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Will/is your aging dual core bottlenecking your new graphics card? - Page 3

post #21 of 44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post
Having just read through the results of your benching I'm completely lost as to what you make this out to be for a 'guide'.

A lot of your results show:

*The GPU is operating give/take exactly how it should with both cards do to clock speeds and architecture.

*The results are skewed because of obvious inequalities between both setups.

*The work is appreciated but I think you should be more clear with your representation.

In my opinion it's true that certain games fair better with certain setups, as somewhat proven with Black Ops (by your results). But let's say you were able to run your E8200 @ 4.4 or 4.8Ghz, I'm willing to bet the scores would be closer in games like SC2 when you have eye candy applied. Even with @ 3.8 with quite a few games, the 5850 is no slouch on either CPU.

Yes, it's obvious from your results that the 2500K exploits much better FPS minimums and averages with two total benefits: Two extra cores, and 1Ghz more clock speed.

Anyways....
It isn't a comparison. It's a test to see how much an E8xxx bottlenecks a modern graphics card.

I don't see how the results are skewed.

I believe you've missed the point. The E8200 isn't supposed to fight the i5, it's supposed to represent the average dual core CPU with a high end graphics card and show the obvious flaws with such a system. This kind of PC is very normal because people don't realize how much a dual core bottlenecks even an HD 6970 so I'm showing why people shouldn't buy a high-end graphics card when all they have is a dual core (except maybe if they have an i3). I recall a thread where people recommended a guy to buy an HD 6970 to go with his E7200. He'll be missing about 50% of the HD 6970's performance, yet people still recommend it as "the GPU is more important than CPU".
Edited by B!0HaZard - 5/1/11 at 3:23am
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post #22 of 44
No, I get your point and I understand.

But - the graphics card, and especially something like a 5850 - is meant to be pushed. It's meant to use AA, AF, AO, etc.

So when you say it's 'bottlenecked' by a dual core, your tests prove and show that it's not in quite a few of your results.
    
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post #23 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post
No, I get your point and I understand.

But - the graphics card, and especially something like a 5850 - is meant to be pushed. It's meant to use AA, AF, AO, etc.

So when you say it's 'bottlenecked' by a dual core, your tests prove and show that it's not in quite a few of your results.
Well, the average performance increase at 1920x1200, max settings + AA and AF is 44%. That in itself is a sign of a huge bottleneck in my opinion. If we ignore SC2 and Black Ops which saw the biggest increases, we still get 33% on average.

But that isn't the whole story. I assume that people won't be playing games at less than 30 FPS, so if the HD 5850 isn't capable of solid framerates, then I go for one of the lower settings. You said, the HD 5850 is meant to be pushed, but it's not designed to run at 20 FPS. Few want to play an FPS at 20 FPS if they could reduce AA and get smooth framerates.

For that reason, I don't consider the highest settings in Metro 2033 playable and assume most people would want to reduce AA. By doing that, they achieve playable framerates, but OTOH see more CPU dependency. So when I had to determine whether Metro was bottlenecked, I went by the "1920x1200, max settings, AAA, AF x4" run, not the highest settings. In that run, the E8200 was bottlenecking the GPU so I consider the E8200 a bit slow for Metro. As can be seen from my benching, it won't allow high FPS no matter how low your graphics settings are which is a HUGE problem. At 1280x720, the E8200 can't get an 60 FPS avg and for people who require that 60 FPS, that is a bottleneck worth getting rid of. I personally wouldn't play at even those settings (I played at 1680x1050 for better performance). Also note that all the runs had DOF disabled (because almost no one uses this very subtle effect) meaning that I could've pushed the HD 5850 even more making the game less playable. There is a point where using a setting is pointless and I consider it pointless to use numbers where I don't achieve playable framerates.

The same thing applies to BC2 where I don't consider the maxed out E8200 run playable, Black Ops where none of the E8200 runs were playable (or rather, none of them were enjoyable to play) and Crysis where neither of the maxed out runs were playable.



Anyway, this is a review, it's based on my opinions. I could've said "the E8200 is a piece of crap" with no evidence like most people do or I could provide these numbers, express my opinion and ultimately let you decide whether you agree. If you think that Metro is playable at max settings with an average of 25 FPS (I don't think it is) and if you think buying an HD 5850 for that is worth it despite knowing you'd get better performance in other games with a stronger CPU and weaker GPU, then be my guest. Hell, go out and get a GTX 580 for that dual core, 'cause it will give you better FPS at max settings than an i5 + HD 5850. I'm just here to mention that even with a GTX 580, you won't break 50 FPS at any setting in Metro because your CPU is too slow.
Edited by B!0HaZard - 5/1/11 at 4:06am
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post #24 of 44
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Ok, ran the SC2 bench at 3.8 GHz. Average FPS was 42 and minimum was 20. So average was 10 lower than at 4.8 GHz, but still 20 higher than the E8200 and the minimum FPS was actually high enough to not ruin immersion as opposed to the E8200's minimum of 5 FPS. It's still a huge loss for the E8200, showing it's weakness.
Edited by B!0HaZard - 5/1/11 at 4:32am
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post #25 of 44
Some things are relative, game dependent, and setting dependent. That's all I'm trying to point out.

The bottleneck term is thrown around heavily and often while it's loose relation to actual performance is shown very poorly most of the time.

See my other issue is, although you're not 'technically' comparing the E8200 with the 2500K, it looks that way because of how you have it defined and graphed and because you associate a percentage of increased performance between the two.

Not to mention that your percentage of increase between the two are significantly skewed in my personal opinion. Take the Sandy down to 3.8 and see what the percentage difference is then - I'm willing to bet it's still a good percentage but not quite 33% on average.
    
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post #26 of 44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post
Some things are relative, game dependent, and setting dependent. That's all I'm trying to point out.

The bottleneck term is thrown around heavily and often while it's loose relation to actual performance is shown very poorly most of the time.

See my other issue is, although you're not 'technically' comparing the E8200 with the 2500K, it looks that way because of how you have it defined and graphed and because you associate a percentage of increased performance between the two.

Not to mention that your percentage of increase between the two are significantly skewed in my personal opinion. Take the Sandy down to 3.8 and see what the percentage difference is then - I'm willing to bet it's still a good percentage but not quite 33% on average.
Yeah, I tried to avoid making too much fuzz about it being an i5 and such, but I feel I need to actually point out what kind of equipment I'm using. Nothing worse than a test where you don't know what setup is being used. I point out multiple times that it's not a direct comparison, but rather a comparison between an old(ish) dual core and no bottleneck (being anything from Phenom II X4 to an i7 990X as long as it doesn't bottleneck the GPU). I didn't achieve a 100% GPU bottleneck in SC2 though which is sad as it makes the result a bit invalid. SC2 certainly wasn't GPU bottlenecked.

Depends entirely on the resolution. At high resolutions, it'd only change very little. At low resolutions I'd probably see a nice big drop in performance compared to 4.8 GHz.
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post #27 of 44
I went from a Dual-core Athlon 5800+ (Windsor 2.8GHz) to sig rig now. If anything I'm bottlenecked with my GPU, but I plan on upgrading it when I can. For now though, the 2500k has actually made a noticeable improvement for most of my games. I got the CPU for futureproofing myself, regardless of what else is coming soon (Ivy/Bulldozer, etc). It's still an upgrade for me and it's plenty of power.

Thanks for the comparisons, it's still very useful information to some, if not, most users.
post #28 of 44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightz2k View Post
I went from a Dual-core Athlon 5800+ (Windsor 2.8GHz) to sig rig now. If anything I'm bottlenecked with my GPU, but I plan on upgrading it when I can. For now though, the 2500k has actually made a noticeable improvement for most of my games. I got the CPU for futureproofing myself, regardless of what else is coming soon (Ivy/Bulldozer, etc). It's still an upgrade for me and it's plenty of power.

Thanks for the comparisons, it's still very useful information to some, if not, most users.
No problem!

Yeah, it's opened my eyes. I certainly learned that the CPU is the foundation and the GPU comes second. Without a good CPU, a fast GPU won't be able to do what it's supposed to.
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post #29 of 44
Nice
Reminds me how my 9800gt was useless on a sempy but perfectly fine on a Q83
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post #30 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by B!0HaZard View Post
No problem!

Yeah, it's opened my eyes. I certainly learned that the CPU is the foundation and the GPU comes second. Without a good CPU, a fast GPU won't be able to do what it's supposed to.
You just have to find a balance. Your CPU is as good as it gets for gaming, but your GPU isn't going to allow you to max games at the frames your CPU can produce.

If someone doesn't plan on upgrading their system very often, a very decent CPU with a better GPU would work better for maxing games.

What settings for Starcraft 2? You should be GPU limited in that if you're running it on Extreme. Your card isn't that much better then mine in current games\\SC2. You can force AA if you want to up GPU usage and see how it goes.

Does the 5850 support SSAO in SC2? I know it was something that had to be added in nVidias drivers, so I'm not sure if AMD added it yet.
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