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How many writes before SSD slows down? - Page 2

post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
So in the case of a sandforce controller or marvell (considered to be good controllers) for example then why not just simply use an SSD without a HDD (if you do not needs TBs of space)?
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by weidass View Post
SSD's don't slow down due to cell degradation. They slow down due to poor controller management of full cells. When the cells degrade, they simply stop working, they don't get slower.
^ That.

Also most modern drives can handle >70 TB of writes before failure (generally at capacities of 128g and above).

Quote:
why not just simply use an SSD without a HDD (if you do not needs TBs of space)?
Most people need more than ~120 GB and don't have any type of network or other storage.
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post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Beers, but say in my case where it's mainly MS Word files and some pics/short clips (total space used so far is about 40GB) could I get away with only using SSD without HDD?
post #14 of 22
I think what you are looking for is Samsung F3's in Raid 0 rather than an SSD for storage.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by weidass View Post
SSD's don't slow down due to cell degradation. They slow down due to poor controller management of full cells. When the cells degrade, they simply stop working, they don't get slower.
Correct, but its not really poorly designed/poor management, the material only lasts so long when circuitry is run through it.
There are so many writes and then it just wears out.
Its in the billions/trillions I believe.

So basically, pending use, they will last years to several years.
Enjoy'em while their alive! Haha.
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post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by qadri View Post
So in the case of a sandforce controller or marvell (considered to be good controllers) for example then why not just simply use an SSD without a HDD (if you do not needs TBs of space)?
Ideally, you want to keep as much free space on an SSD as possible. This is so that the space can be wear-leveled easily, and so that the controller can more appropriately group data together.

One thing that must be considered regarding SSD's is that they all have "pages" of data. If any data within the page is edited, the whole page must be re-written. Pages are typically 512kb to 2mb.

If you have an SSD that is 75% full, it's very possible that the data is fragmented enough to where you have no free pages. You just have a bunch of partially used ones. This is where you get the slowdowns - as the SSD writes to hundreds of small files a second, it also has to read a bunch of pages, combine the new data with the old data into new pages, and rewrite it.

Another slowdown cause is the fact that SSD's don't actually delete data from pages when the data is deleted on the computer - they just remove the reference from it. When those pages need to have new data written to them, the drive has to first erase the old data from the page, then write the new data. It takes a good deal of extra time to do this process. TRIM takes care of it, provided you have the right OS and proper idle time. If not, you'll need a good controller. Intellix-based drives are terrible in this respect. SF-1200 drives are ok. SF-2500 drives mitigate this issue altogether.

A good controller (such as the SF 2500) has all the tools necessary to work with a drive even when it is "dirty" with undeleted data and partially used pages. You'll basically never see a slowdown with those SSD's, no matter the usage patterns.

Everything I said could be wrong, but that is my current understanding of how they work.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
That's very interesting. So say you kept 25% free at all times and had a good controller with TRIM enables, could you have a SSD alone without HDD for long term use?
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post

Everything I said could be wrong, but that is my current understanding of how they work.
No I think your rather accurate.
I did a bunch of reading on them, and you want to keep atleast 20-30% of free space for optimal performance and life.
I have about 91GB free (167GB usable) on mine and I won't go much farther past that anytime soon... damn Rift and WoW eat up 50GB or so (all thats on there besides my OS) and I don't even barely (and i mean barely) play them anymore! I think I am losing my mind.
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post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by qadri View Post
That's very interesting. So say you kept 25% free at all times and had a good controller with TRIM enables, could you have a SSD alone without HDD for long term use?
I would say so. Even without TRIM support, my two Callisto drives have been running in my server just fine. The Vertex was terrible (note, it is an original Vertex with the Intellix controller), as write speeds dropped to 2-4MB/s. The Callisto's are staying around 30-40MB/s write speed, despite CONSTANT usage on the server (worst-case scenario). They're still loads faster than the Velociraptor drive I was using previously.

So yeah, I would just try to keep it below 75% full, and you should be fine. Even above that, it'll still be faster than a HDD, just not as fast as it technically *should* be.
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
That's great news. The idea of an extra HDD is going to be dropped then. I might just keep my old one HDD temporary internet files, cache but all else on the SDD.

Should your write speed not be over 200MB/s though??
Edited by qadri - 4/21/11 at 4:32am
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