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[xbitlabs] Every Watt Counts: AMD E-350 vs. Intel Core i3-2100T - Page 12

post #111 of 118
Why are they doing these tests with an 880W power supply? The efficiency of these power supplies falls off dramatically in this load region(below 10%). I'd guess that the actual power consumption of each machine is roughly half what the article says. You can't really tell how much less power the E-350 is using compared to the i3-2100T because the power supply efficiency is not constant across all load levels.

Bottom line: These numbers are meaningless because they aren't corrected for efficiency and they didn't give us the efficiency curve of the supply used(which was totally inappropriate for these tests).
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post #112 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsout View Post
Zacates cou is not all that much better then atom. An athlon x2 still crushes it. Zacates strong point is the graphics.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-br...0-apu-review/9

And half the people complaining about 23.976 don't even have a tv that does 24p properly so it won't even affect them.
As much as I like Guru3D, none of those are actual uses, they're all benchmarks, I don't care if I only get say, 1fps extra in 3DMark from an upgrade, usage patterns can be unpredictable and not really easily tested and one thing those benchmarks don't show is how horrible and slow the Atom is if you want to do more than one thing, I've worked with heaps of Atoms and owned a N270 as well as used a 330 for a while, they were decent until I tried to do more than one task that used any reasonable amount of CPU resources, something I relate to the lack of Out of order processing..It's like SSDs, they're hard to show exactly how much they'll benefit you.

And chances are if someone cares about image quality or performance to the level on here, they're going to get a 23.976Hz TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpz View Post
Why are they doing these tests with an 880W power supply? The efficiency of these power supplies falls off dramatically in this load region(below 10%). I'd guess that the actual power consumption of each machine is roughly half what the article says. You can't really tell how much less power the E-350 is using compared to the i3-2100T because the power supply efficiency is not constant across all load levels.

Bottom line: These numbers are meaningless because they aren't corrected for efficiency and they didn't give us the efficiency curve of the supply used(which was totally inappropriate for these tests).
Wow, I didn't even notice that, you're right.
    
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post #113 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpz View Post
Why are they doing these tests with an 880W power supply? The efficiency of these power supplies falls off dramatically in this load region(below 10%). I'd guess that the actual power consumption of each machine is roughly half what the article says. You can't really tell how much less power the E-350 is using compared to the i3-2100T because the power supply efficiency is not constant across all load levels.

Bottom line: These numbers are meaningless because they aren't corrected for efficiency and they didn't give us the efficiency curve of the supply used(which was totally inappropriate for these tests).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOURCE
The graphs below show the full power draw of the computer (without the monitor) measured after the power supply.
Since they never measured the power from the wall, only the power delivered to the system FROM the power supply, it doesn't matter, as they addressed in the "power consumption" segment.

Besides, considering that the Brazos APU has a TDP of 18w, there's no way the draw can be less than that at load. Actually, it must be greater, since no electrical system is 100% efficient. Their numbers look completely fine and reasonable.
    
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post #114 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Since they never measured the power from the wall, only the power delivered to the system FROM the power supply, it doesn't matter, as they addressed in the "power consumption" segment.

Besides, considering that the Brazos APU has a TDP of 18w, there's no way the draw can be less than that at load. Actually, it must be greater, since no electrical system is 100% efficient. Their numbers look completely fine and reasonable.
I interpreted that as meaning they measured between the power supply and the wall. If they had measured between the power supply and the components you'd think we would be given more data as well as information/pictures of their setup including the hardware used for the test. There was also a short disclaimer somewhere which briefly stated that they did not take account for efficiencies. I'm guessing they just plugged their 880W PSU into a kill-a-watt and called it an article.

Also, TDP is not the same as power draw. It's a cooling capacity design for coolers. Actual power draw should be less than the TDP because TDP is calculated to give some cooling headroom.
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post #115 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
As much as I like Guru3D, none of those are actual uses, they're all benchmarks, I don't care if I only get say, 1fps extra in 3DMark from an upgrade, usage patterns can be unpredictable and not really easily tested and one thing those benchmarks don't show is how horrible and slow the Atom is if you want to do more than one thing, I've worked with heaps of Atoms and owned a N270 as well as used a 330 for a while, they were decent until I tried to do more than one task that used any reasonable amount of CPU resources, something I relate to the lack of Out of order processing..It's like SSDs, they're hard to show exactly how much they'll benefit you.

And chances are if someone cares about image quality or performance to the level on here, they're going to get a 23.976Hz TV.



Wow, I didn't even notice that, you're right.
I agree with all of this. So do you have any experience with zacate in real world use? I also have used an atom and it is not a great experience.
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post #116 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpz View Post
I interpreted that as meaning they measured between the power supply and the wall. If they had measured between the power supply and the components you'd think we would be given more data as well as information/pictures of their setup including the hardware used for the test. There was also a short disclaimer somewhere which briefly stated that they did not take account for efficiencies. I'm guessing they just plugged their 880W PSU into a kill-a-watt and called it an article.

Also, TDP is not the same as power draw. It's a cooling capacity design for coolers. Actual power draw should be less than the TDP because TDP is calculated to give some cooling headroom.
I interpreted their statement of "did not take into account PSU efficiency" to mean that their measurements completely took it out of the equation, and that only the power going into the system was being measured. But I agree, it was not made obvious--and pictures would have been nice.

TDP is the maximum amount of heat that the CPU is designed to move and still be within design specifications (interpreted as maximum-load heat dissipation sometimes). The system will always draw more than that, which is what they were measuring.
    
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post #117 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsout View Post
I agree with all of this. So do you have any experience with zacate in real world use? I also have used an atom and it is not a great experience.
Not yet, I am considering getting one for my HTPC to replace the E2180 I'm using now though.
    
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post #118 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpz View Post
Why are they doing these tests with an 880W power supply? The efficiency of these power supplies falls off dramatically in this load region(below 10%). I'd guess that the actual power consumption of each machine is roughly half what the article says. You can't really tell how much less power the E-350 is using compared to the i3-2100T because the power supply efficiency is not constant across all load levels.

Bottom line: These numbers are meaningless because they aren't corrected for efficiency and they didn't give us the efficiency curve of the supply used(which was totally inappropriate for these tests).
Other things to take into account, from the review (keep in mind the gigabyte board was made with overclocking in mind... however you want to take that):

Quote:
The thing is that we used Gigabyte E350N-USB3 mainboard to measure the performance of Brazos platform in our today’s test session. And this mainboard wasn’t designed with power-efficiency in mind, and its power consumption is significantly higher than it could have been, had the developers really paid special attention to this aspect. One of the good examples could be the recently reviewed MSI E350IS-E45 mainboard, which power consumption in idle mode was only 7.3 W. It means that good AMD Brazos mainboards can in fact beat Core i3-2100T in idle mode when it comes to energy-efficiency.
The other thing is that they had enabled all power savings modes as far as I can tell. Their test was significantly short of mine which had most of them disabled on the zacate (I do not have a 2100t to test). 3d mark for instance hit in the high 37.x watt range while on their test only hit 31.2 w. Same Gigabyte board and test setup.
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