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[Yahoo] Scientists make teleportation breakthrough - Page 13

post #121 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D View Post
As it is a bit of a pet peeve for me when news agencies fail at science, I thought I may as well point out that, in reality, a Schrodinger's cat would not be in a superposition, as it is a large enough object to cause the particle's wavefunction to collapse.



It's a fallacy to assert that this debate boils down to the existence of a soul (I realise that, for many, it does), especially since such a concept would have no place in a rational discussion.

The far more interesting question here is that of consciousness. Yes, a perfect copy is indistinguishable to any outside observer. However, I am conscious and the copy is conscious. Both will have effectively the same thought processes, yet be separate and, therefore different entities.

To illustrate what I mean, I'd like to go back to your thought problem. If we had 2 exactly identical people, they'd have 2 independently conscious minds and killing one would necessarily kill that entity, even if the 2 are indistinguishable. In short, this teleportation would end a user's consciousness and start a new identical one, which, from the original user's point of view, is death. To disagree on this conclusion would essentially require the premise that 2 identical conscious entities alive at the same time would have to share one consciousness.

Sorry if this is a bit unclear, but it's tricky to convey exactly what I mean.
Then we would have to bring in.... "Define consciousness." .

How about a addendum to your thought experiment:
A person walks into a machine and two walk. I kill one with a gun. Did I commit murder?
A person walks into a machine and two are created. One is killed so only one walks out. Is that murder?

Our laws aren't set up to handle these cases yet.

Like I had said... this is all still debatable. There is no simple answer!
Edited by DuckieHo - 4/18/11 at 8:19am
Once again...
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post #122 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
This has always been a philosophical argument. If the clone is completely and utterly the same (at sub-atomic level), then what is the difference? In fact, can you even prove the difference?
Not sure about being able to prove a difference but it sure would make telling my famous "half truths" a lot easier.

"No honey I did not sleep with that girl"
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post #123 of 155
Thanks everybody for the multiple, duplicate pictures and references to The Prestige.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subliminally incorrect View Post
so you crtl-x and then crtl-v

but what if they ctrl-c and then ctrl v???

DUPLICATION!!!?!?!?!!
Except you would still need the material to create the object. Alchemy doesn't work well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singular1ty View Post
No such thing as a "soul".

And I hate to break it to you, but The Prestige is fictional.
There is no such thing as no such thing. Then again we all know the Earth is flat.

The sheer fact that you didn't realize The Prestige reference was a theoretical and commonly known example makes your argument and future arguments invalid.
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post #124 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaxel View Post
Destroying light in one place and recreating it in another doesn't sound like teleportation. It sounds like making a copy and destroying the original.
Ever watched Star Trek ? Ye they destroyed the bodies and recreated them in another place
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post #125 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
You are argue philosophy and my response to that is simply "Proof it".

If you cannot prove the difference between A and B, are they not the same? Which is the copy? If every sub-atomic atom is the same, every energy is the same, and every quanta is the same.... what is the difference? The physical location?

This has been debated before by scientists and there is no "correct" answer. Just Google it..... it comes down to "Do you believe in a soul?"


You need to watch more science shows where scientist actually talk about these things.


In Star Trek, people are deconstructed (compensating for the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle). Then they are reconstructed at the target. During the teleportation itself, they are not conscience.

The arguement can be made the person is being killed (your atoms ripped apart is not conducive to living) and a "copy" of them is what actually is created. That "copy" is for all intent and purpose the same.

I believe in one episode in Star Trek, they use transporters to cure someone of a disease. The person coming out is definitely not the same going in.


In scientific terms, what is a copy if two are identical in every way?

Thought problem:
If a person walks into a machine and is deconstructed.... and two people walk out.... which is the original? Does the original even exist still?
Neither, because the original was destroyed.
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post #126 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by onoz View Post
This reminds me of "The Prestige" with Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman. Anyone seen this movie?
This. And yes, great movie.
 
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post #127 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
Just my way of explaining it, but the way I see this is that you die, FOREVER, when you enter the teleporter. Then someone entirely new steps out of the teleporter, and says, "WOW, that worked awesome!" There is some force in nature that binds "you" to your body. Until scientists know what that is, the connection between you and your body may be broken with this telporter. If it can be called a soul, how will your soul reattach to the body coming out of the teleporter, or will a new soul be created by the teleporter? And how would someone else ever know? The new body stepping out would have every memory you ever had, and a seamless existence, but your existence would have stopped when you entered the teleporter.

Think of the movie The Prestige. The "teleported man" made a copy in a new location, and the original had to be killed with every trick. The copy then went on to perform the next trick, and so on.
This is science (i.e truth/fact) a "soul" is a made up religious belief, so what you just said is pointless. lol
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post #128 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Then we would have to bring in.... "Define consciousness." .

How about a addendum to your thought experiment:
A person walks into a machine and two walk. I kill one with a gun. Did I commit murder?
A person walks into a machine and two are created. One is killed so only one walks out. Is that murder?

Our laws aren't set up to handle these cases yet.

Like I had said... this is all still debatable. There is no simple answer!
Very true, this is a tricky discussion without a good definition of consciousness.

As for your thought experiment, I think it clearly would be murder (maybe not by law, but I can't trust those politicians with morality). To illustrate my point more clearly, let me try this thought experiment:
Two completely identical computers are running a completely identical program and you turn one computer off. Have you stopped running a program?

Further building upon this: clearly, to the outside world, which computer you turn off is irrelevant. However, let's suppose that the program was consciousness.exe and that each consciousness had a will to survive. Thus, each program would care which one was turned off. This is basically the idea behind of one individual being killed and replaced by a new one.

In essence, while all identical copies will be you, each one will only see itself as 'I', since anything else would require some kind of telepathic linkage between all copies.
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post #129 of 155
Portal here we come!
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post #130 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormXLR View Post
Ever watched Star Trek ? Ye they destroyed the bodies and recreated them in another place
Sorry, you're right. I forgot that Star Trek is the metaphysical measuring stick for reality.
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