a dedicated RAID controller; this is why they're called "fake" in the first place. We've moved away from calling such atrocities "win" since that was even more confusing (e.g. winmodems).
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post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast View Post
well, I had a reply written out explaining again regarding the difference between block size and stripe size (which has nothing to do with NTFS btw - well done on that), but it would appear you don't want to know.

Good luck. And if you're parents have that level of experience and still don't understand this stuff then NetApp are in trouble...

You are right it has nothing to do with NTFS, you're the one who brought it up, even though the max size under NTFS is 4096K



Quote:
Originally Posted by error10 View Post
I don't think you're going to see any increase in speed over RAID1.



What exactly are you talking about? It doesn't seem that you have the correct information either. BIOS doing computations? How does a ROM chip do computations? In a fakeRAID system, the heavy lifting is done by the CPU rather than by a dedicated RAID controller; this is why they're called "fake" in the first place. We've moved away from calling such atrocities "win" since that was even more confusing (e.g. winmodems).
Unfortunately, you seem to have misread my post. I never said the BIOS performs the computations. If you would look at my post it says "through the BIOS". This is the lay term for saying the computations take place at a low-level(and not through the OS which is referred to as high-level).

And it isn't fake RAID. There is no difference between an on board RAID controller and a PCI slot one. The main objective for using a RAID card is to offload Computation to its processing unit and the fact that it has RAM dedicated to maintaining meta-data. It is still a RAID at the end of the day...
Edited by Razultull - 4/18/11 at 12:20pm
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post #27 of 32
Thread Starter 
@ Beast - they understand it, I do not... XD
 
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post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razultull View Post
Unfortunately, you seem to have misread my post. I never said the BIOS performs the computations. If you would look at my post it says "through the BIOS". This is the lay term for saying the computations take place at a low-level(and not through the OS which is referred to as high-level).
You might want to be careful when you try to simplify things that important details don't get left out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razultull View Post
And it isn't fake RAID. There is no difference between an on board RAID controller and a PCI slot one. The main objective for using a RAID card is to offload Computation to its processing unit and the fact that it has RAM dedicated to maintaining meta-data. It is still a RAID at the end of the day...
That sounds like a difference to me. Though I wish you luck in trying to get people to stop calling it fakeRAID.
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post #29 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by error10 View Post
You might want to be careful when you try to simplify things that important details don't get left out.

That sounds like a difference to me. Though I wish you luck in trying to get people to stop calling it fakeRAID.
I didn't simplify anything, you read it wrong, not my fault. People who call it fakeRAID don't know what it is or what it means.
Edited by Razultull - 4/18/11 at 1:32pm
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post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razultull View Post
I didn't simplify anything, you read it wrong, not my fault. People who call it fakeRAID don't know what it is or what it means.
Sorry, but I read only what you wrote. That means you need to be more clear.

As for fakeRAID, it's also a good idea not to insult people.
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