[Bethesda] Daggerfall: Now available for free! - Page 3 - Overclock.net

JKBenchmarks · 07-10-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathris

http://www.fileshack.com/file.x/1475...ll+Free+Client

Mirror for those that don't like downloading at 12kb/s

Lol, I was about to ask where to find a faster link, thanks.

+rep

*VulcanDragon* · 07-10-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless

it's true that a lot of Arena and Daggerfall were more or less meaningless expanses. However, I think the current trend of scaling whole nations to fit within 10-20 square miles is just as bad, if not worse.

It's bad if they shrink it down too much, I agree. The idea needs to be to balance the main plot areas with expanses of non-plot areas, but no area should be devoid of something to do. I actually think Oblivion's size feels about right...if you walk without stopping, yes you can get all the way across the map faster than is realistic. But who cares...fast travel isn't realistic anyway. What I like about it is that it does feel open in individual places, but there is always something (dungeon, ruins, town, whatever) over the next hill or two. You never really get lost "in the middle of nowhere" with absolutely nothing around you of any interest.

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Also, when the largest City in Tamriel is a few hundred yards across and has a population on the order of 150, something just does not feel right.

City poulation is an issue I have with Oblivion, but honestly you get it in most RPGs. Again, it comes back to actual content...as a matter of course, RPG developers only put NPCs in that have something to contribute to the game in at least a small way. Otherwise it's wasted development effort, not to mention confusing to the player. I could see an RPG with a fully populated city a la Assassin's Creed, full of dynamic, random, meaningless NPCs...but how do you know who the "real" NPCs are to interact with? I'm sure it can be done, it just hasn't been tackled yet.

Playapplepie · 07-10-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless

Daggerfall is over 63,000 square miles. That's 6,000 times the size of Morrowind and 4,000 times the size of Oblivion.

This may be true, however the enitre landscpae was randomly generated. Bethesda didn't spend their time creating the whole 63,00 square miles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless

What OS are you installing it in?

I installed it under Windows 7 using DosBox. I ran Dosbox as an admin and tried again, then it worked.

WeirdSexy · 07-10-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradox me

I have a similar feeling for Morrowind. It's regarded as the best in TES series, and I haven't played it in years, but I just don't see what was so amazing about it. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, though I did spend several hours each time I attempted to play, but it was just boring.

I've put 1000 hours or more into Morrowind, such a fantastic game. If you mess with some modern mods for it the only thing that will look "bad" even by today's standards are the character animations, which are god awful. Until I installed win7 I was playing it heavily modded and with MGE and it was beautiful.

Blameless · 07-10-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by VulcanDragon

It's bad if they shrink it down too much, I agree. The idea needs to be to balance the main plot areas with expanses of non-plot areas, but no area should be devoid of something to do. I actually think Oblivion's size feels about right...if you walk without stopping, yes you can get all the way across the map faster than is realistic. But who cares...fast travel isn't realistic anyway. What I like about it is that it does feel open in individual places, but there is always something (dungeon, ruins, town, whatever) over the next hill or two. You never really get lost "in the middle of nowhere" with absolutely nothing around you of any interest.

It's not so much about "realism" as the feel of the game. I guess it comes down to personal preference. Now, I don't think all that space should go to waste, but always having something to do, just over the next hill, feels overly contrived to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VulcanDragon

City poulation is an issue I have with Oblivion, but honestly you get it in most RPGs. Again, it comes back to actual content...as a matter of course, RPG developers only put NPCs in that have something to contribute to the game in at least a small way. Otherwise it's wasted development effort, not to mention confusing to the player. I could see an RPG with a fully populated city a la Assassin's Creed, full of dynamic, random, meaningless NPCs...but how do you know who the "real" NPCs are to interact with? I'm sure it can be done, it just hasn't been tackled yet.

I don't think it's necessary, or even desireable for all NPCs to tie into some greater plot or quest. I like filler NPCs, if only for the immersion.

*VulcanDragon* · 07-10-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless

It's not so much about "realism" as the feel of the game. I guess it comes down to personal preference. Now, I don't think all that space should go to waste, but always having something to do, just over the next hill, feels overly contrived to me.

The "always something to do" is important to me, since it is supposed to be a game after all. But it is a matter of preference, I admit. I personally don't like having to hunt forever to find the next main quest point, much less just to find something interesting to do...but that's just me.

Quote:

I don't think it's necessary, or even desireable for all NPCs to tie into some greater plot or quest. I like filler NPCs, if only for the immersion.

Me either, but neither can we let the forest get lost within the trees. In a city filled with thousands of NPCs, it could be difficult to find the five NPCs that actually have anything real to do with the game unless we put a big shiny arrow over their head, or something. Maybe that's a good solution, I don't know...but I do know that having to ask 100 filler NPCs, all with nothing whatsoever to say, where the "real" NPC is would get tiresome really quickly.

nathris · 07-10-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by VulcanDragon

Yes, this was back from the days when developers thought that bigger meant better. I remember RPGs, especially NES RPGs, that advertised how many hours it would take you to finish on the back of the box, as if it were a feature of the game (100 hours of gameplay!)

It says

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100+ hours of exciting new gameplay from the bloodmoon and tribunal expansions

on my copy of Morrowind GOTY.

Elder Scrolls has always been about the amount of hours you can put into it.

The one thing I didn't like about Oblivion was the towns. Some of them, like Skingrad were actually pretty good, but the Imperial City was designed basically be one big structure, everything was exactly the same, and it was small :/

I don't see why they couldn't have just replaced some of the wilderness with residential areas and slums. Just replace the wolves and mud crabs with thieves and cutthroats and replace the caves with sewers and abandoned houses

T3h_Ch33z_Muncha · 07-10-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by VulcanDragon

Yes, this was back from the days when developers thought that bigger meant better. I remember RPGs, especially NES RPGs, that advertised how many hours it would take you to finish on the back of the box, as if it were a feature of the game (100 hours of gameplay!)

Fortunately, we and developers have grown since then. 63,000 square miles of pointless and/or random "content" does not equal quality. Arena non-main dungeons were 100% random...ugh. Daggerfall dungeons were modularized, which is better than randomized but still not exactly "fresh content".

Same thing for me with Arena. Or I should say, I knew it was there but did not realize how integral to actually getting anywhere in the game it would be. I was born and bred on Ultima and Wizardry, and skipping over huge portions of the map was just anathema to me. Heck, I even started Oblivion that way...I only recently started using fast travel as an everyday tool, I'm still in old-school "walk everywhere" mode by default.

Get a horse. lol.

*VulcanDragon* · 07-11-09

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Originally Posted by T3h_Ch33z_Muncha

Get a horse. lol.

A horse is more of a PITA hindrance than helpful. Harder to control than walking, cannot fight while mounted, and it's not that much faster to boot.

Playapplepie · 07-11-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by VulcanDragon

A horse is more of a PITA hindrance than helpful. Harder to control than walking, cannot fight while mounted, and it's not that much faster to boot.

Use the speed cheat then. Makes you run 6000 times faster than normal. I used it and i was like.....VROOOOOOM.

However if you come to an enemy they will have the cheat enabled to them also. No escaping them.

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[Bethesda] Daggerfall: Now available for free!

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