Overclock.net - Overclocking.net
     
 
Home Gallery Reviews Blogs Register Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Members List


Go Back   Overclock.net - Overclocking.net > Cooling > Water Cooling

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-19-07   #1 (permalink)
Turing Test is Overrated
 
DuckieHo's Avatar
 
intel nvidia

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In a Chair.
Posts: 23,128

Rep: 2696 DuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legend
Unique Rep: 1248
Trader Rating: 33
Default Info: Pump Head vs Flow Rate

On every single water pump, flow rate and pump head are the two most important specifications. Flow rate is how much water can be moved in time period without any restriction. This value is usually given in gallons per hour (GPH), liters per hour (LPH). A benchmarking procedure would be simply to see how much water can be moved from one tank to another in a hour. Head is how high or hard water can be pushed at full load. This value is usually given in feet or meters. A benchmarking test would be to see high the pump can push water in a thin vertical tube.

All pumps list their pump rate but not all pumps list their head. Why? Flow rate is usually a nice big number... but is an absolutely useless value without a head value. You will never use a pump in a watercooling loop without any restriction. Waterblocks and tubing bends all create restriction. For example, a pump lists its pump rate at 1000GPH but has only 1ft of head. Any type of restriction would seriously drop the actually flow rate. If there is enough restriction, the pump may not actually move any water. While the pump can push the water very fast, it simply cannot push the water hard enough.



Here is another example of an actual pump. The solid black line is for the Danger Den - DDC-12V REV2 "PLUS" while the blue line is for an imaginary pump. The DDC-12v has a flow rate of 425 LPH and a head of 3.5m. In a empty tank without restriction, it can move 425 LPH. On the other hand, it can lift a column of water 3.5m vertically but it will not be moving any water since that is full restriction. Real world performance would obviously full some where between these two points. You want your water to be moving but the loop will have restriction. The imaginary pump has a has a flow rate of 425 LPH but a head of 1m. Let say is would require .5m of head overcome all restriction and move water. The DDC-12V would still be moving water at 390 LPH but the other pump would be doing only 275 LPH. If there was .99m of restriction, the DDC-12V would be at 350 LPH and the other pump would be at near 0 LPH. Be sure to check for head and don't be fooled by high flow pumps!
Attached Thumbnails
info-pump-head-vs-flow-rate-manu_flow_chart_448w.jpg  
__________________
To answer most of your questions: (1) a fridge cannot cool a PC (2) 64-bit OS for over 3GB or so (3) PCIe 2.0 is backwards compatible with PCIe 1.x (4) Resolution, not screen size (5) If you have a question, it is not news (6) Read TOS (7) Report, not respond to Spam (8) Uninstall nTune (9) Single/Non-Modular Rail PSUs are NOT better than Multi-Rail/Modular (10) Edward is the Law!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brythe View Post
But I still dont get it, whats the thing between the chair and the desk?

edit: got it..haha..its meee

System: My "DF-DIE" Replacement
CPU
Q6600 (3.7GHz)
Motherboard
Asus P5E X38 (MF1208 BIOS)
Memory
2x2GB OCZ Reaper 1096MHz
Graphics Card
8800GT (729/1836/2088)
Hard Drive
PERC 5/i: 3xRAID0 Raptor 74GB + 7200.10 250GB
Sound Card
X-Fi XtremeMusic
Power Supply
Corsair 620HX
Case
Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans]
CPU cooling
FuZion V2 + Quad-Heatercore
GPU cooling
MCW60 + Iandh HS + DDC-3.2
OS
Vista Ultimate 64
Monitor
Samsung 226BW "C" + Sceptre 19"
DuckieHo is offline Overclocked Account DuckieHo's Gallery   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-07   #2 (permalink)
Habitual Tinkerer
 
ira-k's Avatar
 
intel nvidia

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 14,233

FAQs Submitted: 1
Trader Rating: 9
Default

A easy way to think of "Head" is to think of it as pressure....Which it's not,but the higher the head the more easily a pump can can push more water through the loop....Most good WC pumps have at least 9' of "Head" and up...

System: My System
CPU
E8600 4545Mhz*9 w/1.29V
Motherboard
DFI DK P35
Memory
2x1024 D9GMH
Graphics Card
XFX 8800 GS
Hard Drive
2x Seagate 160 Perp. RD-1
Power Supply
Corsair HX 620
Case
Open Bench
CPU cooling
Stinger V-8P 320W TEC ,20RZ Iwaki,480 GTX
GPU cooling
Air
OS
Vista Premium
ira-k is offline Overclocked Account ira-k's Gallery   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-07   #3 (permalink)
AMD Overclocker
 
mxrider450's Avatar
 
nvidia

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 41

Rep: 1 mxrider450 Unknown
Unique Rep: 1
Trader Rating: 0
Default

I think Flow rate is overrated, i only get about 180 gph but i have a head rate of 22' and a max 14 psi. But i have no problems.
__________________
System: Opteron 165 @ 2.925ghz
CPU
AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Opteron 165 Denmark
Motherboard
DFI Lanparty N4 SLI-DR
Memory
2x512MB GEIL ONE SERIES (2.5-3-3-5)
Graphics Card
XFX GeForce 7800GTX 256mb X2
Hard Drive
122.9GB - Maxtor + 160.0 GB Western Digital
Sound Card
Karajan Nvidia Audio Onboard
Power Supply
Enermax Noisetaker 600W
Case
Supermini
CPU cooling
CustomBuilt WaterCool
GPU cooling
stock with extra fans.
OS
Windows XP
Monitor
20.1 in Samsung 204B

Last edited by mxrider450 : 01-20-07 at 03:42 PM.
mxrider450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-07   #4 (permalink)
AWAY FROM OVERCLOCK.NET
 
d3daiM's Avatar
 
intel nvidia

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Salinas, CA
Posts: 6,779
Blog Entries: 1

Rep: 466 d3daiM is a proven memberd3daiM is a proven memberd3daiM is a proven memberd3daiM is a proven memberd3daiM is a proven member
Unique Rep: 294
FAQs Submitted: 2
Folding Team Rank: 107
Hardware Reviews: 2
Trader Rating: 10
Default

Some excellent info.

rep +
__________________

Lian Li V2000 Case | MCP655 Pump Chrome Mod | Danger Den Maze4 | Swiftech Apogee | Aqua-Computer Airplex Evo Pro Xtreme 240
Tygon Ultra-Soft 1/2" Tubing | Thermaltake Bigwater Coolant | SilenX iXtrema Pro Fans | Chipforce Chipset Cooler


System: New Mod?
CPU
Intel Q6600 G0 SLACR
Motherboard
DFI LanParty DK P35-T2RS
Memory
2gb Patriot Extreme Performance PC-6400 800mhz
Graphics Card
nVidia BFG 8800GT OC2 512mb
Hard Drive
3X WD Caviar SE 250GB RAID 5
Sound Card
Modified Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
Power Supply
Antec NeoPower 650W
Case
Teak Wooden Desk
CPU cooling
Swiftech Apogee Waterblock
GPU cooling
Danger Den Maze4 Waterblock
OS
Windows XP Professional SP3
Monitor
Sceptre 24" X24WG-1080 & Sceptre 22" X22WG-Gamer
d3daiM is offline I fold for Overclock.net Overclocked Account d3daiM's Gallery   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-07   #5 (permalink)
Turing Test is Overrated
 
DuckieHo's Avatar
 
intel nvidia

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In a Chair.
Posts: 23,128

Rep: 2696 DuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legendDuckieHo is a legend
Unique Rep: 1248
Trader Rating: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxrider450 View Post
I think Flow rate is overrated, i only get about 180 gph but i have a head rate of 22' and a max 14 psi. But i have no problems.
180GPH = 681LPH
22' = 6.7m

You get only more head and flow rate than the D5 or DDC-12V. What pump do you use?
__________________
To answer most of your questions: (1) a fridge cannot cool a PC (2) 64-bit OS for over 3GB or so (3) PCIe 2.0 is backwards compatible with PCIe 1.x (4) Resolution, not screen size (5) If you have a question, it is not news (6) Read TOS (7) Report, not respond to Spam (8) Uninstall nTune (9) Single/Non-Modular Rail PSUs are NOT better than Multi-Rail/Modular (10) Edward is the Law!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brythe View Post
But I still dont get it, whats the thing between the chair and the desk?

edit: got it..haha..its meee

System: My "DF-DIE" Replacement
CPU
Q6600 (3.7GHz)
Motherboard
Asus P5E X38 (MF1208 BIOS)
Memory
2x2GB OCZ Reaper 1096MHz
Graphics Card
8800GT (729/1836/2088)
Hard Drive
PERC 5/i: 3xRAID0 Raptor 74GB + 7200.10 250GB
Sound Card
X-Fi XtremeMusic
Power Supply
Corsair 620HX
Case
Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans]
CPU cooling
FuZion V2 + Quad-Heatercore
GPU cooling
MCW60 + Iandh HS + DDC-3.2
OS
Vista Ultimate 64
Monitor
Samsung 226BW "C" + Sceptre 19"
DuckieHo is offline Overclocked Account DuckieHo's Gallery   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-07   #6 (permalink)
Habitual Tinkerer
 
ira-k's Avatar
 
intel nvidia

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 14,233

FAQs Submitted: 1
Trader Rating: 9
Default

Sounds like an Iwaki WMD/MD 20 RLZ.....Good pumps...

System: My System
CPU
E8600 4545Mhz*9 w/1.29V
Motherboard
DFI DK P35
Memory
2x1024 D9GMH
Graphics Card
XFX 8800 GS
Hard Drive
2x Seagate 160 Perp. RD-1
Power Supply
Corsair HX 620
Case
Open Bench
CPU cooling
Stinger V-8P 320W TEC ,20RZ Iwaki,480 GTX
GPU cooling
Air
OS
Vista Premium
ira-k is offline Overclocked Account ira-k's Gallery   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-07   #7 (permalink)
AMD Overclocker
 
amd nvidia

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,129

Rep: 87 Mastacator is acknowledged by some
Unique Rep: 64
Trader Rating: 1
Default

Nice info Duckie!

Its always more worthwhile to have more "feet of head" in reference to a pumps capabilities. Flow rate will follow if you've got good head pressure.

Feet of Head is a measurement of pressure though.....

It takes 0.433psi to lift a column of water 1 foot. That means 3 feet of head = 1.299psi

Going back to the pump flow curve Duckie posted.....
Since Gpm is usually used, here in the US, for hydraulic calculations, it will be used, as that is what I use everyday.
The pump flows 425Lph (Liters per hour), which is equals 1.87Gpm (gallons per minute), at 0 feet of head, or 0 pressure. Well, we will never have 0 pressure, right. As Duckie said, know the flow at 0 head does us little good.
Trace the curve back further so something reasonable....
265Lph @ 2m of head. OR
1.16 Gpm @ 6.56 Feet of Head

Remember above.....? (0.433Psi to lift a 1 foot column of water)

So, a 1 foot column of water exerts a pressure at the base of 0.433 Psi, therefore..

The pump is capable of a flow of 1.16Gpm @ 2.84Psi
Considering the size of an average watercooling loop...1.16Gpm is pretty substantial!

Of course the friction loss with the given waterblock(s), radiator(s), fittings, and tubing will take away from the Psi its actually flowing at, so you may be getting a flow of 1Gpm at a diminished pressure, say 1Psi.
The key though is knowing the capabilities of the pump, if it has a good feet(meter) of head, you know it will be able to handle the restrictions put into the loop and still maintain a good flow rate.

Note: The pump curve posted also shows power consumption... Notice the power consumption, in Watts, goes up with the Head pressure. The pump has to work harder as more pressure is asked/required of it.

The feet of head rating on a pump is key, to know if it will handle your waterblocks. A higher head pump would be necessary to make a Storm waterblock perform well, due to the restriction and pressure requirement of the block. An Apogee block is less restrictive and wouldn't "require" a higher head pump, but certainly isn't a bad idea to have one.
__________________
System: OpterOWN
CPU
Opteron 165 CCBBE 0610DPMW
Motherboard
Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe
Memory
2GB OCZ EL Platinum
Graphics Card
EVGA 7900GT
Hard Drive
36Gb Raptor Raid-0, 200Gb Maxtor
Sound Card
Audigy 2 ZS
Power Supply
OCZ Powerstream 520w
Case
Super Flower, with extension
CPU cooling
Custom water, see sig.
GPU cooling
Stock Air
OS
Xp Home
Monitor
19" Flat screen CRT
Mastacator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-07   #8 (permalink)
Habitual Tinkerer
 
ira-k's Avatar
 
intel nvidia

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 14,233

FAQs Submitted: 1
Trader Rating: 9
Default

It's good to know that about the PSI...Thats the way I thought of it but I thought the were a little different....I have a 22' head pump with just a CPU block in it and my pressure gauge on it is reading 5 -Psi, so that means I'm using 18ft of my head for the loop? Ouch....EDIT: Mastercator I just went and looked...This test is showing high Psi left at max head...And I know I've seen that in other tests also...Thats why I always thought of head and Psi as different...[H]ard|Forum - DDC Top & Pump Performance Comparison (Petra's, Radiical, Alphacool, etc.)

System: My System
CPU
E8600 4545Mhz*9 w/1.29V
Motherboard
DFI DK P35
Memory
2x1024 D9GMH
Graphics Card
XFX 8800 GS
Hard Drive
2x Seagate 160 Perp. RD-1
Power Supply
Corsair HX 620
Case
Open Bench
CPU cooling
Stinger V-8P 320W TEC ,20RZ Iwaki,480 GTX
GPU cooling
Air
OS
Vista Premium

Last edited by ira-k : 01-23-07 at 02:31 PM.
ira-k is offline Overclocked Account ira-k's Gallery   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-07   #9 (permalink)
AMD Overclocker
 
amd nvidia

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,129

Rep: 87 Mastacator is acknowledged by some
Unique Rep: 64
Trader Rating: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ira-k View Post
It's good to know that about the PSI...Thats the way I thought of it but I thought the were a little different....I have a 22' head pump with just a CPU block in it and my pressure gauge on it is reading 5 -Psi, so that means I'm using 18ft of my head for the loop? Ouch....EDIT: Mastercator I just went and looked...This test is showing high Psi left at max head...And I know I've seen that in other tests also...Thats why I always thought of head and Psi as different...[H]ard|Forum - DDC Top & Pump Performance Comparison (Petra's, Radiical, Alphacool, etc.)
You've got the stinger with the "jetted barb" inlet on it right? Thats why your pressure has been eaten up, that jet makes alot of backpressure/friction. Your guage may not be completely accurate either. Good thing you've got that much head from the pump to start with though!!

I'm not sure what you mean by: "This test is showing high Psi left at max head..."
I looked at the review/test..... just unclear what/where your noticing there.
__________________
System: OpterOWN
CPU
Opteron 165 CCBBE 0610DPMW
Motherboard
Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe
Memory
2GB OCZ EL Platinum
Graphics Card
EVGA 7900GT
Hard Drive
36Gb Raptor Raid-0, 200Gb Maxtor
Sound Card
Audigy 2 ZS
Power Supply
OCZ Powerstream 520w
Case
Super Flower, with extension
CPU cooling
Custom water, see sig.
GPU cooling
Stock Air
OS
Xp Home
Monitor
19" Flat screen CRT
Mastacator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-07   #10 (permalink)
Habitual Tinkerer
 
ira-k's Avatar
 
intel nvidia

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 14,233

FAQs Submitted: 1
Trader Rating: 9
Default

Thats probably what it is, plus I left my tubing a little over long on my rad also....The first test there for max head....Am I reading it wrong or what? Isn't that showing the Psi it takes to get to max head? Thanks EDIT: Never mind I see now....Thats just his measurement of the Psi at max head....I was looking at it wrong...

System: My System
CPU
E8600 4545Mhz*9 w/1.29V
Motherboard
DFI DK P35
Memory
2x1024 D9GMH
Graphics Card
XFX 8800 GS
Hard Drive
2x Seagate 160 Perp. RD-1
Power Supply
Corsair HX 620
Case
Open Bench
CPU cooling
Stinger V-8P 320W TEC ,20RZ Iwaki,480 GTX
GPU cooling
Air
OS
Vista Premium

Last edited by ira-k : 01-23-07 at 04:00 PM.
ira-k is offline Overclocked Account ira-k's Gallery   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:36 AM.


Overclock.net is a Carbon Neutral Site Creative Commons License Internet Security By ControlScan

Terms of Service / Forum Rules | Privacy Policy | Advertising | Become an Official Vendor
Copyright © 2008 Shogun Interactive Development. Most rights reserved.
Page generated in 0.21652 seconds with 10 queries