3rd gen Threadripper, big fail and missed opportunity for AMD. - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

3rd gen Threadripper, big fail and missed opportunity for AMD.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 04:36 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
rdr09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: From the US but lives in Africa
Posts: 18,733
Rep: 866 (Unique: 633)
Quote: Originally Posted by sblantipodi View Post
AMD marketed those CPUs for PC enthusiasts too, the workstation only part will be the WX series on TRX80.
Sincerely 3960X is not awesome neither for enthusiast neither for workstations.
True. We all are entitled to our opinion and I have shared mine. Good thing 8 cores and 16 threads is all I ever need.

If you find intel to be cheaper and will support your use case, then I think the 18 cores would suit you well. Not bad for 900$ for something they use to charge 2000$. Bargain.

[email protected] 6 http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2211392 4.6 @ 4 http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2216580
5.0 @ 8 http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2511322
2nd AMD Build
(10 items)
CPU
2700
Motherboard
X470
GPU
290
RAM
3200 CL14
Hard Drive
1000
Power Supply
700
Case
212
Operating System
10/64
Monitor
40 1080
Keyboard
M100
▲ hide details ▲
rdr09 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
sblantipodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,315
Rep: 28 (Unique: 27)
Quote: Originally Posted by Hydroplane View Post
I agree 10000000%, this is a massive missed opportunity for AMD and a huge screwup. The prices are far too high. They should not cost more than previous gen for the same number of cores (24 $1250, 32 $1800). The prices are out of line with the mainstream lineup. ($500 12 core, $750 16 core -> should be no more than $1000 for 24 and $1500 for the 32 then.) Maybe okay compared to the 9980XE and W-3175X, but those are on the way out. Is the 48 core going to be $2800 and the 64 core $4000? Are they even going to release them, since the 24/32 already have a massive 280w TDP?
they had the opportunity to crash intel in the enthusiast segment
with an interesting performance per dollar ratio and they destroyed their possibility of success.

if ryzen 3000 offered a no brainer over Intel due to the good performance per dollar,
threadripper is now targeting the "I have money to burn people" only.

enthusiasts will not find threadripper so appealing not fo the bug price but for the bad performance per dollar that is so close to intel now.

sblantipodi is offline  
post #13 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 04:48 AM
Hardware Princess
 
Hydroplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 1,589
Rep: 28 (Unique: 25)
Quote: Originally Posted by sblantipodi View Post
they had the opportunity to crash intel in the enthusiast segment
with an interesting performance per dollar ratio and they destroyed their possibility of success.

if ryzen 3000 offered a no brainer over Intel due to the good performance per dollar,
threadripper is now targeting the "I have money to burn people" only.

enthusiasts will not find threadripper so appealing not fo the bug price but for the bad performance per dollar that is so close to intel now.
I am one of those money to burn people and I don't think I'd buy it either lol. I feel like maybe AMD is starting to act a little like Intel used to in this segment since they effectively have no competition for these chips other than the W-3175X. As I am already on X299, the 10980XE starts to look more appealing, even if outperformed by AMD.

IMO the pricing should be the following:

24 core $1000 (outperforms 10980XE for same price)
32 core $1350
48 core $1650
64 core $2000

Not sure they will even make the 48 and 64 cores due to the already high TDPs of the 24/32 core parts.

In the absolute worst case there should not be a price hike over 2nd gen. ($1250, $1800). The price hike makes AMD look bad. Yes, the performance is better, but those are the price segments AMD established.

It is like when Intel released the 6950X for $1700. The "segment" had been at $1000 for over a decade so it came as a shock to people.

CHILLER DESTRUCTION
Build Log - White Voodoo
Z390 Station
(11 items)
White Voodoo
(15 items)
CPU
9900K @ 5.4 1.50v
Motherboard
EVGA Z390 Dark
GPU
Titan RTX 2085/8500
RAM
Trident Z 3200c14 @ 4133c16 1.5v
Hard Drive
970 Evo Plus 250gb
Power Supply
silverstone 1200 from 2008 (other one exploded)
Cooling
HWLabs GTX 360 Rad (in RED)
Cooling
3x EK Vader 120mm 2200rpm Fans
Case
Dimastech Test Bench
Monitor
AOC Agon AG251FZ 240Hz
Audio
Built-in Monitor Speakers (3 watt)
CPU
7980XE @ 4.3 GHz 1.10v
Motherboard
Asus Rampage VI Apex
GPU
2 x Aorus Waterforce WB 1080 Ti @ 2037/6318
RAM
Trident Z 16gb 3200c14 @ 3800c16 1.50V (the other two sticks were sacrificed)
Hard Drive
960 Evo 1TB
Power Supply
EVGA 1600 T2
Cooling
HWLabs GTR 420+280 Rads
Cooling
7 x Noctua Industrial 140mm 3000 RPM Fans
Cooling
EK D5 Pump/Res (with RGB!)
Case
LD Cooling PC-V7
Operating System
Windows 10 LTSB
Monitor
NEC PA271W
Keyboard
Razer Blackwidow Chroma V2
Mouse
Logitech M510
Mousepad
anime tiddy mousepad
CPU
Dual Intel Xeon L5520 2.26 GHz
RAM
48 GB Samsung DDR3-1066
Hard Drive
120 GB Samsung 750 Evo SSD
Hard Drive
2 TB Western Digital Green
Hard Drive
2 TB Hitachi 7200 RPM
Power Supply
650W Delta PSU
Case
1U Rackmount
Operating System
Ubuntu Server 16.04
▲ hide details ▲
Hydroplane is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 05:32 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
CapitanPelusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 163
Rep: 10 (Unique: 10)
Quote: Originally Posted by sblantipodi View Post
they had the opportunity to crash intel in the enthusiast segment
with an interesting performance per dollar ratio and they destroyed their possibility of success.

if ryzen 3000 offered a no brainer over Intel due to the good performance per dollar,
threadripper is now targeting the "I have money to burn people" only.

enthusiasts will not find Threadripper so appealing not fo the bug price but for the bad performance per dollar that is so close to Intel now.
I understand your point. However I think AMD DID "crash Intel in the enthusiast segment". Did you not see how Intel was forced to cut prices on their HEDT lineup just a few weeks ago? It wasn't out of the kindness of their hearts, it was from the inherent market pressure the AMD Ryzen/TR lineup has had on Intel for the last year or so do to better value proposition that they offer.

Granted we would ALL love to see AMD keep exploiting this pressure and offer yet lower prices on their new lineup. I think that they priced the new TRs and 3950X pretty well and competitively when you reference them against Intel Cascade Lake-X lineup, but a bit high if you compare to their mainstream.

At 55$ per core the upcoming 10980XE is around 17% more expensive per core compared to the 3950X (assuming a price of 1000 for the Intel part and 750 for the AMD part).
When we move to the HEDT comparison the TR 3960X is going to be 5% more expensive per core than the 10980XE, however it is supposed to bring some improvements over the Intel part such as lower power consumption per core(higher perf. per watt) and slightly more expansion options from higher pci-e lane count along with pci-e ver 4.

a 5% premium for those things doesn't sound bad to be honest.

I was going/hoping to buy a next gen Threadripper as my new build to finally upgrade from my ageing 5820k, sadly it seems AMD will not, at this time, launch a 16 core 3000 series Threadripper, and the 24 core part is a bit out of my budget, so I am going with the 10980xe because i honestly do not care about power consumption and would rather have a quad core memory layout that the 3950x lacks, and i love to thinker and overclock and the 10980xe i think its better suited for that with the evga x299 dark i got waiting for it. AMD processors seem to come as fast as they can run out of the box and overclocking is a bit pointless with them, altho the memory tuning does seem super neat on the AMD side.

So in the end i do think AMD disrupted Intel's HEDT/Enthusiast party and in a big way, negating them 50% of the cpu margins from that inevitable price cut. But AMD is a company that needs to generate money too, and they did price their new lineup a tad bit higher, but i think they are justified in doing so considering what the competition lacks to offer and all the new features their own products do.

EDIT: You know in a weird way i think i ended up proving your point. I was waiting and hoping to buy a new Threadripper 3000 and the lack of 16 core part along with the 'just a tad over my budget' price of the 24core part made me swing back to the intel 10980xe. However i still think the price scaling is right and if intel had not lowered prices 50% we would all be posting the exact opposite. So i still stand by and sayt that AMD DID wreck the laughably overprice 2k 18core intel parts and forcing the 50% drop in price.


Last edited by CapitanPelusa; 11-08-2019 at 05:38 AM.
CapitanPelusa is offline  
post #15 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
sblantipodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,315
Rep: 28 (Unique: 27)
Quote: Originally Posted by CapitanPelusa View Post
I understand your point. However I think AMD DID "crash Intel in the enthusiast segment". Did you not see how Intel was forced to cut prices on their HEDT lineup just a few weeks ago? It wasn't out of the kindness of their hearts, it was from the inherent market pressure the AMD Ryzen/TR lineup has had on Intel for the last year or so do to better value proposition that they offer.

Granted we would ALL love to see AMD keep exploiting this pressure and offer yet lower prices on their new lineup. I think that they priced the new TRs and 3950X pretty well and competitively when you reference them against Intel Cascade Lake-X lineup, but a bit high if you compare to their mainstream.

At 55$ per core the upcoming 10980XE is around 17% more expensive per core compared to the 3950X (assuming a price of 1000 for the Intel part and 750 for the AMD part).
When we move to the HEDT comparison the TR 3960X is going to be 5% more expensive per core than the 10980XE, however it is supposed to bring some improvements over the Intel part such as lower power consumption per core(higher perf. per watt) and slightly more expansion options from higher pci-e lane count along with pci-e ver 4.

a 5% premium for those things doesn't sound bad to be honest.

I was going/hoping to buy a next gen Threadripper as my new build to finally upgrade from my ageing 5820k, sadly it seems AMD will not, at this time, launch a 16 core 3000 series Threadripper, and the 24 core part is a bit out of my budget, so I am going with the 10980xe because i honestly do not care about power consumption and would rather have a quad core memory layout that the 3950x lacks, and i love to thinker and overclock and the 10980xe i think its better suited for that with the evga x299 dark i got waiting for it. AMD processors seem to come as fast as they can run out of the box and overclocking is a bit pointless with them, altho the memory tuning does seem super neat on the AMD side.

So in the end i do think AMD disrupted Intel's HEDT/Enthusiast party and in a big way, negating them 50% of the cpu margins from that inevitable price cut. But AMD is a company that needs to generate money too, and they did price their new lineup a tad bit higher, but i think they are justified in doing so considering what the competition lacks to offer and all the new features their own products do.

EDIT: You know in a weird way i think i ended up proving your point. I was waiting and hoping to buy a new Threadripper 3000 and the lack of 16 core part along with the 'just a tad over my budget' price of the 24core part made me swing back to the intel 10980xe. However i still think the price scaling is right and if intel had not lowered prices 50% we would all be posting the exact opposite. So i still stand by and sayt that AMD DID wreck the laughably overprice 2k 18core intel parts and forcing the 50% drop in price.
AMD crashed no one. AMD forced intel to correctly price their CPUs and then made the big mistake to badly price their own CPUs.

this means the usual: "thanks AMD to make Intel lower its price, but I will buy Intel"
sincerely TR had the potential to be a no brainer but now that AMD cores costs more than an Intel core AMD losts most of its appeal.

I was ready to throw out 1600USD for a 32 cores or 1000USD for a 24 cores, I was so excited but now I feel like I'm swtiching from Intel to AMD that acts like Intel.
big disappointment

sblantipodi is offline  
post #16 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 06:42 AM
Overclocker in training
 
ThrashZone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 7,708
Rep: 75 (Unique: 57)
Hi,
I don't get the argument
So you're pissed a 1k.$ amd 24 core will probably beat a 1k.$ Maybe Intel 18 core so you'll go Intel because amd is now acting like Intel

CPU
i9-9940x With Heatkiller IV Pro and VRM Plexi-Copper water block
Motherboard
ASUS x299 Rampage VI Apex
GPU
Titan Xp with copper Water Block
RAM
Trident Z 3600C16 4x8gb's b-die default timings 16-16-16-36
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500gb M.2/ Samsung 850 Pro 256gb for os and 500gb evo for favorite games plus other wd hdd's for data and backup's
Optical Drive
LG Blu-Ray WH16NS40
Power Supply
evga 1200-P2
Cooling
2-280GTX Black Ice Nemesis rads with D5 pump-res combo and D5 top before and after rads.
Case
corsair 450D with added 2nd floor to house radiator on top
Operating System
Win-7 pro & 10 pro Win-7 Primary os.
Monitor
ASUS VG248QE 24" 144Hz
Keyboard
Logitech G910 Orion spectrum
Mouse
Redragon Perdition
Audio
Built in realtek and Insignia 2.0 soundbar HSB318
CPU
i7-5930k with Heatkiller IV Pro Plexi-Copper and koolance vrm water blocks
Motherboard
X99 Sabertooth
GPU
EVGA 1080ti FTW3 with Water block
RAM
Trident-Z 3200C14 4x8gb's b-die default timings 14-14-14-34
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo 500gb M.2/ Samsung 850 Pro 256gb for os and 500gb evo for favorite games plus other wd hdd's for data and backup's
Power Supply
EVGA 1000-P2
Cooling
2-240 GTX Black Ice Nemesis rads/ D5 pump-res combo and D5 top before and after rads.
Case
Corsair 450D with added 2nd floor to house radiator on top
Operating System
Win-7 and 10 pro Win-7 Primary os.
Monitor
AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz
Mouse
Red Dragon Perdition
Audio
Built in realtek and Insignia 2.0 soundbar HSB318
Hard Drive
eLeaf MELO-3 4ml
Power Supply
SE US18650VTC6 3120mAh 30A 3.6V 18650 Li-ion Battery - GREENx4
Case
ANGIS Legion MOD 200w Geek Vape
Operating System
VapeWild RazzleBerry 50-50-0mg nic
▲ hide details ▲
ThrashZone is offline  
post #17 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 07:23 AM
Hey I get one of these!
 
KyadCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,319
Rep: 308 (Unique: 218)
Quote: Originally Posted by sblantipodi View Post
AMD crashed no one. AMD forced intel to correctly price their CPUs
That is called crashing the market.

Forge
(18 items)
Forge-LT
(7 items)
CPU
AMD Threadripper 1950X
Motherboard
Gigabyte X399 Designare
GPU
EVGA 1080ti SC2 Hybrid
GPU
EVGA 1080ti SC2 Hybrid
RAM
32GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB (4x8GB 3200Mhz 14-14-14)
Hard Drive
Intel 900P 480GB
Hard Drive
Samsung 950 Pro 512GB
Power Supply
Corsair AX1200
Cooling
EK Predator 240
Case
Corsair Graphite 780T
Operating System
Windows 10 Enterprise x64
Monitor
2x Acer XR341CK
Keyboard
Corsair Vengeance K70 RGB
Mouse
Corsair Vengeance M65 RGB
Audio
Sennheiser HD700
Audio
Sound Blaster AE-5
Audio
Audio Technica AT4040
Audio
30ART Mic Tube Amp
CPU
i7-4720HQ
Motherboard
UX501JW-UB71T
GPU
GTX 960m
RAM
16GB 1600 9-9-9-27
Hard Drive
512GB PCI-e SSD
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
4k IPS
▲ hide details ▲
KyadCK is offline  
post #18 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 07:38 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
StAndrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 115
Rep: 7 (Unique: 5)
It could be just as simple as supply and demand. AMD's cash cow is not Threadripper, its Epyc followed by Ryzen 3 then comes Threadripper. With high demand for 7nm cores and low supply, I think AMD is being smart in limiting Threadripper supply and pricing accordingly.

Maybe AMD "missed" an opportunity or maybe 7nm supply didn't allow them take it. In end though, our argument means nothing. We'll see how the market reacts.

Asus Prime Z370, Intel 8700k @5.0Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti, 16GB @3400 CL14, Watercooling: x2 MCP355 pumps, x1 280 on front of case, x1 360 on top of case, x1 140 on back of case, x1 240 on bottom of case
StAndrew is offline  
post #19 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 07:51 AM
Expert pin bender
 
dagget3450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,977
Rep: 158 (Unique: 92)
Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
That is called crashing the market.
Yeah, I blame AMD also for having PCIE4 and 7nm in the HEDT market. I mean Intel was selling theirs for 2k$ no issue there right? Intel is just refreshing the same thing and that's totally cool. If roles were reversed right now AMD would still be blamed for stagnating and not pushing Intel to lower prices. Like literally damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

OP needs to take a long hard look at Intel and quit using AMD as the scape goat. Intel is the one dropping the ball this round sorry(nothing new tech wise). They are now the "budget" option it seems.

GPU i currently own: 390x/FuryX/Vega FE/RX Vega 64/RX 580 - CPUs: 5960x/R7 1700/X5650x2/E5 2863/e5 2670/R5 3600
Radeon Vega Frontier Edition Owner
dagget3450 is offline  
post #20 of 125 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 08:19 AM
ლ(╹ε╹ლ)
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,108
Rep: 176 (Unique: 137)
So, what I'm reading (while typing on my AMD Threadripper 3960X) is that AMD brings new 7nm product to the market, with more performance than last gen, on a new platform and you think they should be marketing them at the same price as last gen. I'd like to see you bring new improved products to the market and sell them the same price as your last gen product.

I mean I get it, it's not in your budget, but think about it, a lot of people bought 7980XE when it came out and that was $2000 MSRP, same for 9980XE and here we're talking about a 4 year old generation tech re-re-re-refreshed. There's definitely a market for AMD's threadripper line-up and I feel that prices a tiny bit high, but easily justifiable, no one else offers quad channel with 24-32-48(?)-(64?) overclockable cores other than AMD, that exclusivity alone is worth a considerable amount.

edit : proof -> https://valid.x86.fr/rnsg7f


Duality92 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off