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post #141 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 01:25 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AvengedRobix View Post
I'm on Crosshair VII.. i've try to raise edc limit but nothing... max under full load on CB20 was 4.25 with water at 12C... In manual (only bios) 4400 all core 1.33 (drop 1,319 LLC4) water 25C temp max 74C... When they incorporate the CCX oc in bios i can run 4,5 on 6 core and 4,4 on other six at 1,33V.. Now ccX oc can be do only with a tool o windows

Thanks for the information, believe it or not it is very useful to me in trying to decide which processor to go with. It is interesting that most people had better results with the 2000 series by using PBO and this time around the better results are achieved through old school bios overclocking.



Saying as you own the 3900X would you say it is worth waiting for it to be restocked or should I just pull the trigger on a 3800X? Gaming should be no real difference between the two processors, but real world how are content creation applications? Abode, rendering, video conversion, ect...? Do you think the 3900X is overkill for a semi-professional compared to the 3800X? If you had to do it all over again do you think the 3900X is a little overkill and the extra horse power isn't being utilized?



If the 3900X would have been released to keep up with demand I would already have one. I already have someone interested in my 2700X and am awaiting a new 3000 series processor to build that rig for him and to upgrade my existing system. Its getting very frustrating for me who would like to get my system updated and for my friend awaiting my current processor...

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post #142 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 01:54 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by cowboy44mag View Post
Thanks for the information, believe it or not it is very useful to me in trying to decide which processor to go with. It is interesting that most people had better results with the 2000 series by using PBO and this time around the better results are achieved through old school bios overclocking.



Saying as you own the 3900X would you say it is worth waiting for it to be restocked or should I just pull the trigger on a 3800X? Gaming should be no real difference between the two processors, but real world how are content creation applications? Abode, rendering, video conversion, ect...? Do you think the 3900X is overkill for a semi-professional compared to the 3800X? If you had to do it all over again do you think the 3900X is a little overkill and the extra horse power isn't being utilized?



If the 3900X would have been released to keep up with demand I would already have one. I already have someone interested in my 2700X and am awaiting a new 3000 series processor to build that rig for him and to upgrade my existing system. Its getting very frustrating for me who would like to get my system updated and for my friend awaiting my current processor...
My experience has been the same as most other people here. I can't get anywhere with my 3900x at Stock, PBO, or Auto OC, when running a heavy multi threaded load. So I also both Manual OC, and Per CCX OC.

Also for reference, I was bad ass at manipulating PBO with my 2700x. I got that baby on Launch day, and by about 2 weeks after launch I had PBO running my chip at 4250 All Core for Heavy loads, boosting to 4350 for Quad Core Loads, and hitting 4400 for Dual, and 4450 For Single. I could get higher than that with Base Clock overclocking, but unfortunately my RAID, Sound, 10Gbe, and NVMe drives HATED Base Clock overclocking so I had to settle with a 100.2 BCLK, which was still a modest Bump. I also had (and still have) 2 Kits of Flare X 3200Mhz CL14 Memory, so 4x8GB Dimms total, and I was able to runn it at 3266Mhz CL14 No Problem.

I have tried for 3 days straight to get something close to the same Boost Behavior with the 3900x. Right now, Boost just seems to be BROKEN completely for All Core Loads on the 3900x. The Second the Tdie hits 65 to70c, with anywhere close to a 75% Load across all cores, your Clocks drop to 4100, 4150Mhz at BEST. I have tried every UEFI, I have tried using the in UEFI PBO Settings in Both Menus, I have tried using them in conjunction with Ryzen Master, I have even tried using my old favorite tool for the 2700x, Zen States. NOTHING works to hold Boost at 4200Mhz or higher, and often, especially when your all core load hits close to 80c, Your All Core is dropping down to 4000Mhz, so it really hurts with my all core Loads.

For this reason I have switched to both All Core and Per CCX overclocking and this has worked great!

Now in regards to your question. If all you are after is pure gaming performance, then the 1 CCD chips will do you great. In fact they seem to be able to hit higher All Core Boosts then we can (I mean as far as PB & PBO actually working for some of them). But if you want to leverage those extra cores, want some extra head room, and if you anticipate games starting to take advantage of the extra Cores, Threads, and Cache that the 2 CCD sku's offer, than I would highly recommend the 3900x. Despite its boost shortcoming, the thing is fun as hell to play with and has INCREDIBLE Power. If you can hold out long enough I would even say just wait for the 3950x. If you do, I will sell you my chip at a discount when I buy it! LOL!

But thats a decision only you can make. Regarding availability, I have now been able to get 4 of these chips for clients in a timely fashion and am pretty sure you could get one too. It involves having a lot of patience, putting aside about a 2 to 3 hour time period where you are constantly refreshing your browser, but its DEFINITELY possible to get one, I have the process down now, I actually bought one just yesterday, and it arrived today already, it just seems that more people are aware of this which is why they sell out so damn fast. If you really want one, I am sure I could help you get one.

-MattTheTech

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post #143 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 03:16 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by cowboy44mag View Post
Thanks for the information, believe it or not it is very useful to me in trying to decide which processor to go with. It is interesting that most people had better results with the 2000 series by using PBO and this time around the better results are achieved through old school bios overclocking.



Saying as you own the 3900X would you say it is worth waiting for it to be restocked or should I just pull the trigger on a 3800X? Gaming should be no real difference between the two processors, but real world how are content creation applications? Abode, rendering, video conversion, ect...? Do you think the 3900X is overkill for a semi-professional compared to the 3800X? If you had to do it all over again do you think the 3900X is a little overkill and the extra horse power isn't being utilized?



If the 3900X would have been released to keep up with demand I would already have one. I already have someone interested in my 2700X and am awaiting a new 3000 series processor to build that rig for him and to upgrade my existing system. Its getting very frustrating for me who would like to get my system updated and for my friend awaiting my current processor...
If you can.. BUY 3900X =)

My Best:
Fire Strike: https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19149242 - 33201
Fire Strike Extreme : https://www.3dmark.com/fs/17170615 - 19951
Fire Strike Ultra : https://www.3dmark.com/fs/17170668 - 10455
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post #144 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 05:48 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
My experience has been the same as most other people here. I can't get anywhere with my 3900x at Stock, PBO, or Auto OC, when running a heavy multi threaded load. So I also both Manual OC, and Per CCX OC.

Also for reference, I was bad ass at manipulating PBO with my 2700x. I got that baby on Launch day, and by about 2 weeks after launch I had PBO running my chip at 4250 All Core for Heavy loads, boosting to 4350 for Quad Core Loads, and hitting 4400 for Dual, and 4450 For Single. I could get higher than that with Base Clock overclocking, but unfortunately my RAID, Sound, 10Gbe, and NVMe drives HATED Base Clock overclocking so I had to settle with a 100.2 BCLK, which was still a modest Bump. I also had (and still have) 2 Kits of Flare X 3200Mhz CL14 Memory, so 4x8GB Dimms total, and I was able to runn it at 3266Mhz CL14 No Problem.

I have tried for 3 days straight to get something close to the same Boost Behavior with the 3900x. Right now, Boost just seems to be BROKEN completely for All Core Loads on the 3900x. The Second the Tdie hits 65 to70c, with anywhere close to a 75% Load across all cores, your Clocks drop to 4100, 4150Mhz at BEST. I have tried every UEFI, I have tried using the in UEFI PBO Settings in Both Menus, I have tried using them in conjunction with Ryzen Master, I have even tried using my old favorite tool for the 2700x, Zen States. NOTHING works to hold Boost at 4200Mhz or higher, and often, especially when your all core load hits close to 80c, Your All Core is dropping down to 4000Mhz, so it really hurts with my all core Loads.

For this reason I have switched to both All Core and Per CCX overclocking and this has worked great!

Now in regards to your question. If all you are after is pure gaming performance, then the 1 CCD chips will do you great. In fact they seem to be able to hit higher All Core Boosts then we can (I mean as far as PB & PBO actually working for some of them). But if you want to leverage those extra cores, want some extra head room, and if you anticipate games starting to take advantage of the extra Cores, Threads, and Cache that the 2 CCD sku's offer, than I would highly recommend the 3900x. Despite its boost shortcoming, the thing is fun as hell to play with and has INCREDIBLE Power. If you can hold out long enough I would even say just wait for the 3950x. If you do, I will sell you my chip at a discount when I buy it! LOL!

But thats a decision only you can make. Regarding availability, I have now been able to get 4 of these chips for clients in a timely fashion and am pretty sure you could get one too. It involves having a lot of patience, putting aside about a 2 to 3 hour time period where you are constantly refreshing your browser, but its DEFINITELY possible to get one, I have the process down now, I actually bought one just yesterday, and it arrived today already, it just seems that more people are aware of this which is why they sell out so damn fast. If you really want one, I am sure I could help you get one.
Quote: Originally Posted by AvengedRobix View Post
If you can.. BUY 3900X =)



Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll try to for a little longer to get the 3900X. I've been torn between the 3800X (better binned 3700X) and the 3900X. The main reason is there are weeks that I basically only use my rig for gaming and then there are weeks that I have to do my content creation and I have no spare time for gaming. My 2700X doesn't do a bad job with editing/ rendering/ and converting as I can run it @ 4.35Ghz the entire time. I know that the extra cores and threads would make the 3900X much better for the times that I'm doing heavy content creation. The extra IPC and boost clocks would make the 3800X a nice upgrade over my 2700X for gaming when I have the spare time to enjoy it, but I'm not so sure it will be an upgrade over my 2700X for content creation as I can run the 2700X @ 4.35Ghz and the 3800X I may not be able to get much past 4.2Ghz unless I use a manual overclock for when I want to do editing, but it looks like I'll have to do that with the 3900X as well. I have a feeling that one of the big selling features of the next gen Ryzen 4000 processors will be a fix to the almost broken PBO of Ryzen 3000.


After your feedback I'll wait and get the 3900X when I can connect with it. Thanks a lot for you input guys

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post #145 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 12:02 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Nah, it sounds high, but they could run like that for years and still be fine, Ram can take a lot more than people think, but I hear you, it certainly does sound high!

OK, I am going to copy and paste the text files in here, copy and paste these over to your phone or something and plug in all these values manually, or at least the timings, voltages, ram speed, and IF, and whatever else you want. I don't want to send you the actual profile to load because I don't want it to load something you weren't aware of and have it cause a problem, its definitely better if you key the values in yourself, I know that sucks, but at least you will know what is set. The First I am pasting are the "Safe" settings. If you are running Flare X Kits this should definitely work for you. Keep in mind I am running 2 kits, so my SOCv has to be slightly higher, if you are only running one kit then you can lower your SOCv to around 1.1v.

4225Mhz All Core / 3600Mhz Ram / 1800Mhz IF (Safe Profile):
Spoiler!


4225Mhz All Core OC / 3600Mhz RAM / 1800Mhz IF - (Tighter Timings Profile):
Spoiler!
Mate you are a saint, the fast settings work! I thought they weren't at first as I kept getting backup BIOS kicking in. Turns out I was loading my old 3800 attempt BIOS hahaha! I did manage to boot with your settings but I got 5 errors in the MEMbench built into the ryzen calculator.

Going to have a play with some timings over the coming weekend. Probably just need to loosen a couple of sub-timings, the voltage somehow is always .01v over whatever i set manually in the BIOS for the DRAM.
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post #146 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 03:58 PM
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A few more questions for the great people on this forum.


1. To Ryzen 3900X owners, how difficult is this beast to keep cool at stock and overclocked? I currently have a NH-U14S with 2 140mm fans in push pull and was wondering if you guys think it would be able to handle the 3900X at stock and while overclocked?


2. To Ryzen 3800X and 3700X owners, is there any benefit to getting the 3800X over the 3700X? I know that the 3800X should be "better binned" but in the real world is it able to hit higher overclocks than the Ryzen 3700X?

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post #147 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by cowboy44mag View Post
A few more questions for the great people on this forum.


1. To Ryzen 3900X owners, how difficult is this beast to keep cool at stock and overclocked? I currently have a NH-U14S with 2 140mm fans in push pull and was wondering if you guys think it would be able to handle the 3900X at stock and while overclocked?


2. To Ryzen 3800X and 3700X owners, is there any benefit to getting the 3800X over the 3700X? I know that the 3800X should be "better binned" but in the real world is it able to hit higher overclocks than the Ryzen 3700X?
I don't own a 3800x, but I have installed 3 Of them now, actually literally installing Windows on the 3rd as we speak. I have only installed 2 3700x, but so far the 3800x seem to be better binned. Also from watching people one these forums it appears to be the case as well. For instance the Ryzen PC I built last week with the 3800x could do 4.4Ghz all Core at 1.3v, the 3700x I installed last week could only do 4.2 Ghz all core and it needed 1.37v for that. On average though you will get about 100Mhz higher, OR about 50 to 75mv lower for the same clock. Not guaranteed obviously, but that so far appears to be the average. Hopefully more 3800 and 3700 Owners can put there input though.

Keeping the 3900x cool is a pain in the ass. I have a 360mm Phoenix EKWB Kit, its basically an expandable AIO using Off the Shelf EK Parts and this think was a disappoint on the 3900x. Other people with better coolers are having better luck then I. Under normal Runs, like Blender AVX Renders for instance, no problem can keep that to about 87c or below in a 30c ambient room, but things like Prime 95 Small FFT's forget about it, instance 108c, hits the 110c thermal reboot limit in less than 5 Seconds. So it really depends on the load. I doubt your Noctua has what ever block issue I am having, but I am sure you will probably see around the same temps. For normal use cases again, not so hard to keep below 90c, my idle temp is 35c, and my normal all core load for things like Cinebench and Blender are between 75c and 85c depending on how much Current the load draws, so not a big deal, just be careful before you start running things like Prime 95!

-MattTheTech

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post #148 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 07:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
I don't own a 3800x, but I have installed 3 Of them now, actually literally installing Windows on the 3rd as we speak. I have only installed 2 3700x, but so far the 3800x seem to be better binned. Also from watching people one these forums it appears to be the case as well. For instance the Ryzen PC I built last week with the 3800x could do 4.4Ghz all Core at 1.3v, the 3700x I installed last week could only do 4.2 Ghz all core and it needed 1.37v for that. On average though you will get about 100Mhz higher, OR about 50 to 75mv lower for the same clock. Not guaranteed obviously, but that so far appears to be the average. Hopefully more 3800 and 3700 Owners can put there input though.

Keeping the 3900x cool is a pain in the ass. I have a 360mm Phoenix EKWB Kit, its basically an expandable AIO using Off the Shelf EK Parts and this think was a disappoint on the 3900x. Other people with better coolers are having better luck then I. Under normal Runs, like Blender AVX Renders for instance, no problem can keep that to about 87c or below in a 30c ambient room, but things like Prime 95 Small FFT's forget about it, instance 108c, hits the 110c thermal reboot limit in less than 5 Seconds. So it really depends on the load. I doubt your Noctua has what ever block issue I am having, but I am sure you will probably see around the same temps. For normal use cases again, not so hard to keep below 90c, my idle temp is 35c, and my normal all core load for things like Cinebench and Blender are between 75c and 85c depending on how much Current the load draws, so not a big deal, just be careful before you start running things like Prime 95!

Very good information, I really appreciate your feedback. I use to build custom rigs for people back in the day, but in my area there really isn't a lot of demand anymore. Lots of farm land, horses, truck and tractor pulls, bonfires... Most people who I use to build rigs for went to the ease and simplicity of consoles or have turned to playing games on their smart phones... I actually need a good rig for my "side business" I make horse training videos and red neck mod videos for trucks and tractors. I am looking to get into on-line (YouTube stuff) but right now I make, edit, and convert the videos (depending on the format the customer wants) to USB drives.



When I'm rendering and editing I see my 2700X @ 4.35Ghz hit around 70C sometimes spiking to 75C. I've always liked to have my personal systems on air only cooling as I had a AIO fail (the pump) and burn up a processor and damage the motherboard on an old FX build. I also have to watch what I'm spending on this upgrade or I'll be sleeping on the couch. The cost of going to a quality AIO or custom loop with the cost of the processor would put it a little over budget. I'm just thinking if I'm hitting 75C on an eight core 16 thread processor, two more cores and four more threads is going to get toasty while rendering.



What is the Tj max of the 3900X? I know you said you were hitting 110C, but I know the 2700X was 80C. I may have to end up going with the 3800X if I won't be able to keep the 3900X cool enough. Its good to know that there is an actual reason to get the 3800X over the 3700X, thank you for that information as well.

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post #149 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 09:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Nah, it sounds high, but they could run like that for years and still be fine, Ram can take a lot more than people think, but I hear you, it certainly does sound high!

OK, I am going to copy and paste the text files in here, copy and paste these over to your phone or something and plug in all these values manually, or at least the timings, voltages, ram speed, and IF, and whatever else you want. I don't want to send you the actual profile to load because I don't want it to load something you weren't aware of and have it cause a problem, its definitely better if you key the values in yourself, I know that sucks, but at least you will know what is set. The First I am pasting are the "Safe" settings. If you are running Flare X Kits this should definitely work for you. Keep in mind I am running 2 kits, so my SOCv has to be slightly higher, if you are only running one kit then you can lower your SOCv to around 1.1v.

4225Mhz All Core / 3600Mhz Ram / 1800Mhz IF (Safe Profile):
Spoiler!


4225Mhz All Core OC / 3600Mhz RAM / 1800Mhz IF - (Tighter Timings Profile):
Spoiler!

To get these sticks stable without any errors I increased procODT to 40 ohms and the Trfc to 308 as it's a multiple of Trc. Seems stable now and the speeds are much better, went from 71.6 latency to 66 in AIDA64 now.

Tyvm mate, has helped a lot with a lot of my workflows.
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post #150 of 194 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 04:51 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Tweedilderp View Post
To get these sticks stable without any errors I increased procODT to 40 ohms and the Trfc to 308 as it's a multiple of Trc. Seems stable now and the speeds are much better, went from 71.6 latency to 66 in AIDA64 now.

Tyvm mate, has helped a lot with a lot of my workflows.
Glad to help brother! And good job Stabilizing them. I am on 3800Mhz and just had to do the same damn thing to stabilize my OC, I found putting the ProcODT up to as high as 53.3 Ohms can really help stabilize an Memory OC, and help with reducing the amount of Voltage you need to use.

Glad it worked out for you!

EDIT: Also, not sure why my Profile had 288, I apparently can't do math. Try decreasing the tRFC down to 252, and see if you can stabilize there as well, that should bring down your latency by another half a ms or more, and increase bandwidth a bit. If you can run Karhu MemTest after and get to 1000% (which happens WORLDS FASTER than on HCI Mem Test) then you are all good!

-MattTheTech

Offical Ryzen 9 3900x Owner!
DodekaZen3000
(28 items)
CPU
Ryzen 9 3900x
Motherboard
ASUS Crosshair VII Hero
GPU
EVGA 1080ti FTW3 Hybrid
RAM
G.SKILL Flare X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 3200Mhz (PC4 25600) - F4-3200C14D-16GFX (x2 Kits)
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Pro 512GB
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo 1TB
Hard Drive
Samsung 850/860 Evo (x3 Raid 0 Game Drive)
Hard Drive
WD Black 4TB (x2 Raid 0 Storage Drive)
Hard Drive
860 Evo
Optical Drive
LG Blu-Ray Burner (Model BH16NS40)
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5.25" to One 3.5" and One 2.25" Bay (Model Syba SY-MRA55006)
Power Supply
Corsair RM1000i
Cooling
EKWB Phoenix 360mm Modular Cooler
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Old Jonesbo Case
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Windows 10 Enterprise
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Samsung NU8000 55Inch TV (Its a 4k TV But I run in it 1440p 120hz)
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LG 1080p 34 Inch Diplay
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Corsair k70 RGB Lux Mk2
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Logitech G700s
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Razer Vespula V2
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Custom Built 7.1 Surround System
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HT-Omega eClaro 7.1 Sound Card
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Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Other
Aquantia 10Gb NIC
Other
LSI 9211-8i
Other
Oculus Rift HMD
Other
10 ML120 + 2 ML140 Corsair Maglev Fans
Other
Phanteks Halo aRGB LUX x5
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Last edited by oreonutz; 08-15-2019 at 04:56 AM.
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