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PSU for Dual 4870x2 - Page 10

post #91 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL_Wut_Axel View Post
Doesn't change anything. You used your system as a way of describing what the average enthusiast will consume, but the truth is your system will consume 50-100 watts more. Also, your PSU is 90% efficient at 50% load. In the scenario you posted, it'd be 86-87% efficient due to 75-80% load. But that's just some minor things to point out. The point I want to make is that you're lying when you say you need an 850W PSU to run a system with a Radeon HD 6970 CrossFire. The only instance in which it'd make sense is if you do hardcore CPU and GPU over-clocking and over-volting, plus a generous amount of peripherals. Funny this is, that's what describes your build the most. Just because YOU MAY need an 850W PSU or higher to run a 6970 CrossFire doesn't mean everyone will. You can run it on a stock platform and consume 600 watts at the wall. Throw in CPU over-clocking and over-volting plus GPU over-clocking, and then it's 700-750W. Throw in an even more extreme system and then it's 800W. Even if we take into account 87% efficiency and 830 watts at the wall, that's 720W the PSU has to provide. In a more realistic average enthusiast scenario, that'd be ~650W, which is not much to ask for a 750W PSU that's high-quality.

And then there's the fact that this is absolute maximum power draw. Gaming, those 650W would turn into 550W or so.

Sorry man, but you're just wrong. You don't need 850W to power a Radeon HD 6970 CrossFire system.
im not wrong i NEVER stated 850w was required for 6970s, here let me quote my first post for you even

"Why risk it, no point in running your psu that damn near its max all the time. if i can pull 800w+ with a pair of 6970s i think you will need something bigger for a pair of 4870X2s they were not exactly power friendly "

My point was if my system can pull that, 4870x2's draw as much if not MORE than my 6970s then he could be as high if not higher than my draw.

And again i was pulling 800W at stock GPU voltage so your overvolting my gpus arguement is mute.

And im curious, what do you define in my system that i have for extras that are that much above and beyond a normal person? keeping in mind this is an enthusiast site?

Also if we are starting to pull so much power it pushes the psu out of its optimal efficency range, maybe thats a good sign you are getting a bit too close to the max, considering what thats 20-80%?
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post #92 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
im not wrong i NEVER stated 850w was required for 6970s, here let me quote my first post for you even

"Why risk it, no point in running your psu that damn near its max all the time. if i can pull 800w+ with a pair of 6970s i think you will need something bigger for a pair of 4870X2s they were not exactly power friendly "

My point was if my system can pull that, 4870x2's draw as much if not MORE than my 6970s then he could be as high if not higher than my draw.

And again i was pulling 800W at stock GPU voltage so your overvolting my gpus arguement is mute.

And im curious, what do you define in my system that i have for extras that are that much above and beyond a normal person? keeping in mind this is an enthusiast site?

Also if we are starting to pull so much power it pushes the psu out of its optimal efficency range, maybe thats a good sign you are getting a bit too close to the max, considering what thats 20-80%?
Yes, you did. Look at the beginning of our conversation. You said you wouldn't risk it and that it was "pushing it". Again, using your system as reference is erred.

As for the PSUs, are you actually suggesting we should buy PSUs based on them being only used to 50% so they can deliver the highest efficiency? I see. I'll just go right ahead and buy a TruePower New 750W to power a Phenom II X4 + Radeon HD 6850.
A PSU's "optimal" efficiency range is only from 40-60% of its rated power.
    
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post #93 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
im not wrong i NEVER stated 850w was required for 6970s, here let me quote my first post for you even

"Why risk it, no point in running your psu that damn near its max all the time. if i can pull 800w+ with a pair of 6970s i think you will need something bigger for a pair of 4870X2s they were not exactly power friendly "

My point was if my system can pull that, 4870x2's draw as much if not MORE than my 6970s then he could be as high if not higher than my draw.
That depends completely on whether the OP goes crazy on over-clocking and over-volting and has many peripherals. Looking at the system specs, it doesn't mention over-clocking. If it's stock or only over-clocked on stock voltage, the power draw will most likely be around 700-750W at the wall, and around 800W if over-volted a bit. So, anywhere from 640W-720W being asked from the PSU, which would normally be pushing it a bit, but the TX-750 can actually deliver ~850W. Stock or OC with stock volts, it'd handle it with pretty much no problems. Over-volted, I'd look into a higher-end PSU because there are some that have less ripple at those wattages.
    
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post #94 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL_Wut_Axel View Post
Yes, you did. Look at the beginning of our conversation. You said you wouldn't risk it and that it was "pushing it". Again, using your system as reference is erred.

As for the PSUs, are you actually suggesting we should buy PSUs based on them being only used to 50% so they can deliver the highest efficiency? I see. I'll just go right ahead and buy a TruePower New 750W to power a Phenom II X4 + Radeon HD 6850.
A PSU's "optimal" efficiency range is only from 40-60% of its rated power.

There is nothing wrong with using my system as a reference, my computer is not some magical unicorn that draws more power than any other computer here. Still waiting for what you considering above and beyond on my system. Especially considering that 4870Xs draw MORE than my 6970s so if going by your opinion my system is abnormal subtract the 50-100w that you think i should for some odd reason and then add in the fact that the 4870x2s draw more and you are pretty much back where i am. so you wouldnt want less than what i have for a pair of 4870x2s w/ i7

And as far as pushing it, i consider being at 90% or better of your psus rated capacity alll the time is pushing it, room to spare is nice to have

and fyi i just looked up the 80+ requirements. To be 80+ it has to be 80% or better from 20 to 100% for 80+ gold it has to be 90% at 50% load and 87% at 20 and 100% load so im not sure where you got 40-60% (my unit is 80+ gold)

And the final thing that pissed me off, was not you but someone on these forums told me i would be ok with a third 6970 in MY system which i think you would even agree in MY system would be a bad idea?
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post #95 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
There is nothing wrong with using my system as a reference, my computer is not some magical unicorn that draws more power than any other computer here. Still waiting for what you considering above and beyond on my system. Especially considering that 4870Xs draw MORE than my 6970s so if going by your opinion my system is abnormal subtract the 50-100w that you think i should for some odd reason and then add in the fact that the 4870x2s draw more and you are pretty much back where i am. so you wouldnt want less than what i have for a pair of 4870x2s w/ i7

And as far as pushing it, i consider being at 90% or better of your psus rated capacity alll the time is pushing it, room to spare is nice to have

and fyi i just looked up the 80+ requirements. To be 80+ it has to be 80% or better from 20 to 100% for 80+ gold it has to be 90% at 50% load and 87% at 20 and 100% load so im not sure where you got 40-60% (my unit is 80+ gold)

And the final thing that pissed me off, was not you but someone on these forums told me i would be ok with a third 6970 in MY system which i think you would even agree in MY system would be a bad idea?
Your system DOES consume more power than it should at full load. I already gave a rundown of why, but the most probable reason is peripherals. A system with an i7 920 at 1.35V, two OCed and over-volted 6970s, and rest should consume around 750W ATW. It could be attributed to additional peripherals plus water-cooling.

Also, you didn't get what I said about PSU efficiency. I said that PSUs are at their peak efficiency at 40-60% load. You suggested that when PSUs start to decline in efficiency that means you're starting to push them too much. But then anything after 60% results in less efficiency, so do you mean people should keep a safe guideline of 40%?

And yes, a 6970 Tri-Fire in your system would be a VERY bad idea. Given what it's consuming now, it'll go to 1000 watts, which would put too much stress on the PSU and could result in the system turning off at full load.
    
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post #96 of 109
I love the drama 11 pages of flame wars and OP has already made a decision but no one cares u guys made my day
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post #97 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL_Wut_Axel View Post
Your system DOES consume more power than it should at full load. I already gave a rundown of why, but the most probable reason is peripherals. A system with an i7 920 at 1.35V, two OCed and over-volted 6970s, and rest should consume around 750W ATW. It could be attributed to additional peripherals plus water-cooling.

Also, you didn't get what I said about PSU efficiency. I said that PSUs are at their peak efficiency at 40-60% load. You suggested that when PSUs start to decline in efficiency that means you're starting to push them too much. But then anything after 60% results in less efficiency, so do you mean people should keep a safe guideline of 40%?

And yes, a 6970 Tri-Fire in your system would be a VERY bad idea. Given what it's consuming now, it'll go to 1000 watts, which would put too much stress on the PSU and could result in the system turning off at full load.
again where are you getting 40-60%? None of the 80+ certs mention 40-60%

80+ is 80% 20-100%
80+ Gold is 90% @ 50% and 87% at both 20% and 100%

So yes if you go out of the 80+ range you should be using a different power supply and my opinion is that i wouldnt want to run one at 90%+ all the time as i like to have room to breath. Im not talking about 40-60%.

And my system doesnt consume more than it should rofl, its not using magical watts that come from imaginary components in my computer. And my computer is not that out of the normal on here. A lot of people run watercooling here and have overclocked cpus and or gpus.

And what pissed me off is you calling me a liar, nowhere did i lie about anything. Sure you can argue my computer is not normal and you are entitled to your opinion on that but nowhere did i lie.

And about the tri-fire, well someone very well regarded on these forums said i should be fine so i guess the only thing id like to see (again my opinion) is people to take a closer look at what the person is actually running before going all willy nilly saying yeah its fine no problem. The OP even if he took those video cards and overclocked them alot he could easily push that power supply. Or maybe say yes you should be fine unless you overclock alot and have alot of extras.

I just dont want someone to end up with a dead power supply and hopefully nothing else with it.
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post #98 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post
again where are you getting 40-60%? None of the 80+ certs mention 40-60%

80+ is 80% 20-100%
80+ Gold is 90% @ 50% and 87% at both 20% and 100%

So yes if you go out of the 80+ range you should be using a different power supply and my opinion is that i wouldnt want to run one at 90%+ all the time as i like to have room to breath. Im not talking about 40-60%.

And my system doesnt consume more than it should rofl, its not using magical watts that come from imaginary components in my computer. And my computer is not that out of the normal on here. A lot of people run watercooling here and have overclocked cpus and or gpus.

And what pissed me off is you calling me a liar, nowhere did i lie about anything. Sure you can argue my computer is not normal and you are entitled to your opinion on that but nowhere did i lie.

And about the tri-fire, well someone very well regarded on these forums said i should be fine so i guess the only thing id like to see (again my opinion) is people to take a closer look at what the person is actually running before going all willy nilly saying yeah its fine no problem. The OP even if he took those video cards and overclocked them alot he could easily push that power supply. Or maybe say yes you should be fine unless you overclock alot and have alot of extras.

I just dont want someone to end up with a dead power supply and hopefully nothing else with it.
*sigh*

It's just hopeless. I've already explained this two times.
    
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post #99 of 109
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post #100 of 109
BTW; peripherals mainly would run off of the 12v and 5v, and IIRC the 5v won't be 90% rated more like 80-85%
Still doesn't make a huge difference tho, 6970's voltage to power draw scales horribly, thats why hes consuming a lot.
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