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Is Ryzen 3000 worth the hype?

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post #21 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 09:31 AM
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To summarize it if you are only gaming the hype is "OK" but if you do literally anything next to gaming then hell yea.

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post #22 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 10:15 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
It's worth the hype, just not for gaming. Especially when you consider nearly 20% IPC gain without a clock regression and basically +100% per core AVX2 performance.

Only gamers care about overclocking 4 CCX parts. For most people the precision boost algorithm is better , I found the same with the R7 2700X. You will most likely drop your top end clock on low thread workloads if you try to manually overclock (except on Ryzen 7 2700 / Ryzen 5 2600 if you manage to get 4.1-4.2GHz). It's worth overclocking R5 3600 if you can get 4.2+ GHz all core.

Ryzen 5 3600 : 4.2GHz rated boost ---> exceeds R7 1700 series performance ... essentially a gaming chip when overclocked
Ryzen 5 3600X : 4.4GHz rated boost ---> exceeds R7 2700X boost
Ryzen 7 3700X : 4.4GHz rated boost
Ryzen 7 3800X : 4.5GHz rated boost
Ryzen 9 3900X : 4.6GHz rated boost --> your Intel alternative is at least $1K and if your workload is well threaded this is simply a better option due to power and motherboard savings


What needs work:
1. PBO on Zen 2 was mostly defective at launch, it uses more power without providing more boost. 4.6GHz seems to be a ceiling that is barely reached on R9 3900X with PBO / manual per CCX overclocking.
I haven't seen anything more that 4.44GHz on my 3900X

All-core is 4.1GHz-ish.
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post #23 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 10:30 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RossiOCUK View Post
I haven't seen anything more that 4.44GHz on my 3900X

All-core is 4.1GHz-ish.
Yeah, My All Core when under Auto peaks at 4.1Ghz, and under AVX Loads Peaks at 4Ghz. And it does this at 1.4v, so the chip gets up to 94c (Room Temp of 28c), even under a 360 Rad.

But with Manual OCing, I can OC her to 4.25Ghz @ 1.25v, see a top Temp of around 85c (28c Room Temp) when under the same AVX Load. And then I can Per CCX OC, push the Voltage up slightly to 1.275v, Get 4.4Ghz on CCX 0, 4.35Ghz on CCX 1, 4.25Ghz on CCX 2, and 4.35Ghz on CCX 3, and then have my Temps only go up by about 2 to 3c under the same AVX Load, but have my performance improve a decent amount under both All core, and Lightly Threaded Loads. So In my case, where I do a lot of Heavy Core Workloads, the Manual or Per CCX OC is worth it, while still performing pretty damn good in lightly threaded tasks. I am not too impressed with how this algorithm handles Heavy All Core Loads this time around, but this could just be an issue with my specific chip and/or My Specific board (The Crosshair VII Hero on UEFI 2501 {Same Behavior on UEFI 2406}).

Also my highest Boost Clock I saw was before updating to the newest Chipset drivers, on UEFI 0068, with the entire chip including memory at complete stock, I was seeing frequent boosts to 4.5Ghz but only during desktop loads moving the mouse around.

Now since UEFI 2406 the highest I saw was 4.4Ghz when at complete auto, and then when updating to the newest chipset drivers that fixed Destiny 2, every time I have tested Auto the highest Boost I have seen is 4.35. I just re-flashed UEFI 2501 and loaded optimized defaults and loaded into windows, and I am still seeing 4.35Ghz as my highest Boost Frequency during lightly threaded tasks, and it only goes lower from there under heavier loads. This is just my experience with my One Chip at home, I only have one more at work that I haven't played with near as much since my retail chip arrived a few days after launch. I have a 3800x coming in tomorrow to play with, so will have a slightly bigger sample size to get a feeling of where the average sits between chips.

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post #24 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 10:36 AM
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For Ryzen I would love to see a clock/voltage curve adjustment similar to what we get with an Nvidia GPU through Afterburner or other tools. I think that would allow us to dial in the best possible results for our personal CPU. By default this CPU will request anywhere up to 1.5v to attempt to achieve 4.4GHz on just 1-2 cores (even while others sleep) and on the latest BIOS falls short of that by 50MHz. That same speed can be achieved with 1.33v but on all cores!

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post #25 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by upgraditus View Post
For Ryzen I would love to see a clock/voltage curve adjustment similar to what we get with an Nvidia GPU through Afterburner or other tools. I think that would allow us to dial in the best possible results for our personal CPU. By default this CPU will request anywhere up to 1.5v to attempt to achieve 4.4GHz on just 1-2 cores (even while others sleep) and on the latest BIOS falls short of that by 50MHz. That same speed can be achieved with 1.33v but on all cores!
I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS TOOL, and have been BEGGING FOR IT since Zen + Introduced Precision Boost and PBO. My Understanding is AMD Considers their boost algorithm proprietary, so its unlikely we will ever see this tool, at least according to my contacts when I spoke to them about this, but they could be mistaken, and I badly hope someone, if not at AMD then at ASUS, finds a way to make this a reality for us.

Enthusiasts have made some pretty awesome Overclocking tools for the community, we had things like Zen States that allowed us to not only play with P State tables, but allowed us to change Performance Enhancer settings (Which effected PBO Settings) in Windows easily, this was all for the 2000 Series. Lets hope someone Makes exactly what you described and allows us to manipulate a volt/frequency curve for Ryzen 3000 on a per core load basis. That would be AMAZING!

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post #26 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
My Understanding is AMD Considers their boost algorithm proprietary, so its unlikely we will ever see this tool
That's a damn shame.
Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Lets hope someone Makes exactly what you described and allows us to manipulate a volt/frequency curve for Ryzen 3000 on a per core load basis. That would be AMAZING!
Hell yes it would, even if it were to be restricted to a "dumb" single frequency (so all core) Vs voltage table it still would allow for way better control over the way the CPU operates; compared to what we currently have.
Right now with manual OC the CPU can/will sleep cores at idle (which I was personally impressed that it didn't just hold full time clocks/volts) but from what I'm seeing it's still getting the same voltage for every core regardless of it's state (so in my case ~1.337v vs stock 0.2v pre sleep state).

= Ryzen 7 3700X 4.3GHz @ 1.3v / Thermalright TS140 BW / Prime X470-Pro / 16GB Crucial BSLT 3600 MT/s cl16 / 1080Ti Amp Extreme 2GHz @ 0.987v / Aerocool Project7 P650 / Fractal Define XL =
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post #27 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by upgraditus View Post
For Ryzen I would love to see a clock/voltage curve adjustment similar to what we get with an Nvidia GPU through Afterburner or other tools. I think that would allow us to dial in the best possible results for our personal CPU. By default this CPU will request anywhere up to 1.5v to attempt to achieve 4.4GHz on just 1-2 cores (even while others sleep) and on the latest BIOS falls short of that by 50MHz. That same speed can be achieved with 1.33v but on all cores!
I saw this vid in another forum. Not sure if this is somewhat the kind of control you like for Ryzen.


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post #28 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 11:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post
I saw this vid in another forum. Not sure if this is somewhat the kind of control you like for Ryzen.

https://youtu.be/RnSqCpDknS4
While he wins 100MHz on his best core he's running fairly high fixed voltage, when he hits it with a somewhat stressful multithreaded load the other cores freak out and lower to base clock. I suppose it would be fine if you're playing a mainly single threaded game and can keep the main thread/s on the faster cores, but we're starting to see more games scale with more cores so this will hurt performance for them and would require some tuning to make work well for others, perhaps with per application profiles.

You can use RM to add a little bit to the best cores but you still need to stay within the power and more likely thermal restraints we are hitting, so as not to end up running into an OC that is detrimental to actual performance, but again you're still in "manual" mode and thus non-adaptive voltage.
Running a large offset to bring voltage in line with a manual OC is not an option since it not only kills performance but also risks stability at lower clock states. With a curve editor we could leave the lower states alone and just worry about the final one or two.

= Ryzen 7 3700X 4.3GHz @ 1.3v / Thermalright TS140 BW / Prime X470-Pro / 16GB Crucial BSLT 3600 MT/s cl16 / 1080Ti Amp Extreme 2GHz @ 0.987v / Aerocool Project7 P650 / Fractal Define XL =
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post #29 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 12:00 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post
I saw this vid in another forum. Not sure if this is somewhat the kind of control you like for Ryzen.

https://youtu.be/RnSqCpDknS4
Yeah as @upgraditus just explained this is no where near the tool we are hoping for. Ryzen Master is a good utility, and you can do a lot with it, but it doesn't give you the low level access to manipulate the algorithm that we are asking for. Appreciate the link all the same though!

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post #30 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 12:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by upgraditus View Post
That's a damn shame. Hell yes it would, even if it were to be restricted to a "dumb" single frequency (so all core) Vs voltage table it still would allow for way better control over the way the CPU operates; compared to what we currently have.
Right now with manual OC the CPU can/will sleep cores at idle (which I was personally impressed that it didn't just hold full time clocks/volts) but from what I'm seeing it's still getting the same voltage for every core regardless of it's state (so in my case ~1.337v vs stock 0.2v pre sleep state).
I 100% Wholeheartedly agree!

It is impressive the power gating that is possible on the New Zen Architecture. What they have achieved is amazing!

But if they gave us the ability to play with this algorithm at a low level, even if we had to sign some kind of waiver, man that would be amazing!

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