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post #11 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 01:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Ricwin View Post
Looks like I'll need to give it a miss and stick to a regular Ryzen CPU
I'm planning to get whatever nVidia xx70 comes next, and the ballistic performance of the Samsung 960 is too good to give up on.
If by the above you somehow meant to say that you want a discrete GPU because an integrated Vega is not enough for your needs, all good.
But if you were alluding to some defect or disadvantage (i see you also mentioning hard drives) this platform-CPU combo may have due to its lane count/allocation?

First of all, you need to discount whatever conclusions you may have reached regarding a presumably lower NVMe performance; entirely. It's Intel's PCH that's problematic/behind, even in their "high-end" platforms. Different way of lane allocating, different circuitry and concept altogether. That myth of "connecting NVMes to the mobo's lanes is bad" only applies to Intel (and in fact it's worse on some Intel platforms even if you dedicate 'direct' CPU lanes to it). You have no downsides doing this on any AMD platform, cheap or expensive, with any Zen CPU. Plug it where they expect you to and forget about any of this.

As to the GPU side, last time i checked it was literally 3 games, 3, that managed to take advantage of the full bandwidth allocated by a 3.0x16 connection. Three games. All others performed identically in both x16 and x8. The three games that didn't had an advantage of like a couple FPS
Now obviously, psychology, placebo affect, compensating occasionally, they all have their parts to play, so obviously it's your call.

But apples are apples (i need a discrete GPU), and oranges are oranges (i am misinformed). Different things.

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Last edited by Aenra; 02-27-2018 at 01:36 PM.
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post #12 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 02:25 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aenra View Post
If by the above you somehow meant to say that you want a discrete GPU because an integrated Vega is not enough for your needs, all good.
But if you were alluding to some defect or disadvantage (i see you also mentioning hard drives) this platform-CPU combo may have due to its lane count/allocation?

First of all, you need to discount whatever conclusions you may have reached regarding a presumably lower NVMe performance; entirely. It's Intel's PCH that's problematic/behind, even in their "high-end" platforms. Different way of lane allocating, different circuitry and concept altogether. That myth of "connecting NVMes to the mobo's lanes is bad" only applies to Intel (and in fact it's worse on some Intel platforms even if you dedicate 'direct' CPU lanes to it). You have no downsides doing this on any AMD platform, cheap or expensive, with any Zen CPU. Plug it where they expect you to and forget about any of this.

As to the GPU side, last time i checked it was literally 3 games, 3, that managed to take advantage of the full bandwidth allocated by a 3.0x16 connection. Three games. All others performed identically in both x16 and x8. The three games that didn't had an advantage of like a couple FPS
Now obviously, psychology, placebo affect, compensating occasionally, they all have their parts to play, so obviously it's your call.

But apples are apples (i need a discrete GPU), and oranges are oranges (i am misinformed). Different things.



Thats exactly why I asked. I was not 100% sure how the 2400G would handle PCIE devices.

I was under the impression that the CPU only has 16 lanes available, 8 used by Vega leaving only 8 available for other hardware. I know full well that the graphical performance difference between x8 and x16 is marginal at most, however my understanding was that of the remaining 8 lanes; 4 would be used by NVME leaving only 4 to be used by a discrete GPU, hence why I asked about the 8 used by Vega.
I didnt realise that the recent AMD chipsets have dedicated lanes for NVME regardless of the CPU lanes so its a pretty irrelevant question now.

I've no conclusions, illusions or queries about NVME performance. I would expect them to either work or not.

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post #13 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 09:07 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Ricwin View Post
Thats exactly why I asked .. so its a pretty irrelevant question now .. I would expect them to either work or not

No worries
I only highlighted the specific scenario above as it appears to be prominent among various misconceptions (and frankly, pretty much the only explanation on why anyone would think it could affect HDD performance). Does need to be noted however, again, that this only applies on Zen, Zen+ platforms; not on Intel ones. There are performance variations/downsides there.

As to the latter, not so fast ^^

I was mentioning read, write and IOPS as well as not worrying on where they're physically plugged in (again, this only on AMD platforms). This need not necessarily imply they just 'work'. AMD specifies a Win10 1709 build as the bare minimum and considering past issues with both AMD and Intel, it's likely older OSes or builds may have issues (which are surmountable btw, but entail some effort and knowledge). It is also possible -although unlikely- that certain.. odd storage solution models such as the first "fast" (lol) Intel NVMes may have issues; again, unlikely, but check the storage QVL of your mobo before deciding a-priori that it can accomodate you. Have had issues with such trash hard drives myself and zero issues with anything Samsung made. A simple search here will show you others that faced the exact opposite situation. That's the mobo manufacturer not doing his thing, not AMD.

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post #14 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 09:10 AM
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I finally got my 2x8g TridentZ 3466MHz ram to work under load with the ASUS X370-f Strix just by setting low to medium VRM Power Controls in AISuite 3 - it didn't need messing about with DRAM voltages and timings, although the DOCP Standard setting bumps the VDDCR SOC Voltage in BIOS from 1V to 1.15V without being asked.

I set the VRM Power Controls in AiSuite3 - so just for this session - as follows:
VDDCR Cpu Power Phase Control [Optimized]
VDDCR Cpu Switching Frequency [On]
VDDCR Soc Power Phase Control [Optimized]
VDDCR Soc Switching Frequency [Auto]
VDDCR Cpu Load Line calibration [Level 4]
VDDCR Cpu Current Capability [120%]
VDDCR Soc Load Line calibration [Level 4]
VDDCR Soc Current Capability [120%]
VDDCR Cpu Power Duty Control [TProbe]
Setting the VRM Power controls also made a 4GHz OC very easy: it was just a matter of applying 250MHz jumps in AiSuite 3 and waiting for the monitor to display the new frequency. No extra CPU voltage was necessary. This gave a 3398 result in Firestrike - bearing in mind I have made no effort to edit the way W10 services etc. interfere with the benchmarking.

Finally, I bumped the OC to 4025MHz to get a CPU-Z validation for the 4GHz Club.

There is definitely headroom left under the bonnet for higher CPU and RAM frequencies - and I've yet to try overclocking the GPU.
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post #15 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Is anyone getting VIDEO_TDR_FAILURE on their systems?

I tried a fresh install of Windows 10 along with the AMD chipset drivers and video drivers, yet I keep on randomly getting this BSOD no matter what I do.

The faulting module points to atikmpag.sys. It's a pity I cannot roll back to any other driver as the only ones supported seem to be 17.40.3701 from their site

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post #16 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 09:21 AM
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First of all, are you on a Win10 1709 build?
If yes, start with the basics;

For starters and before you install any software:
1) Check how Windows is set to handle "new hardware", do driver updates and/or whether your device manager lists everything properly. Windows is getting worse and worse in this; if you have disallowed it to make its own choices, move on to:
2) Checking which power plan you are defaulted on. This shouldn't be relevant to what you're having, but it never hurts having a look. You need either the 'Ryzen' balanced, or the proper performance plan. Not the power saver.

Have already seen two Youtubers struggling with this, so just in case:
1) We install chipset; only; on manual, not express; only chipset, not graphics.
2) We install latest drivers for the integrated GPU, manually; always last, after the chipset, always separately, downloaded manually.

If you've done this:
1) Check how much memory your BIOS allocates to the GPU and whether it specifies its type (ie "UMA"). It should be left at 'Auto' or whatever Asus calls it, no matter what. Do not change the size or type.

Pride, honour and purity.

Last edited by Aenra; 02-28-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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post #17 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 09:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wabbit16 View Post
Is anyone getting VIDEO_TDR_FAILURE on their systems?

I tried a fresh install of Windows 10 along with the AMD chipset drivers and video drivers, yet I keep on randomly getting this BSOD no matter what I do.

The faulting module points to atikmpag.sys. It's a pity I cannot roll back to any other driver as the only ones supported seem to be 17.40.3701 from their site
Gamers Nexus has a video on YuTube talking about this. W10 needs to be uodated to 1609 and the new graphics drivers should be installed AFTER the chipset. The Radeon driver I installed was Local 17.7.
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post #18 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aenra View Post
First of all, are you on a Win10 1709 build?
Yup, version 1709 Build 16299.248, installed today.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aenra View Post
If yes, start with the basics;

For starters and before you install any software:
1) Check how Windows is set to handle "new hardware", do driver updates and/or whether your device manager lists everything properly. Windows is getting worse and worse in this; if you have disallowed it to make its own choices, move on to:
2) Checking which power plan you are defaulted on. This shouldn't be relevant to what you're having, but it never hurts having a look. You need either the 'Ryzen' balanced, or the proper performance plan. Not the power saver.

Have already seen two Youtubers struggling with this, so just in case:
1) We install chipset; only; on manual, not express; only chipset, not graphics.
2) We install latest drivers for the integrated GPU, manually; always last, after the chipset, always separately, downloaded manually.

If you've done this:
1) Check how much memory your BIOS allocates to the GPU and whether it specifies its type (ie "UMA"). It should be left at 'Auto' or whatever Asus calls it, no matter what. Do not change the size or type.
I have disabled automatic hardware driver updates and disconnected from the internet (have the latest AMD drivers downloaded locally), and I am on the balanced power plan.

My install procedure is as follows:

Clear CMOS -> Disconnect from Internet -> Clean install of Windows -> Install Chipset drivers from Asus' website -> Reboot -> Install AMD Radeon drivers from AMD website -> Reboot -> Connect to internet, open a few YouTube video tabs and I am just about guaranteed to get a BSOD. I have also tried the reg fix where you set the TDR delay a bit longer, but this doesn't seem to solve anything.

I have brought my RAM speed down to 2400MHz as well, and my memory allocation in the BIOS is set to Auto but I have also tested it with 2GB. No worky.

Quote: Originally Posted by Himo5 View Post
Gamers Nexus has a video on YuTube talking about this. W10 needs to be uodated to 1609 and the new graphics drivers should be installed AFTER the chipset. The Radeon driver I installed was Local 17.7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_te-ksbGXE
Thanks, watching now!

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post #19 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 11:55 AM
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Updating to 1709 (no matter the original build, could be 1609, could be 1703) has caused problems for people. Installing from a 1709 image, ie 1709 out of the box, has not.
If the advice involves "updating Windows", no offense but i'd discard it and look elsewhere for the cause.

- Also, is your BIOS updated? The answer is yes, but..
- Is the version you're currently running the optimal? Both Asus and Gigabyte have had issues and had to pop a number of drivers out there. Not all will work for everyone; yet. So keep that in mind.
- Last but not least.. am not good with tact and faux-politeness, so i'd decided to leave it out, lol, but let me try.. common sense dictates we do NOT overclock the RAM, or the CPU, or anything like that. We do a default values setup, proceed to have a default values OS setup, proceed to a short but moderately heavy stress test to ensure our hardware works fine; when within said default values. Only after passing such a test do we proceed to click-click heaven, as prior to it we'd never be able to tell whose fault it'd be when something went wrong.

Did you even test your rig before OCing your RAM? If you do and it fails, or had you, you'd know it's just your mobo drivers. If you do and it passes, it's you

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post #20 of 178 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aenra View Post
Updating to 1709 (no matter the original build, could be 1609, could be 1703) has caused problems for people. Installing from a 1709 image, ie 1709 out of the box, has not.
If the advice involves "updating Windows", no offense but i'd discard it and look elsewhere for the cause.
My build is 1709 from the ISO, without connecting to the internet for updates so it should be as fresh as can come.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aenra View Post
- Also, is your BIOS updated? The answer is yes, but..
- Is the version you're currently running the optimal? Both Asus and Gigabyte have had issues and had to pop a number of drivers out there. Not all will work for everyone; yet. So keep that in mind.
I am running the only BIOS compatible with Raven Ridge right now - 3803. If I roll back, I will lose the ability to boot with the APU installed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aenra View Post
- Last but not least.. am not good with tact and faux-politeness, so i'd decided to leave it out, lol, but let me try.. common sense dictates we do NOT overclock the RAM, or the CPU, or anything like that. We do a default values setup, proceed to have a default values OS setup, proceed to a short but moderately heavy stress test to ensure our hardware works fine; when within said default values. Only after passing such a test do we proceed to click-click heaven, as prior to it we'd never be able to tell whose fault it'd be when something went wrong.

Did you even test your rig before OCing your RAM? If you do and it fails, or had you, you'd know it's just your mobo drivers. If you do and it passes, it's you
Any and all modifications from the stock BIOS were undone when I cleared the CMOS before I started the reinstall, which I also verified by entering the BIOS after the reset was done. I have seen how messing with settings can affect a 'new' install so I too would rather err to the side of caution and start with a clean slate, as it were. The BIOS selects 2666MHz by default (DOCP) but I rolled that back down to 2133MHz for testing and, crucially, I removed the Asus-provided chipset drivers and installed the latest AMD drivers from their webpage before installing the AMD-provided Radeon drivers.

I have been running now at 3200MHz without a hitch for the past three or four hours. I think either the AMD chipset drivers from AMD themselves made the difference, or the fact that I chose to disregard Asus' AUTO settings for my memory speeds and voltages and manually applied a 3200MHz/1.35V setting to the modules. I worked my way up from 2133MHz all the way up to 3000MHz with 30 minutes of Heaven Benchmark in between and then took a leap of faith and jumped straight to 3200MHz with a 1.35V setting (I got up to 3000MHz with 1.2V), and by some miracle it seems to be holding steady.

The only reason I jumped to 1.35V was because that is what the XMP table rates it as at 3200MHz. I could probably try POST with 1.2V, but I will run it like it is now for a few days to be sure that I have it 100% stable.

Thanks for all the suggestions thus far!

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