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[Bit-tech] Samsung looking to sell hard drive business? - Page 4

post #31 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;13173456 
Immediately, I know that you have been following SSDs for less than 1 year. The fact is that all these SandForce SSDs launched at $280-300. I am looking at numbers over 5 years.

In addition, I already told you why prices have not moved much in the last year. IMFT has finally gotten SSD-quality 25nm NAND in mass production.

On that page, 120GB Vertex 2 for $180 AR: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227551&cm_re=120gb_ssd-_-20-227-551-_-Product



Furthermore.... I already explained this! rolleyes.gif

Reiterating, the vast majority of consumers require less than 60GB for their OS/applications.

OEMs can abstract the folder partitioning. In addition, Intel is coming out with SSD caching technology. This will be on all their chipsets in 1-2 years.


Do you own a SSD?

Try replacing a 5400 RPM HDD with a SSD in a laptop...

Yeah, 180 dollars, WITH a rebate. So it's still over 200. Rebates are meaningless. You may get it back in 6 months, or maybe not at all. I've played the rebate game before.

Oh, and they debuted more like 260 dollars. wink.gif

I've been watching SSDs for about a year, actually.

Prices: they're about to go back up. That's not going to help adoption rates any time soon.

Mainstream users: Actually, *I*'ve already explained this. NO mainstream user is going to use an SSD until they can fit everything they use on it. Not just their OS and apps. Average users aren't going to pay extra to have to do more work. Average users wouldn't understand the concept of a "storage drive" and an "os and apps" drive, and even if they did, you're still using mechanical. I thought SSDs were going to be mainstream, i.e. replace mechanical? How are we to do that while using mech. drives for storage?

SSD caching: Will still not be 'mainstream' (i.e. on a majority of systems in use) within the next 3 years. The majority of consumers won't even be upgrading in the next three years. Grandma will be happy to use her Core 2 Duo until the cows come home. She's certainly not going to be happy that now she has to pay for 2 drives instead of one when she does want to upgrade. When she sees the cheaper, mechanical only model sitting next to it for 100 bucks less, which do you think she's going to choose?

I like how a discussion about when SSDs will be mainstream comes down to "do you own an ssd"? Yeah, because I can't possibly discuss the matter if I'm not using one right now, right?

Forgot Space: Even my parents use more than 60 gb. And I like how you ignored this "it wouldn't matter if it were $4 dollars/8gb, because mech. drives are ~10 cents/gb." part.
Edited by pursuinginsanity - 4/18/11 at 8:03am
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post #32 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post
Yeah, 180 dollars, WITH a rebate. So it's still over 200. Rebates are meaningless. You may get it back in 6 months, or maybe not at all. I've played the rebate game before.

I've been watching SSDs for about a year, actually.

Prices: they're about to go back up. That's not going to help adoption rates any time soon.
You are basing your opinion on trending information of 1 year?
I am basing may opinion off tredning information of 5 years.... with hard numbers.... and market reports.

Did you even bother to look at www.dramexchange.com? Sign up for the free membership, you will periodic market reports.




Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post
Mainstream users: Actually, *I*'ve already explained this. NO mainstream user is going to use an SSD until they can fit everything they use on it. Not just their OS and apps. Average users aren't going to pay extra to have to do more work. Average users wouldn't understand the concept of a "storage drive" and an "os and apps" drive, and even if they did, you're still using mechanical. I thought SSDs were going to be mainstream, i.e. replace mechanical? How are we to do that while using mech. drives for storage?
....and I already explained disk abstraction would resolve this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post
SSD caching: Will still not be 'mainstream' (i.e. on a majority of systems in use) within the next 3 years. The majority of consumers won't even be upgrading in the next three years. Grandma will be happy to use her Core 2 Duo until the cows come home. She's certainly not going to be happy that now she has to pay for 2 drives instead of one when she does want to upgrade. When she sees the cheaper, mechanical only model sitting next to it for 100 bucks less, which do you think she's going to choose?
Ahh.... when people talk about mainstream, they are talking about the sales of new machines.

SSD will improve user experience for the mainstream more than a CPU, RAM, or HDD upgrade. A GPU might help older machines. If a OEM can't sell these upgrades anymore, what else will they sell?

Will grandma notice the difference between a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo vs a i7 2400? Probably not. Will she notice the difference between a 7200RPM HDD and SSD? Probably yes.




Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post
I like how a discussion about when SSDs will be mainstream comes down to "do you own an ssd"? Yeah, because I can't possibly discuss the matter if I'm not using one right now, right?
That is part of the point of you are uninformed. You claim that SSDs prices haven't been dropping... based on a single year.

You do not have years worth experience or knowledge.
You have not been reading about NAND development for years.
You have not read industry analysts for years.
You do not know the hard numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post
Forgot Space: Even my parents use more than 60 gb.
How big is their Program Files and OS folders combined?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post
Oh, and they debuted more like 260 dollars.
You mean $360: http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16820227551

Go look around camelegg and tell me again SSD prices have not been decreasing for the last few years. Seriously... go. Do it.
Edited by DuckieHo - 4/18/11 at 8:09am
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post #33 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Who are you to judge?
I thought that forums were for voicing your opinion, just because you don't like it doesn't mean that he's wrong. Give us a break, right or wrong we're entitled to our opinions.
post #34 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood406 View Post
I thought that forums were for voicing your opinion, just because you don't like it doesn't mean that he's wrong. Give us a break, right or wrong we're entitled to our opinions.
Sure, but calling people "moron" when you are uninformed..... well... ya know.

If an opinion is unsupported, incorrect, or uninformed, then why should it not be torn down?
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post #35 of 127
I am happy with both my Samsung F3s and my Seagate 7200.11

This marriage would not bother me (well, the less competition part of it does...)
 
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post #36 of 127
How do you know they aren't morons? Do we assume that all businesses make sound, practical, logistical decisions?? That would mean that the bankers, board of directors, were making sound decisions when they allowed bad loans to be made getting America into a massive mess. We could also assume that Enron made practical decisions raiding the employees pension. I could go on but these kind of popped up first.

Sorry to say that I wouldn't put it past Samsung to do this based on the bottom line...... money in their, and shareholder, pockets. Isn't that what it's all about?
post #37 of 127
Not sure who you're talking about; I didn't call anyone a moron, and if you -are- talking about me, I don't like you putting words in my mouth.

Price of the Sandforce: 269 dollars debut price, per the same Newegg page you linked me. Shame, Duckie.

This discussion got started because you implied SSDs would *replace* mechanical drives as the go to choice for mainstream users. If we're having to use mechanical drives as storage, clearly it's the mech. drive that's still "mainstream" and the SSD that's an "enthusiast only" choice.

Price per gb. Grandma doesn't care if she notices the difference between an SSD and an HD. She cares that the mechanical only machine is 100 dollars (or more) cheaper.

Their OS + apps. Doesn't matter. Super fetch makes what few programs they use (hell, it covers all the programs I use even) extremely responsive. They're not about to learn how to use seperate drives for storage, and wouldn't be interested in spending 100 dollars (or more) for a very mild performance boost in an area they aren't interested in. They are like many of us: They can wait the blink of an eye for IE to open. Who actually restarts their computer often enough to care about boot times?

New machines: Low end Dells with SSDs. Doubt it will even happen (in 3 years) but let's assume it did. Do you think the average customer will pay 600 dollars for the machine with the ssd + mech, or 480 for the one with mech. only? Ah, yes.

You can claim that I'm uninformed all you want - but so are "mainstream" users. SSDs will be a VERY hard sell to mainstream customers. "100 extra dollars, for what? 60gb of space? I can buy a Terabyte for that!" Stop ignoring this part of the argument. It's not helping your case any. I've repeated it three times already "it wouldn't matter if it were $4 dollars/8gb, because mech. drives are ~10 cents/gb."

My opinion isn't incorrect or unsupported: People care about their money. When they can buy a mech. drive 10 times the size for half the money, they will take the cheaper one. Period.
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post #38 of 127
SSD's are on the way up, are they there yet? no, will they get there? yes, when will that be? roughtly 2-3 years to become the "defacto" choice for OEM system builders and laptop manufacturers ASSUMING the prices drop to be competative with HDD's at the time AND they fit the usage requirements of "mainstream" users of the time (For example more people start buying HD video cameras and saving them to their computers, space usage will no doubt go up as a whole). When will they take over completely? unknown as my deloren is currently out of plutonium..........(i can't see them replacing big multi-TB drives in file servers/NAS's/etc for a good number of years yet purely because of the HDD's maturity has it at an advantage of having for eg 2Tb for under $100 when your currently talking 120Gb for $200+ SSD)

Speed is a non issue as most users who "won't use 60Gb" also won't be using apps that need the SSD's speed for the most part (new pc startups are already fast enough to be non-existant so shaving an extra few seconds isn't a dot point you should base your argument on).

So can we all agree, yes SSD's will become the mainstream choice for new PC's/Laptops in a few years Assuming the above conditions are met, but they will not completely replace HDD's as "The" storage medium for computers?
Edited by ShadoX - 4/18/11 at 8:29am
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post #39 of 127
Western Digital just snatched up Hitachi(?) for a few billion. I can see Samsung eye-balling that deal thinking $$$.

/edit

After checking CPU it was Hitachi that WD just bought for 4.3bn leaving WD, Seagate, Toshiba and Samsung left. Looks like we will be down to three manufacturers to choose from soon. It does appear though as "Hitachi" will still remain a brand under WD, but for how long no one knows. We all know how "ATI" fared in that game.
Edited by ryanrenolds08 - 4/18/11 at 8:30am
    
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post #40 of 127
Shadox, there's no way SSDs will drop to ~80 bucks for 300+gb in 2-3 years. That's what I've been screaming for 4 posts now.
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