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Zen2 and HPET. My findings.

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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Zen2 and HPET. My findings.

Here is some testing I did with it on or off. (copy from my thread in reddit)

Reddit original post

Here are images: You'll see the impact in the task manager is greater but in this particular images it doesn't look like it doubled it (except for core 10) but if I open chrome and play a video the usage of chrome is much higher. more than double with HPET on.

TEST IMAGES

Someone mentioned HPET on some other forum and that reminded me that it was advised to disable it on Zen1 so I decided to test it myself.

I tested HPET on and off while watching the Task manager after booting. To see the level of usage for the main core that runs the system interrupts and also background apps.

I found that with HPET enabled I see higher (roughly double) usage in the Task Manager in general. Things like iCUE, Process lasso (when UI is open) and the base interrupts seem to use more CPU.

If I disable HPET and reboot I see the usage drops back down.

Would be nice if others test this as well and report back.

To disable / enable HPET:

- Open a command prompt with admin privileges.

- To disable, write: bcdedit /set useplatformclock false

- To enable, write: bcdedit /set useplatformclock true



To test:

- Fresh boot and open the Task Manager and see your CPU usage. Compare with HPET disable or enable.



Thank you.


EDIT: Indeed there is a big difference in DPC latency.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mo...3R3z9q2JUG_rQC
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Nk...hWeVDXcHRmnsU4
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MW...nhLWP-pDD-l_bw

With HPET off, the actual latency was hovering around 40us the whole time. With HPET on it was swinging up and down much more aggressively, causing a warning right away.

PC Specs: 3900X - X470 Taichi - 64GB 3000Mhz DDR4 - 1080ti waterforce xtreme - H115i Pro with 4 fans + Liquid Metal.
Per CCX OC Settings: 4.5/4.4/4.35/4.35 at 1.32V (1.26Vdroop) Max AIDA64 temp 75c at Turbo AIO settings / 83c at Balanced AIO settings.

Last edited by SaccoSVD; 08-09-2019 at 04:37 PM.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 11:18 AM
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Nice find, will test it tomorrow
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 11:22 AM
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Now do some proper testing that shows an actual performance difference.

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by BroadPwns View Post
Now do some proper testing that shows an actual performance difference.
Performance wise in CB20 with HPET on meant only a 1.6% hit (measured) In games It was within the margin of error. So not change there.

My task manager is way more jumpy with HPET on, I don't know if that is a good or a bad thing. With HPET off the cores are much more relaxed.

I'm running a fixed OC and I'm very aware about the background apps/services running, boot after boot I can repeat the very exact levels of usage 1min after boot, it is literally as in the images.

But, with HPET on, if I have Chrome opened with youtube I see more usage, a really noticeable difference. You have to run those commands and check for yourself.

I ran/run real time audio applications for the last 25 years and for me low DPC latency is paramount.

My test file showed I could run 198 instances of a plugin with HPET off (BTW, a 9900K could only about 165), and it was badly dropping out with HPET on. So for me indeed it makes a big difference.

To me this is the one that made me say "nope, I'm staying with HPET off" because the DPC latency checker gave me a consistent warning just after 10s of monitoring DPC, it was jumping up and down all over the place with HPET on. That with Chrome closed.

With HPET off it is hovering around just 40ns most of the time. I can leave it monitoring and do whatever in Chrome, forget about it for 5min and see no warnings.

It seems like is gonna stay off in my system. I don't care what it does, my 1800X had it off for 2 years and it was indeed beneficial there as well.

If you wanna try do so from windows, don't disable it in the BIOS.

Here HPET off resulted in no draft of time, I compared the system clock against my phone's clock for 20min and there was no draft. (just in case I didn't mentioned before)

BTW: No HPET off doesn't solve the CPU boosting in Zen2.

PC Specs: 3900X - X470 Taichi - 64GB 3000Mhz DDR4 - 1080ti waterforce xtreme - H115i Pro with 4 fans + Liquid Metal.
Per CCX OC Settings: 4.5/4.4/4.35/4.35 at 1.32V (1.26Vdroop) Max AIDA64 temp 75c at Turbo AIO settings / 83c at Balanced AIO settings.

Last edited by SaccoSVD; 08-09-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Allright.

I tried "bcdedit /enum all /v" to check the status of entried in BCDEdit.

With:

bcdedit /set useplatformclock yes

bcdedit /set useplatformtick no

I got insta DPC latency problems, visible in the task manager and in the DCP latency checker. Warnings happened after 1s each time I started it. Peaks of 240+ns immediately.

With:

bcdedit /set useplatformclock no

bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes

Low DPC latency, the latency checker doesn't show any warning after several seconds. Hovering on healthy 30ns with peaks on 100/150ns

PC Specs: 3900X - X470 Taichi - 64GB 3000Mhz DDR4 - 1080ti waterforce xtreme - H115i Pro with 4 fans + Liquid Metal.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I would love if someone else also tests that.

PC Specs: 3900X - X470 Taichi - 64GB 3000Mhz DDR4 - 1080ti waterforce xtreme - H115i Pro with 4 fans + Liquid Metal.
Per CCX OC Settings: 4.5/4.4/4.35/4.35 at 1.32V (1.26Vdroop) Max AIDA64 temp 75c at Turbo AIO settings / 83c at Balanced AIO settings.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 08:52 PM
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A better way is using message signal interrupts or MSI. I have this utility called MSI util v2. It is an application that is only 27kb. You have to run it administrative mode. Then there is a graph and checkbox. It will show supported modes. So your audio would be initially line based then you change it. My graphic and audio 1 intel management engine 1 USB xHCI compliant host controller and the intel nine series chipset SATA AHCI controller. Only then will you have lower latencies. Line based is software based while MSI is more hardware based and be more effecient in execution. Code runs better without stalls. I actually use HPET turned on in mobo BIOS. I also use platform clock true and that utility. Microstutter is vastly reduced. I also use a framerate limiter set to use cpu wait. With max prerendered to one. I have an i7-5775c with a gtx 1060 3GB.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 06:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by BlownGUNSLINGER View Post
A better way is using message signal interrupts or MSI. I have this utility called MSI util v2. It is an application that is only 27kb. You have to run it administrative mode. Then there is a graph and checkbox. It will show supported modes. So your audio would be initially line based then you change it. My graphic and audio 1 intel management engine 1 USB xHCI compliant host controller and the intel nine series chipset SATA AHCI controller. Only then will you have lower latencies. Line based is software based while MSI is more hardware based and be more effecient in execution. Code runs better without stalls. I actually use HPET turned on in mobo BIOS. I also use platform clock true and that utility. Microstutter is vastly reduced. I also use a framerate limiter set to use cpu wait. With max prerendered to one. I have an i7-5775c with a gtx 1060 3GB.
Link please.

Quote: Originally Posted by SaccoSVD View Post
I would love if someone else also tests that.
I will do some testing this weekend. With my modded bios I have the options to actually disable it in the bios. I also have options to access MSI on most things. My Modded bios on the C7H WiFI and non wifi only work with Ryzen 1000/2000 cpus not the 3000 series.

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by BlownGUNSLINGER View Post
A better way is using message signal interrupts or MSI. I have this utility called MSI util v2. It is an application that is only 27kb. You have to run it administrative mode. Then there is a graph and checkbox. It will show supported modes. So your audio would be initially line based then you change it. My graphic and audio 1 intel management engine 1 USB xHCI compliant host controller and the intel nine series chipset SATA AHCI controller. Only then will you have lower latencies. Line based is software based while MSI is more hardware based and be more effecient in execution. Code runs better without stalls. I actually use HPET turned on in mobo BIOS. I also use platform clock true and that utility. Microstutter is vastly reduced. I also use a framerate limiter set to use cpu wait. With max prerendered to one. I have an i7-5775c with a gtx 1060 3GB.
Thanks for the info

Any way to proceed with this? Any "nonos"? any "yesyes"?

I assume you do that with bcdedit /set useplatformclock yes and HPET enabled in the BIOS (mine is always on I think, as there is no option inside my X470 Taichi BIOS)

If I try I'll make a restore point just before starting to mess with it. I'm almost sure it can mess badly with the system as you try things (right?)

PC Specs: 3900X - X470 Taichi - 64GB 3000Mhz DDR4 - 1080ti waterforce xtreme - H115i Pro with 4 fans + Liquid Metal.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 10:16 AM
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There are a few things here at play. Most current AMD bios do not expose the HPET setting in the bios. I mod my own so I have access to it.

All system process can adversely affect DPC latency. There is a fix for the hdaudio pcie bus with a registy edit.

Generally it should not cause any issue with your system, as windows actually has 3 or 4 different timers it can use however if HPET is enabled it will be the default. I of course did not see the huge latency drop as the OP did but I have a finely tuned systems though I did see a drop and also found out my hdaudio microsoft one was causing some issues so I fixed it and that dropped that one from 1200 latency to 24 on the ISR latency.

This whole HPET issue comes up from time to time. Some people it helps, others it hurts performance and most do not see anything.

Keep in mind some older programs and games REQUIRE the HPET timer to run.

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