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[Bit-tech] Samsung looking to sell hard drive business? - Page 5

post #41 of 127
Don't really get the Seagate hate. They were the go to company for years until recently. Every one recommended them.

I have been buying Seagate for 15 years or so(for myself and others) and those drivers still work fine. Yeah the F3's are nice, but they are only marginally better then Seagate/WD drives in the same bracket.

I know there were a few problems with a specific firmware or something with Seagate a few years ago, but that happens with every Hard Drive manufacturer at some point. It's not like they are Matrix.
     
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post #42 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13173912 
Price of the Sandforce: 269 dollars debut price, per the same Newegg page you linked me.

Umm, check that link again, you only went back 3 months on the graph. It starts at $380+ It's come down a lot in a year.
 
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post #43 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13173912 
Not sure who you're talking about; I didn't call anyone a moron, and if you -are- talking about me, I don't like you putting words in my mouth.

Price of the Sandforce: 269 dollars debut price, per the same Newegg page you linked me. Shame, Duckie.

http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16820227551
Set the Range to "All" instead of "Three Months"

Highest Price: $389 on Jul 01, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13173912 
This discussion got started because you implied SSDs would *replace* mechanical drives as the go to choice for mainstream users. If we're having to use mechanical drives as storage, clearly it's the mech. drive that's still "mainstream" and the SSD that's an "enthusiast only" choice.

Price per gb. Grandma doesn't care if she notices the difference between an SSD and an HD. She cares that the mechanical only machine is 100 dollars (or more) cheaper.

You can claim that I'm uninformed all you want - but so are "mainstream" users. SSDs will be a VERY hard sell to mainstream customers. "100 extra dollars, for what? 60gb of space? I can buy a Terabyte for that!" Stop ignoring this part of the argument. It's not helping your case any. I've repeated it three times already "it wouldn't matter if it were $4 dollars/8gb, because mech. drives are ~10 cents/gb."

My opinion isn't incorrect or unsupported: People care about their money. When they can buy a mech. drive 10 times the size for half the money, they will take the cheaper one. Period.

You are framing SSDs in terms of HDDs. To be clear, they are in a seperate class from HDDs. This is what I am refering to memory hierarchy: L1, L2, L3, RAM, SSD, HDD.

A counter example.... Look my new computer comes with 8GB RAM! For the same price or less, OEM will be able to add a 16-30GB SSD which would yield better user experience.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13173912 
New machines: Low end Dells with SSDs. Doubt it will even happen (in 3 years) but let's assume it did. Do you think the average customer will pay 600 dollars for the machine with the ssd + mech, or 480 for the one with mech. only? Ah, yes.
In a few years, a 30GB SSD will be less than $40.... not $120. At that price point, it is concivable that OEMs will ship the OS on a SSD. They would do this instead of more RAM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13173912 
Their OS + apps. Doesn't matter.
What do they have installed? I'm a system developer with IDEs, productivity suites, and other application installed and I don't even use that much.

You might want to try running WinDirStat on it see what is sucking up all that space (would it be hiberfil.sys and pagefile?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13173912 
Super fetch makes what few programs they use (hell, it covers all the programs I use even) extremely responsive. They're not about to learn how to use seperate drives for storage, and wouldn't be interested in spending 100 dollars (or more) for a very mild performance boost in an area they aren't interested in. They are like many of us: They can wait the blink of an eye for IE to open. Who actually restarts their computer often enough to care about boot times?
Super Fetch pre-caches commonly used data for loading. It does not make progarms that do disk I/O more responsive.

SSDs aren't just about load times though.

Windows Vista and 7 had support for SSD caching with ReadyDrive. However, the Momentus XT and Intel implementation of SSD Cache use their own algorithms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13173993 
Shadox, there's no way SSDs will drop to ~80 bucks for 300+gb in 2-3 years. That's what I've been screaming for 4 posts now.
...no said it would. It doesn't have to for mainstream adoption.
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post #44 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius Silver;13174104 
Umm, check that link again, you only went back 3 months on the graph. It starts at $380+ It's come down a lot in a year.

I'm not looking at a graph. I'm looking at Newegg. "was 269.99" and amazon says it was even cheaper. List Price: $223.99. Even the 240s were only 440 list price.

And don't tell me that only 3 months ago these were 280 bucks. I know better. I was thinking about buying one back in Sept. They were ~220 dollars for the 120gb models. Whattayaknow, they're still the same price.

Duckie: What's "sucking up all that space" Uh, pictures. Videos of the grandkids. You know, normal things for a 60-70 year old couple. rolleyes.gif

You keep making these assumptions that mainstream users care about I/O performance (I don't even care about I/O performance. Have nothing outside of av that thrashes the HDD).

You also keep assuming the customer isn't interested in value.
Edited by pursuinginsanity - 4/18/11 at 8:54am
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post #45 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13174198 
I'm not looking at a graph. I'm looking at Newegg. "was 269.99" and amazon says it was even cheaper. List Price: $223.99. Even the 240s were only 440 list price.

And don't tell me that only 3 months ago these were 280 bucks. I know better. I was thinking about buying one back in Sept. They were ~220 dollars for the 120gb models. Whattayaknow, they're still the same price.
The camelegg is database that queries Newegg.

Their historical pricing is more accurate than Newegg. rolleyes.gif


Same thing with Amazon: http://camelcamelcamel.com/OCZ-Technology-Vertex-2-5-Inch-OCZSSD2-2VTXE120G/product/B003NE5JCO


Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13174198 
Duckie: What's "sucking up all that space" Uh, pictures. Videos of the grandkids. You know, normal things for a 60-70 year old couple. rolleyes.gif
....and is that OS or application data? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13174198 
You keep making these assumptions that mainstream users care about I/O performance (I don't even care about I/O performance. Have nothing outside of av that thrashes the HDD).

You also keep assuming the customer isn't interested in value.
Do you think the mainsteam use is interested how computers work? No.
Do you think the mainsteam use is interested how computers perform? Yes.


SSDs provide better value in terms of user experience than more memory or faster CPU for most home users.
Edited by DuckieHo - 4/18/11 at 8:59am
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post #46 of 127
Yes, Duckie, SSDs will have to drop to HDD value before it will be embraced by the typical consumer. You can argue otherwise until you're blue in the face (like now) but that just isn't the case.

Oh, and "highest price" means nothing. I can find you 500 dollar 60gb SSDs on Amazon (probably newegg as well) right this second. Actual retail price is what we're (what I'm) looking at here.

Duckie: ....and is that OS or application data? No.

Of course not, Duckie. Are they going to sit there for 4 hours while I explain to them how to use one disc for storage and another for their OS? Do you think they even know what an OS is??

Duckie: o you think the mainsteam use is interested how computers work? No.
Do you think the mainsteam use is interested how computers perform? Yes.

No. They care about PRICE. People that buy 500-600 dollar Dells aren't buying performance, they're buying "an email machine." And "it can so game! ..It's got solitaire."

If it can sol, if it can e-mail, if it can youtube or facebook, if it can read pdfs, AND it's got a ton of storage for all their useless data, THAT's what sells a mainstream computer.
Edited by pursuinginsanity - 4/18/11 at 9:08am
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post #47 of 127
My god no, better buy some backup F3's
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post #48 of 127
You funny,(sarcastic)

Why the hell will they do that?!?!?

If they really need to, please sell it to "Western Digital" not "Seagate"
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post #49 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13174251 
Yes, Duckie, SSDs will have to drop to HDD value before it will be embraced by the typical consumer. You can argue otherwise until you're blue in the face (like now) but that just isn't the case.
....Memory Heirarchy. Computer engineers have figured it out 50 years ago.

Please go take a Computer Architecture 101 course.

The point is that SSDs will never cost the same as a HDDs at a GB/$. However, they do not need to.

(BTW, you are misusing the word "value" from an ecomonics point of view.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13174251 
Oh, and "highest price" means nothing. I can find you 500 dollar 60gb SSDs on Amazon (probably newegg as well) right this second. Actual retail price is what we're (what I'm) looking at here.
You were argue that SSDs have not dropped in price.

The Vertex 2 was sold by Amazon and Newegg at over $360 over a year ago. This is the retail price of that drive... so what are you attempting to argue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity;13174251 
No. They care about PRICE. People that buy 500-600 dollar Dells aren't buying performance, they're buying "an email machine." And "it can so game! ..It's got solitaire."
How come there are dual cores in email machines now? wink.gif



One indicator of "mainsteam" is Apple. They will be shipping more and more of their Macs will SSDs.
Edited by DuckieHo - 4/18/11 at 9:14am
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post #50 of 127
The last 3 seagate drives I have had have developed mechanical problems within a year. Not good.I bought a tone of them before though and they were great hopefullynthey can get back on their feet.
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