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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Is Ryzen 3000 worth the hype?

Im waiting for 3950x and possibly pairing with master or ch8 board with 32gb 3200 ram.

But reading all topics here, most i see are bad boost, hot temps, wasteful idle clocks, bios not saving settings, slow boot, fan curves not apply, unstable ram oc.

A whole host of problems i never encountered before. Not sure if 3950x is still worth it... Or to wait for intel cascade lake or next year ryzen 4000 with improved 7nm.
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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 01:02 AM
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Out of the plethora of people I know who have a zen2 chip, the only one that has had any issues bought a MEG x570 GODLIKE.

It takes 5-10 minutes to start. fails to wake from sleep with a white screen, will not boot any memory over 2400MHz. ::shrug::

Im planning on getting a ryzen 3950x myself. Not until AMD releases the rx58xx series. Ill upgrade the cpu and gpu in one go and keep my ITX board, at least to see how it goes.

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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 01:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by dansi View Post
Im waiting for 3950x and possibly pairing with master or ch8 board with 32gb 3200 ram.

But reading all topics here, most i see are bad boost, hot temps, wasteful idle clocks, bios not saving settings, slow boot, fan curves not apply, unstable ram oc.

A whole host of problems i never encountered before. Not sure if 3950x is still worth it... Or to wait for intel cascade lake or next year ryzen 4000 with improved 7nm.
Personally I think it is. I have an x470 Board that I had my 2700x. It has BIOS Flashback on it, so even though I forgot to upgrade the UEFI before plopping in the New 3900x in my excitement, I was able to use the BIOS Flashback to upgrade the BIOS and was off to the races since. Its faster in every way then my 2700x. Its Snappy, and it just chomps through tasks that you throw at it. I never had any problems gaming on my 2700x, whether VR or 1440p 120hz gaming the 2700x did that fine, but the 3900x gets me even higher framerates.

Because I was used to the way PBO worked with my 2700x, I was quite disappointed on how they changed the algorythm with the 3000 Series. It boosts to High Single core and lightly Threaded Frequencies just fine, but when under a heavy all core load it tends to stay about 200 to 250Mhz lower All core then what the chip is capable of, so that is probably my biggest gripe with the chip, but because the IPC Increase was so massive, I can All Core OC the chip to 4.2Ghz at a crazy low 1.25v and still be more then 10 Percent faster then I was on my 2700x during single core workloads, and have the benifit of having low temps from the Voltage Decrease.

If you like Overclocking there is also Per CCX Overclocking to get into, which is a fun new way to push the chip. The Ram was just not a problem at all. I have Several Hynix and Samsung Based Memory Kits lying around and I have tried them all, and they all worked with their XMP Profiles without an issue (Save for an issue with an older UEFI on the Crosshair VII Hero that made you set a VBOOT DRAM Voltage Setting before your XMP Would take hold), and if you like RAM Overclocking the Memory Controller in these chips allow a lot more Headroom for Higher RAM Overclocks.

In short, a lot of the reported Problems on reddit and in forums like these are people who are new to the New Ryzen Architecture and aren't used to seeing certain behaviors from there chip. The Truth is, outside of some niche cases, you can plop your new CPU in any supported board, pop in your XMP Profile and be off to the races with great performance without having to tune a thing. A lot of the problems with high voltages and weird boost behavior are just people not understanding how this architecture was designed, and other then seeing numbers they don't understand, the CPUs are actually performing great.

Destiny 2 not working was a huge drawback for me, but they just fixed that, so unless your a Linux user there is no reason not to jump into the platform, and hopefully by the time the 3950x comes out they will have solved that issue as well.

I Run 32GB Of Ram in an 4x8GB Config and have had no issues at all, and am absolutely happy with my purchase. Depending on what you do with your PC you may get better performance for your use case out of the competitor, ultimately that is something only you and your research can determine, but for someone who works with Computers for a living, I have to say that this Ryzen 3000 Platform is one of the best well rounded CPU's I have seen in a Long time. Anyways, I will shut up now, good luck with your purchase, whatever you get, just make sure its right for you!

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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 01:49 AM
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Yes!

I think AMD may have gone a bit bonkers (as usual) and launched early, but these CPUs are VERY powerful. Even at default settings with 2133 ram, my 3900X just demolishes tasks that took my 8 core 1700x more than double the time to do.

When we finally get a (relatively) bug free bios we'll be able to answer better, but if you ignore marketing and immature bios, the 3000 series CPUs are brilliant!

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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 01:55 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by crakej View Post
Yes!

I think AMD may have gone a bit bonkers (as usual) and launched early, but these CPUs are VERY powerful. Even at default settings with 2133 ram, my 3900X just demolishes tasks that took my 8 core 1700x more than double the time to do.

When we finally get a (relatively) bug free bios we'll be able to answer better, but if you ignore marketing and immature bios, the 3000 series CPUs are brilliant!
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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 02:51 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by dansi View Post
Im waiting for 3950x and possibly pairing with master or ch8 board with 32gb 3200 ram.

But reading all topics here, most i see are bad boost, hot temps, wasteful idle clocks, bios not saving settings, slow boot, fan curves not apply, unstable ram oc.

A whole host of problems i never encountered before. Not sure if 3950x is still worth it... Or to wait for intel cascade lake or next year ryzen 4000 with improved 7nm.
That's because no one starts a thread to mention that their new CPU & mobo are up & running absolutely fine.

A lot of the problems you're reading are of people trying to run the new CPUs on older boards, which don't have a proper BIOS yet.

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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 03:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by dansi View Post
Im waiting for 3950x and possibly pairing with master or ch8 board with 32gb 3200 ram.

But reading all topics here, most i see are bad boost, hot temps, wasteful idle clocks, bios not saving settings, slow boot, fan curves not apply, unstable ram oc.

A whole host of problems i never encountered before. Not sure if 3950x is still worth it... Or to wait for intel cascade lake or next year ryzen 4000 with improved 7nm.

Every single dollar. The vast majority of users who bought Zen 2 are probably not experiencing most of the problems you've read about. Like a person before mentioned, most people don't go on forums or support sites posting that their new CPU is working flawlessly. People only start speaking up if there's a problem and if Zen 2 is selling out everywhere, then you can see that the ratio of people posting problems vs chips sold is very small. I'm thinking most of the problems reported either due to a defect in the chip since it's a new process, or from motherboards that may have had a passable flaw from the previous generations but these chips are newer and more advanced so the flaws are now obvious and causing problems. Also by the time the 3950x is released, I'm assuming most kinks should be ironed out.


As far as Intel, you're not gonna get 16c/32t from Intel at anywhere near that price, especially if their new CPUs have any sort of demonstrable "edge" over Zen 2. They'll use that as justification for their "premium" pricing. And if their performance and pricing is about the same, go AMD anyways because Intel's been sticking it to everybody for years with their sky high prices and jumping to a new chipset every god damn generation. And Intel's next gen chip might not be much faster than their current gen, it looks like they're moving in the direction of ARM's big.LITTLE architecture with their Foveros CPUs. In the list of Lakefield features, the first thing that's listed is "Power Efficiency", which makes me think it's something better suited for laptops and smartphones than a desktop. I'm no engineer so I could be way off base but that's what I've gathered from what Intel has released about their new chiplet designs.
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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 03:54 AM
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Any new cpu is a waste of time, unless you can find any application that will have cpu utilisation more than 70% on any core at any moment.
For most users and gamers a fx4300 cpu is good enough even with a medium high end gpu like rx480 strix 8gb

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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 04:04 AM
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It seems that the 9900 K does better in most games from some of the reviews but after the AMD launch hype fades away then the 3rd gen may drop in price a little like gen 1 chips did which would make it a much better value.

It's great to see AMD with some popular chips that people can get enthusiastic about even if they don't beat Intel in some areas.

I'll be getting a 3rd gen and the 4th gen when they arrive will improve a touch more. Lets hope AMD can keep competing to make things more interesting
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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 06:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Personally I think it is. I have an x470 Board that I had my 2700x. It has BIOS Flashback on it, so even though I forgot to upgrade the UEFI before plopping in the New 3900x in my excitement, I was able to use the BIOS Flashback to upgrade the BIOS and was off to the races since. Its faster in every way then my 2700x. Its Snappy, and it just chomps through tasks that you throw at it. I never had any problems gaming on my 2700x, whether VR or 1440p 120hz gaming the 2700x did that fine, but the 3900x gets me even higher framerates.

Because I was used to the way PBO worked with my 2700x, I was quite disappointed on how they changed the algorythm with the 3000 Series. It boosts to High Single core and lightly Threaded Frequencies just fine, but when under a heavy all core load it tends to stay about 200 to 250Mhz lower All core then what the chip is capable of, so that is probably my biggest gripe with the chip, but because the IPC Increase was so massive, I can All Core OC the chip to 4.2Ghz at a crazy low 1.25v and still be more then 10 Percent faster then I was on my 2700x during single core workloads, and have the benifit of having low temps from the Voltage Decrease.

If you like Overclocking there is also Per CCX Overclocking to get into, which is a fun new way to push the chip. The Ram was just not a problem at all. I have Several Hynix and Samsung Based Memory Kits lying around and I have tried them all, and they all worked with their XMP Profiles without an issue (Save for an issue with an older UEFI on the Crosshair VII Hero that made you set a VBOOT DRAM Voltage Setting before your XMP Would take hold), and if you like RAM Overclocking the Memory Controller in these chips allow a lot more Headroom for Higher RAM Overclocks.

In short, a lot of the reported Problems on reddit and in forums like these are people who are new to the New Ryzen Architecture and aren't used to seeing certain behaviors from there chip. The Truth is, outside of some niche cases, you can plop your new CPU in any supported board, pop in your XMP Profile and be off to the races with great performance without having to tune a thing. A lot of the problems with high voltages and weird boost behavior are just people not understanding how this architecture was designed, and other then seeing numbers they don't understand, the CPUs are actually performing great.

Destiny 2 not working was a huge drawback for me, but they just fixed that, so unless your a Linux user there is no reason not to jump into the platform, and hopefully by the time the 3950x comes out they will have solved that issue as well.

I Run 32GB Of Ram in an 4x8GB Config and have had no issues at all, and am absolutely happy with my purchase. Depending on what you do with your PC you may get better performance for your use case out of the competitor, ultimately that is something only you and your research can determine, but for someone who works with Computers for a living, I have to say that this Ryzen 3000 Platform is one of the best well rounded CPU's I have seen in a Long time. Anyways, I will shut up now, good luck with your purchase, whatever you get, just make sure its right for you!

I'm sorry but reading your comment, I see that you're well intentioned but misinformed.


First, your 2700x never had PBO. It has PB, PBO is something unique to Zen 2. PB is stock with the new 3rd gen chips, PBO must be enabled in the BIOS or through Ryzen Master. If every motherboard manufacturer's BIOS is built to spec, then PBO comes natively disabled. Auto = disabled, to turn on PBO, it must be set to enabled. There's been a lot of people running tests and they say that as of right now PBO doesn't make much of a difference. I personally have seen a slight improvement in CB scores, but I don't have adequate cooling and that's a large factor with PBO. I'm still waiting on Phanteks to get more AM4 brackets so I'm using the Wraith Prism... anybody that reads this, definitely upgrade to a better cooler for anything besides the 3700x.



Second, AMD has clarified that the max boost clocks do not mean all core boost, it is single core boost only. If you're getting 4.35-4.4 all core on heavy loads, that's actually pretty good and should count yourself lucky. I've seen people complaining their 3900x doesn't even boost that high all core.


Third, CCX OC and memory controllers on Zen 2. I have not messed with the program for CCX OC, but The Stilt has found that if left on auto voltage your CPU could be fried by doing CCX OC. Definitely something that shouldn't be introduced to beginners or novice overclockers. Now as far as memory controllers go on Zen 2, my personal experience has been a setback. I had a late model 1600 that I ran with some Micron B die overclocked to 3200. The Micron B die that I had were Crucial Ballistix Sport LT rated at 2666 XMP/DOCP. I was super lazy and just OC it to Micron's 3200 CL16 timings. It worked perfectly fine with my 1st gen, on the 3rd gen I would get random reboots. Sometimes after 2-3 days, sometimes after 2-3 hours. After I put the RAM back to its standard XMP, everything's fine. So moral of the story--at least for me is, late model 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen may have better memory controllers than the new 3rd gen.



Lastly, and I may get a lot of flak for this from AMD fanboys but I think Robert Hallock is a liar. Either he's a liar or he's woefully inept at his job. This is in response to your almost direct quote of what he wrote on Reddit. The ONLY problem people aren't used to with the "new Ryzen architecture" is the seemingly high idle voltage. The way he says that make it seem like 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen also had the same behavior. It did not, this is something that was introduced with 3rd gen. And as he explained in that Reddit post, it's basically a nonissue anyways. All of the other problems that people are reporting are valid and has nothing to do with the "new Ryzen architecture".


Now as to why I think Hallock's a liar? I'll give 2 instances that I've come across. In his video explaining PBO, you'll see him giving an example of a CPU hitting 4.55 with PB and PBO which is supposed to be a delimiter/overdrive that gives an extra 200MHz boost would see the CPU hitting 4.75. That video leads people to believe that PBO will give an extra 200MHz ON TOP of the max boost clock when he knew exactly that if anything, PBO would only help to achieve max boost clock. Misleading advertising, lying, or ineptitude?



Let's move on to the next instance then you can decide for yourself. There's a problem, or at least I think there's a problem with the voltages on our new 3rd gen chips. After installing the new Ryzen, I noticed that in the BIOS under the stock auto voltage setting, my CPU was sucking up 1.407ish volts and sitting anywhere from 41-44 degrees whereas my old CPU was around 31-33 degrees with an offset at about 1.33ish volts. Now this is particularly startling because with the previous 2 generations, it was pretty much common knowledge to stay under 1.4 volts to avoid degradation. After I ran benchmarks, I notice my CPU was running stupidly hot compared to the old 1600. Immediate thought went to high voltage + high temps = dead CPU. So I started looking around, and I wasn't the only one that noticed this. In Hallock's official Reddit thread about idle voltages, people were asking the same thing. Is it normal for our CPUs to be sucking down 1.4+ volts in the BIOS and temps to be so high. Hallock himself responded that it's perfectly normal, since BIOS doesn't have any sort of power management so the CPU can't idle. Then we cue the white knights swanning in giving lessons in electricity with power equals this times that. And that as long as amps are low blah blah blah. I have a low tolerance for idiots that do nothing but regurgitate what a talking brochure told them. It doesn't take a genius to realize that despite whatever meaningful lessons they might have in electricity, the fact is the CPU is suck more volts than it should and is sitting at a higher temperature. At the time I didn't have any proof that our CPUs shouldn't be getting that much voltage in the BIOS so I kept looking. Then stumbled onto Jay's video from JayzTwoCents on 3900x overclocking a few days later. In his video, he noted that the auto voltage for his C8H was out of whack, his 3900x was sitting at 1.47 volts and 40 degrees in the BIOS when he surmised that it's about .2 volts more than what it needs. He also hypothesized that was the reason why his CPU thermal shutdown during light overclocking when he was running an AIO or custom block, can't remember. But Jay, unbeknownst to him, blamed it on Asus. He didn't realize that every other motherboard manufacturer was experiencing the same thing. Now at the same time, within that same Reddit post a few days later, Hallock added an update for July 13th I think. In that update he says basically if your motherboard has a normal or auto voltage option, change it to normal. Strange, why would he make that statement? At the time I still didn't have enough information. In the meantime I was scouring for information, making posts on Reddit about this strange behavior and stupidly high temperatures under load. All I got were AMD fanboys, white knights, and people who think they're "technical" or smarter than you when they're really not, telling me there was no problem. The new CPUs just run hot, that voltage is perfectly normal, and "because BIOS, haha, stupid" type of responses. I was seriously contemplating if these new CPUs just don't run stupid hot and that it was actually normal. But then I run into people who say that their CPUs on the stock cooler was anywhere between 75-80 degrees under Prime95. My CPU on the Prism cooler was hitting 74-76 degrees just running CB R20. Under Prime95 I was hitting 91-92 degrees. If it weren't for people that are saying their CPUs run a lot cooler, I would have given up and chalked it up to Zen 2 being a secondary heater for me in the winter. Then last week a Redditor gave me what I needed. He posted a screenshot of his BIOS showing his 3900x under "normal" voltage sitting at 1.032 volts and a cool 30 degrees. I had the proof I needed, then other things started to make sense. The BIOS may or may not have power management functions, that I'm not sure of so I won't make a statement on that. But the BIOS certainly CAN control voltage and within the BIOS your CPU is locked to its lowest multiplier and should be idle also. There's no boosting in the BIOS, why would your CPU be taking the volts that it does when it boosts? Also in the screenshot, his voltage value for normal was 1.2 volts. In my own BIOS, my auto voltage value was 1.1 volts. So why was he sitting at 1.032 volts while my own CPU sits at 1.407 volts?


With this new information I jumped into Hallock's placeholder post on Reddit for their upcoming July 30th something or rather. In that post, he says questions or whatnot direct it to /u/AMDOfficial. I made a post tagging /u/AMDOfficial asking about the high voltages in the BIOS and does it have a correlation with high CPU temps at load that some were experiencing. I also outlined what Jay said in his video, linking to it. Then I tagged Hallock himself in reference to what he said about those voltages in the BIOS being normal. Then I also linked the screenshot of the other Redditor. I asked so what's normal since we have Mr. Senior Technical Marketing Officer over here telling people it's normal, then there's this empirical evidence over here contradicting him. Crickets. I waited, the 30th came and went. Waited a few more days. So I made another post out in the AMD Reddit, exact same post tagging the exact same people. Crickets. Also AMD fanboys downvoting my post and more "it's fine" by "smart guys". So then I ask you to drawn your own conclusions, just what exactly is this Robert Hallock? On the one hand he can just be a straight up liar. On the other, he could just really be bad at his "technical" title. I mean a marketing guy is still a marketing guy, no matter how you dress it up he's still in the marketing department.


Here's the link to Hallock's response about BIOS voltage:
https://imgur.com/gallery/D5x472M


Here's the link to the normal BIOS screenie:
https://imgur.com/gallery/c5aUkm3


Here's the link to Jay's video:


P.S. To this day I still can't figure out if 3rd gen just runs stupidly hot, or if there are a number of us that have defective CPUs. Reddit seems to be filled with nothing but fanboys or smart people that make it their mission to prove to you you're wrong and that they're smarter than you. And yes, I've even made a thread asking people for voltages and temps, again the same people show up.
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