Water-cooling or TRUE w/Panaflo - Page 3 - Overclock.net

xguntherc · 10-25-08

Well I was going to do the Water.. but the guy sold the GREAT deal as I didn't get the cash in time.

I'm getting the TRUE. I'll have it sometimes in the next 2-3 days.. or probably monday after shipping cuz the weekend. I'm going to try the TRUE and later one day I might get water. I know waters better. I wasn't asking whats better. I know water is.

Also Blameless thanks for the info I head those slipstream 88cfm's are GREAT case fans. but not very good for cpu coolers. I've heard that from more than a few people. So I never ordered them. I'm probably just going to give the Panaflo H1 38mm 103 CFM I got with the TRUE a try.. if it's like you said and loud cuz the air it blows. then I'll add my side panel back on and see how it goes.

thanks. or I could use the two 70 cfm Yate Loons I have for it. but they are only 120mm x 20mm

afzsom · 10-25-08

That Panaflo H1 is a beast of a fan. Use it and love it.

hiiyah777 · 10-25-08

He also got the TRUE as a straight trade for the Tuniq, so the investment was negligible (just the cost of shipping). By the way, I got to the drop off place kind of late yesterday, and they said the FedEx guy wouldn't be there until Monday to pick it up. Sorry about that, man.

I've thought about water myself. What it's boiled down to for me (no pun intended) is the fact that air cooling is such low maintenance, and is more "set it and forget it" (although don't just try that approach).

Plus, like someone else mentioned, water seems so expensive. I mean, yeah, you can get some good deals on some stuff. But for me, when I do water, I'm going to do it right the first time (unlike my first build, I'm just now finally getting it right).

I don't want to buy cheap crap and get better stuff later. I'll just go ahead and buy the $100+ blocks in the first place. If I can, I'll find them used for a good deal, but I don't want to skimp on the supplies.

The other side of water cooling that no one seemed to mention that has kept me away is the mess management. Right now, I'm working on absolutely perfect cable management. And since all I have is a few fan cords and a few power cords, it's a little easier. With water, I'd want to make sure all my tubes looked perfect as well as whatever extra cords and stuff the pumps and everything would need.

So I'll probably go with water someday, but for now, air is the way for me.

Hope that helps.

LeeH · 10-25-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiiyah777

He also got the TRUE as a straight trade for the Tuniq, so the investment was negligible (just the cost of shipping). By the way, I got to the drop off place kind of late yesterday, and they said the FedEx guy wouldn't be there until Monday to pick it up. Sorry about that, man.

I've thought about water myself. What it's boiled down to for me (no pun intended) is the fact that air cooling is such low maintenance, and is more "set it and forget it" (although don't just try that approach).

Plus, like someone else mentioned, water seems so expensive. I mean, yeah, you can get some good deals on some stuff. But for me, when I do water, I'm going to do it right the first time (unlike my first build, I'm just now finally getting it right).

I don't want to buy cheap crap and get better stuff later. I'll just go ahead and buy the $100+ blocks in the first place. If I can, I'll find them used for a good deal, but I don't want to skimp on the supplies.

The other side of water cooling that no one seemed to mention that has kept me away is the mess management. Right now, I'm working on absolutely perfect cable management. And since all I have is a few fan cords and a few power cords, it's a little easier. With water, I'd want to make sure all my tubes looked perfect as well as whatever extra cords and stuff the pumps and everything would need.

So I'll probably go with water someday, but for now, air is the way for me.

Hope that helps.

I wonder how many people regret going to water. I'm starting to wonder if I bit off more that I would like to chew. I believe you are right that if you're going to do it properly it is expensive and it looks like the maintenance is higher than I realized.

High quality HS's like the True and a few others make the difference less and less. I expect the biggest difference will be on load and it should allow greater overclocks. My loop will be up in a few days so I have my fingers crossed.

OC'ing Noob · 10-25-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeH

I wonder how many people regret going to water. I'm starting to wonder if I bit off more that I would like to chew. I believe you are right that if you're going to do it properly it is expensive and it looks like the maintenance is higher than I realized.

High quality HS's like the True and a few others make the difference less and less. I expect the biggest difference will be on load and it should allow greater overclocks. My loop will be up in a few days so I have my fingers crossed.

I think a lot of people a serious misunderstanding of the concept of water cooling. Water cooling is used normally for the three following reasons:

1. Allow your computer to be as silent as possible while maintaining an acceptable level of silence.
2. Achieve as low a delta T (change in temps from idle to load) as possible to maximize overclocking.
3. Achieve a good overclock at as low a system noise as possible.

Basically, my water cooling setup using a Black Ice GTX 360 with 6x Scythe S-Flex E fans runs at a noise level of about 30dBa including the noisy DDC3.2 pump, keeping my Q9450 at 3.2GHz under 52C load per core and HD4870X2 under 47C load with room ambient of 28C. Core idle is actually 39-40C idle and GPU idle is usually 37C. This means that I have a delta T of about 10C for the cores on my Q9450 and 11C for my beastly GPU. This is something that you can only achieve with a TRUE using a 90+ CFM fan and it does not even include the cooling of a GPU. A 90+ CFM fan is usually around 40+ dBa, which is considerably louder than my entire cooing system combined. This is a great example of option 3.

A great example of option 1 would be my HTPC. I have a Back Ice GTX 360 with Scythe S-Flex D fans cooling it and run everything at stock. At a foot away, you cannot hear anything at all.

Option 2 would be best represented by ira-k's old loop before he went over to the TEC dark side. He used a 480GTX with H1A Panaflos and 38mm shrouds if I recall correctly. He achieved an insanely low delta T which will completely annihilate a TRUE regardless of what fan it uses. The downside is that his setup louder than yours, which to me sounds like a jet engine.

I would disagree that water cooling involves a lot of maintenance. After you set it up, you usually do not need to mess with it again save once a year to replace the coolant. This is made super easy with one or two drain ports at choice locations in the loop.

Water cooling is not for everyone and it can definitely get pricey if you buy new parts. However, water cooling components are usually built like tanks and lasts forever, so you can buy used parts on forums and not worry about a thing as long as you leak tested it. The only thing I would buy new would be the pump.

NCspecV81 · 10-25-08

I'll let you be the judge:

Idle & Load temps for a qx9650 under water.

OC'ing Noob · 10-25-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCspecV81

I'll let you be the judge:

Idle & Load temps for a qx9650 under water.

Looks like your t-junction is a bit messed up... but damn, your room must be freezing!

NCspecV81 · 10-25-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob

Looks like your t-junction is a bit messed up... but damn, your room must be freezing!

I thought so too, but the TJMax is the same as intel publishes. I already checked that.

LeeH · 10-25-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob

Looks like your t-junction is a bit messed up... but damn, your room must be freezing!

TJmax on a 9650 is 95C, isn't it? So that part looks good, however 16C is 60F and since it would logically have to be above ambient, he must be in a meat locker

LeeH · 10-25-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob

I think a lot of people a serious misunderstanding of the concept of water cooling. Water cooling is used normally for the three following reasons:

1. Allow your computer to be as silent as possible while maintaining an acceptable level of silence.
2. Achieve as low a delta T (change in temps from idle to load) as possible to maximize overclocking.
3. Achieve a good overclock at as low a system noise as possible.

Basically, my water cooling setup using a Black Ice GTX 360 with 6x Scythe S-Flex E fans runs at a noise level of about 30dBa including the noisy DDC3.2 pump, keeping my Q9450 at 3.2GHz under 52C load per core and HD4870X2 under 47C load with room ambient of 28C. Core idle is actually 39-40C idle and GPU idle is usually 37C. This means that I have a delta T of about 10C for the cores on my Q9450 and 11C for my beastly GPU. This is something that you can only achieve with a TRUE using a 90+ CFM fan and it does not even include the cooling of a GPU. A 90+ CFM fan is usually around 40+ dBa, which is considerably louder than my entire cooing system combined. This is a great example of option 3.

A great example of option 1 would be my HTPC. I have a Back Ice GTX 360 with Scythe S-Flex D fans cooling it and run everything at stock. At a foot away, you cannot hear anything at all.

Option 2 would be best represented by ira-k's old loop before he went over to the TEC dark side. He used a 480GTX with H1A Panaflos and 38mm shrouds if I recall correctly. He achieved an insanely low delta T which will completely annihilate a TRUE regardless of what fan it uses. The downside is that his setup louder than yours, which to me sounds like a jet engine.

I would disagree that water cooling involves a lot of maintenance. After you set it up, you usually do not need to mess with it again save once a year to replace the coolant. This is made super easy with one or two drain ports at choice locations in the loop.

Water cooling is not for everyone and it can definitely get pricey if you buy new parts. However, water cooling components are usually built like tanks and lasts forever, so you can buy used parts on forums and not worry about a thing as long as you leak tested it. The only thing I would buy new would be the pump.

Thank you for helping to put some of that stuff in perspective. I really needed to hear some of that

		Overclock.net - Overclocking.net > Cooling > Water Cooling
Water-cooling or TRUE w/Panaflo

10-25-08	#26 (permalink)
NCspecV81 4.0ghz Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,949 Rep: 379 Unique Rep: 256 Trader Rating: 27	I'll let you be the judge: Idle & Load temps for a qx9650 under water.

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