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[RP] Here’s Why We Shouldn’t Worry About iPhone/Android Location Tracking - Page 13

post #121 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Maybe I would be better off Amish.

So...where does it say that phones are essential, again? You said that the fees we pay on our phone bills means that phones are an essential service, yet I fail to see where that is, exactly, as none of the fees even imply that one must have cell phone or home phone service. You keep saying that people NEED phone service (I'm assuming you mean cell phones?) to work and feed their families, yet so many people still get by just fine without them. Cell phones are a luxury, plain and simple, and the fact that we feel like we always need access to talk to people, check email, check facebook statuses, etc. is an entirely different story.

Not making any comments on your age, but if you grew up before cell phones were prevalent, you'd probably recognize how easy it is to get along without one. They make things more convenient, but they're far from essential. I'd say general access to the internet is more essential than having a cell phone.

Seems like this thread has been sufficiently derailed...
I'm well aware that people survived just fine before phones and electricity. But that doesn't mean you can today. Unless you live out in the country and feed off the land... How can you get a job without a phone today? It's essential in that you need it to keep in touch with friends and family as well as your employer. People don't all live in the same small town anymore. Families live across the world now. It's not as easy as going next door or down the road anymore. No one said checking your facebook status was essential. The 911 service fee is just one example of why phone service is essential just as running water is.

Can you pick out which utility is mentioned in this sentence: "The CPUC regulates privately owned electric, natural gas, telecommunications, water, railroad, rail transit, and passenger transportation companies"?
post #122 of 140
Thread Starter 
Telecommunications is not exclusively mobile phones.

In fact Guy is right, mobiles are not a necessity. You mentioned that you need one for a job/bank account/credit card and that is completely false. You don't a mobile for any of those things.

Companies can also run just fine by using a land line (which is telecommunications) and a mobile phone is still a luxury, not an essential item.

I also agree with Guy in regards to the internet being an essential as it is needed for educational requirements.

A mobile phone is not required for anything, although it is useful and convenient for many things. You seem to be crossing those wires.
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post #123 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post
I also agree with Guy in regards to the internet being an essential as it is needed for educational requirements.

A mobile phone is not required for anything, although it is useful and convenient for many things. You seem to be crossing those wires.
You can get an education without internet access.

Phones and the internet are ubiquitous. How many people do you know without either?

The entire argument here is that a device that is essential invades privacy, so you can't easily just drop it like its hot. Replace "essential" with "extremely beneficial" and it still makes its point. To assume that people go without phone access if they choose not to be tracked is like saying they can go without eating meat if they choose not to be tracked.
Edited by _02 - 4/25/11 at 2:39pm
    
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post #124 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post
Telecommunications is not exclusively mobile phones.

In fact Guy is right, mobiles are not a necessity. You mentioned that you need one for a job/bank account/credit card and that is completely false. You don't a mobile for any of those things.

Companies can also run just fine by using a land line (which is telecommunications) and a mobile phone is still a luxury, not an essential item.

I also agree with Guy in regards to the internet being an essential as it is needed for educational requirements.

A mobile phone is not required for anything, although it is useful and convenient for many things. You seem to be crossing those wires.
If your job is shoveling manure out on a farm, you probably don't need any kind of phone, but wired or wireless, you need one form of it. You certainly don't need it to to survive like you need food, water and oxygen but unless you plan to be a shut-in your whole life or work out on the farm you're going to need a phone of some kind.

We can go on arguing about how you can manage to live without one thing or another but they're taxed and regulated as an essential service. How do you think that wireless service is connected once it reaches the tower? It couldn't possibly be using the same telecommunication company's wired lines that are maintained by tax dollars now could it?
post #125 of 140
Quote:
If some shady hacker type steals my iPhone
If its some hacker I'm sure they are smart enough to do one of two things, one, steal passwords and ditch the phone, or hack the system to disable the system.
    
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post #126 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
You can get an education without internet access.
IIRC there are now standards in place for all schools in first world countries to have sufficient internet access for pupils because it is an irreplaceable tool of unlimited educational value.

How many government initiatives are pushing for every school kid to have access to mobile phones?

I'm not saying just because a government says so, that it should be considered fact. But I can see how the internet is classed as a a necessity in this era and a mobile phone isn't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
If your job is shoveling manure out on a farm, you probably don't need any kind of phone, but wired or wireless, you need one form of it. You certainly don't need it to to survive like you need food, water and oxygen but unless you plan to be a shut-in your whole life or work out on the farm you're going to need a phone of some kind.

We can go on arguing about how you can manage to live without one thing or another but they're taxed and regulated as an essential service. How do you think that wireless service is connected once it reaches the tower? It couldn't possibly be using the same telecommunication company's wired lines that are maintained by tax dollars now could it?
You're arguing that telecommunications is essential, that I agree with. A mobile phone? I disagree.

A land line is pretty much essential for any business, but not a mobile phone.
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post #127 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadarocker View Post
If its some hacker I'm sure they are smart enough to do one of two things, one, steal passwords and ditch the phone, or hack the system to disable the system.
God forbid they're smart enough to figure out airplane mode:
post #128 of 140
Only problem is they can turn on the microphone and take pictures even when the phone is turned off. Only if the battery is dead (completely) or completely removed can it not be accessed.
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post #129 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
I'm well aware that people survived just fine before phones and electricity. But that doesn't mean you can today. Unless you live out in the country and feed off the land... How can you get a job without a phone today? It's essential in that you need it to keep in touch with friends and family as well as your employer. People don't all live in the same small town anymore. Families live across the world now. It's not as easy as going next door or down the road anymore. No one said checking your facebook status was essential. The 911 service fee is just one example of why phone service is essential just as running water is.
The 911 service fee actually goes against your argument--it is to subsidize the universal access to the 911 line REGARDLESS of whether someone has phone service. You don't need phone service to have access to 911, as you can plug in any land-line phone into any land-line phone outlet and have access to 911. Same with a cell phone that is not on any active cell phone plan, 911 works WITHOUT phone service. You could then argue that if everyone stopped paying for their phone service, then 911 service would go away, except that it would just be subsidized with some other fees from somewhere else. But that doesn't make cell phones essential. The main point is that you can say a cell phone is essential, but you cannot make the jump that saying "my iphone is essential to me, therefore it should be illegal for XX company to track my geographical locations when I use it." When if you don't like the fact that your iphone tracks you, you have lots of other mobile phone alternatives to choose from. (getting back to the original point.)

Regarding work and a cell phone--this is entirely dependent upon situations, and if a cell phone is REALLY required for work, then okay--so what? It's not being imposed on you by any governing body, so it's still your CHOICE to use it, and your RIGHT to not use it. My employer has yet to contact me on my private phone regarding work requirements, and it's typically unacceptable for an employer to require or even expect an employee to use their private phone for work purposes (unless it's specifically stated that they'll be subsidized/reimbursed for it). Email, sure, but via the phone--not unless I'm traveling, and explicitly for work, in which case they subsidize the phone costs (where one can get a pre-paid or pay-as-you-go phone for the specific work requirement, should they need one for work while traveling).
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
Can you pick out which utility is mentioned in this sentence: of this discussion)."The CPUC regulates privately owned electric, natural gas, telecommunications, water, railroad, rail transit, and passenger transportation companies"?
Did you even read beyond the main page of the CPUC website? They never mention cell phone service, and they only work to ensure fair access to affordable home phone service, and even then, it doesn't deem it essential, only that everyone should have fair access to it regardless of economic conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
You can get an education without internet access.

Phones and the internet are ubiquitous. How many people do you know without either?

The entire argument here is that a device that is essential invades privacy, so you can't easily just drop it like its hot. Replace "essential" with "extremely beneficial" and it still makes its point. To assume that people go without phone access if they choose not to be tracked is like saying they can go without eating meat if they choose not to be tracked.
The point, though, is that a user has the choice of which device to use--let's assume that, so far, only iphone and various android devices actually implement this tracking ability. There are other cell phone handset options that people can choose from, so even if someone considers a phone to be "essential," there are still other options to choose from. Albeit lame options with admittedly fewer features, but functional nonetheless.
    
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post #130 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post
You're arguing that telecommunications is essential, that I agree with. A mobile phone? I disagree.

A land line is pretty much essential for any business, but not a mobile phone.
Wired or Wireless, same thing. It's a phone service. Next thing someone will be arguing over digital or analog...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post
IIRC there are now standards in place for all schools in first world countries to have sufficient internet access for pupils because it is an irreplaceable tool of unlimited educational value.
Last I recalled, Obama was trying to push the broadband initiative to make broadband an essential service to be available to everyone in the US.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KusH View Post
Only problem is they can turn on the microphone and take pictures even when the phone is turned off. Only if the battery is dead (completely) or completely removed can it not be accessed.
If they could remotely turn on the mic or camera then it would still be connected to the cell network which you're required to disconnect from and not send any signals during taking off/landing. That would seem to defeat the purpose of Airplane mode.


Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Did you even read beyond the main page of the CPUC website? They never mention cell phone service, and they only work to ensure fair access to affordable home phone service, and even then, it doesn't deem it essential, only that everyone should have fair access to it regardless of economic conditions.
We can go on arguing about how you can manage to live without one thing or another but they're still taxed and regulated as an essential service. How do you think that wireless service is connected once it reaches the tower? It couldn't possibly be using the same telecommunication company's wired lines that are maintained by tax dollars now could it?
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 4/25/11 at 4:53pm
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