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Core Frequencies for AMD 3900X

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 02:49 PM
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Well and here also only 1st chiplet is a good quality. For me it’s a kind of fraud. You bought a pair of socks but only one is a good quality. I guess all you guys who bought 3900x need to return them
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-26-2019, 08:39 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Quasar12 View Post
Not sure what it is that you have settled on. Is that PBO?

What are your ryzen master /bios settings?

I take it back, my all-core at 1.325 is not stable


https://imgur.com/5FaJQmW


^^^ this and the other are BCLK overclocks. The first was on ace bios 120, but multicore improved with bios 144.


I gave up on using Ryzen Master and PBO. This is PB, BCLK 103.9, RAM 3466 (3602) 14-16-14-28. I think LLC is level 4 and switch frequency is at 1,000. It seems stable and not hot.


If you look at the average clocks, you'll realize the maximums are mainly for show, but the performance for benchmarking and gaming seems decent enough.


Would be glad for input from anyone who knows about BCLKing. I'm winging it.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 10:54 AM
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I personally found that for be with PBO, I could go as high as 103 FSB safely for a decent increase in performance, other than FSB not much helped if I did not want to go with a static OC on my 3900x. Comparing your Cinebench 20 scores your multi-core is higher I get closer to 7350, my single core is in line at about 542. I'm currently running at default -0.05V on the CPU.

ERIC
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 12:07 PM
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So I was able to verify a problem with PBO that Gamers Nexus confirmed in an article / video that they did on PBO and AutoOC especially with Gigabyte boards. On my Gigabyte x570 Aorus Pro Wifi when I just turn on PBO and max it out to "motherboard specs" then my all-core full load boost is limited to 4200 mhz. I can score a small bit higher in Cinebench on multi-core but my single core max speed under any load suffers. I ran a really simple test playing Shadow of the Tombraider or really any video game using MSI Afterburner as an OSD monitoring tool of all frequencies. When I play the game with PBO on I basically hard lock to 4175 on all cores. With Default Settings (PBO off) I bounce around from 4225 to 4275 on all cores. A quick Cpu-z benchmark also confirms some weird behavior where the multi-thread benchmark and single thread benchmark are higher with PBO off.

What gives? PBO seems to just increase vcore and thus increases temperature without a bump in frequency. I will say that a heavy load benchmark like Cinebench R20 will sustain maybe 50 mhz higher allcore boost with PBO on vs stock, but in most other lighter load benchmarks, games and tests I score worse with PBO on. There is no point in turning on PBO just for better Cinebench scores without a real-world bump on peformance on other applications. Anybody else run similar tests?
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 01:39 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by MikeS3000 View Post
So I was able to verify a problem with PBO that Gamers Nexus confirmed in an article / video that they did on PBO and AutoOC especially with Gigabyte boards. On my Gigabyte x570 Aorus Pro Wifi when I just turn on PBO and max it out to "motherboard specs" then my all-core full load boost is limited to 4200 mhz. I can score a small bit higher in Cinebench on multi-core but my single core max speed under any load suffers. I ran a really simple test playing Shadow of the Tombraider or really any video game using MSI Afterburner as an OSD monitoring tool of all frequencies. When I play the game with PBO on I basically hard lock to 4175 on all cores. With Default Settings (PBO off) I bounce around from 4225 to 4275 on all cores. A quick Cpu-z benchmark also confirms some weird behavior where the multi-thread benchmark and single thread benchmark are higher with PBO off.

What gives? PBO seems to just increase vcore and thus increases temperature without a bump in frequency. I will say that a heavy load benchmark like Cinebench R20 will sustain maybe 50 mhz higher allcore boost with PBO on vs stock, but in most other lighter load benchmarks, games and tests I score worse with PBO on. There is no point in turning on PBO just for better Cinebench scores without a real-world bump on peformance on other applications. Anybody else run similar tests?
I ran a lot of tests on my Aorus Master / 3900X setup, and the behaviour of my system is the same as yours. I tried Stock PB, PBO Auto, PBO Manual, PBO Maxed, undervolting 0.05 and 0.1 vCore, etc. Cinebench R15, R20 and CPU-z benchmarks all have variances which you can say are between margin of error. It's the same with game benchmarks. I tried F1 2016 which is a multithreaded one, and IL-2 which is heavily ST and core clock dependant. Max sustained core clock I can see on ST on this game is 4.3Ghz, bouncing between core 0 and core 2 constantly. I know my CPU can handle 4.4Ghz on the first CCX, so CCX OC gives me better results in both ST and MT scenarios, with better thermals as a bonus. I don't fully understand why PBO can't sustain at least 4.4Ghz on heavily ST workloads.

I recorded spikes in ST 25Mhz higher than stock with PBO enabled, but these spikes are not sustained to show an improvement.

At this moment, PBO does nothing to performance, and increase power consumption and heat a lot, so it's useless. I can run Stock with 0.05 to 0.075 vcore undervolt and performance it's ~1% lower, but with much better thermals and power consumption, and I can regain that 1% with memory OC eventually.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 01:53 PM
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I hear ya. I'm still trying to dial in my per CCX overclocks. I thought I locked in 4.375, 4.4, 4.3, 4.3. It's getting frustrating because one day it's stable (I use about 5 min. runs of Cinebench R20 initially to look for program crashes and computer shutdowns), then the next day I get crashes using the same settings. It seems like I'm having trouble with keeping temps consistent. If I can hover around 80c then the processor is pretty happy and stable. Creeping towards uppper 80s and low 90s = crash. Just to get decent stability I'm running 1.35v vcore, LLC Turbo and my temps can quickly climb into the mid to high 80s with those settings. I really want to be stable at about 1.325v but my 2nd CCD cannot handle 4.3 stable at anything below 1.35. If I suck it up and drop frequency and voltage then it may be pointless to do per CCX overclock and just let Default setting run and it boosts itself.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 05:48 PM
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I've been trying to figure this Max Boost issue with a couple of people on a few different forums. I set up a test/results topic on the AMD forums https://community.amd.com/thread/242812 The point of it is to see if anyone can reach these numbers as AMD claims.

We'd love for anyone here to check our results and contribute. I'd like to get a larger sample base. Please follow the guidelines in the link above.

One thing we are doing differently than OP suggest is we're observing cores through Ryzen Master. We noticed a difference in reporting between Ryzen Master and HWiNFO. I chose to go with Ryzen Master since it is a first party program. I hope that AMD was using when they said 4.6Mhz should be done since it's their own program.

Thanks!

Here is an example of my own findings:
Cannot get any core to Boost to 4.6 on any setting. PBO set with Ryzen Master. MB: Asus Prime x570 Pro BIOS: ver 1005: 1.0.0.3 ABB, RAM: G.SKill 3200c14. Highest MAX Boost: 4.367
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CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X | Motherboard: Asus PRIME X570-PRO | Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory | Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 500 GB | Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 Fury X 4 GB | Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 New ATX Mid Tower Case | Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 750 W | Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit | Monitor: LG 29UM59-P 29.0" 2560x1080 75 Hz Monitor
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 09:08 AM
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I manage to get it to boost to 4.6Ghz

Hi all, I got mine to boost to 4.6Ghz only one core so far... Temps are fine Max is less than 80C +- 2 I'm still doing some fine tunning after the latest ABBA BIOS update, I will post back results.



Here's my build: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/DvMZxr
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 09:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by nangu View Post
I ran a lot of tests on my Aorus Master / 3900X setup, and the behaviour of my system is the same as yours. I tried Stock PB, PBO Auto, PBO Manual, PBO Maxed, undervolting 0.05 and 0.1 vCore, etc. Cinebench R15, R20 and CPU-z benchmarks all have variances which you can say are between margin of error. It's the same with game benchmarks. I tried F1 2016 which is a multithreaded one, and IL-2 which is heavily ST and core clock dependant. Max sustained core clock I can see on ST on this game is 4.3Ghz, bouncing between core 0 and core 2 constantly. I know my CPU can handle 4.4Ghz on the first CCX, so CCX OC gives me better results in both ST and MT scenarios, with better thermals as a bonus. I don't fully understand why PBO can't sustain at least 4.4Ghz on heavily ST workloads.

I recorded spikes in ST 25Mhz higher than stock with PBO enabled, but these spikes are not sustained to show an improvement.

At this moment, PBO does nothing to performance, and increase power consumption and heat a lot, so it's useless. I can run Stock with 0.05 to 0.075 vcore undervolt and performance it's ~1% lower, but with much better thermals and power consumption, and I can regain that 1% with memory OC eventually.
You can read the strictly technical post by the @The Stilt here.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-a...ot-really.html

I found it to be pretty informative. Essentially, the Zen2 CPUs are all voltage bound. The have an acceptable voltage that they allow for light and heavy threaded workloads. Most of the processors are already voltage bound at stock, so enabling PBO and altering the PPT, TDC, and EDC limits does nothing, as the CPU wasn't bound by those parameters. I have attached a few excerpts from that post that best illustrate the issue, but basically Matisse CPUs are voltage maxed even a stock.

Since the FIT voltage is met before stock PPT, TDC and EDC and/or temp limits, buying a motherboard with better VRMs does nothing, that wasn't the limiting factor anyway.

Adding better cooling does nothing, as the FIT voltage is designed to prevent the heat density on the tiny CCD from getting to high. The IHS simply cannot transfer heat away fast enough to make high voltages feasible without affecting silicon reliability.

Essentially, Matisse CPUs being bound by FIT will perform virtually identically for everyone, regardless of motherboard or cooling solution used. (Multicore may improve a bit with better cooling, but not single core boost).

That isn't really a bad thing, because AMD can argue that they want everyone to get the most out of these processors and they do. I think what muddies that water with this whole boost thing, is that AMD hasn't really published anything on FIT. They say that a CPU will boost to Fmax if TDC, EDC, PPT and temp limits haven't been met. So a user, who doesn't see that 4.6 GHz, can say, well I'll just buy a X570 with an awesome VRM, remove all limits with PBO and raise Fmax to 4.7 GHz and then I'll have my max boost no problem. Except, they don't hit it. In fact nothing seems to happen at all.

Post like this serve to muddy the waters further.

Hallock seems to say that a better VRM and cooling will get you better clocks. Except, with The Stilt's data and being FIT bound, that just isn't going to happen. I realize AMD wants to sell X570 mother boards with the chipsets they spent R&D money designing, but this floats really close to false advertising. Better to focus on the better audio DACs, PCIe 4.0, and next gen wifi to sell boards.
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