Moving from 2700x to 3800x, OC advices - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

Moving from 2700x to 3800x, OC advices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-30-2019, 09:56 AM
I Love this Hobby!
 
Gunderman456's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,423
Rep: 603 (Unique: 498)
Quote: Originally Posted by wsarahan View Post
Thanks a lot for the explanation

-Guide to 1st Case Modding for Better GPU(s) Performance/Cooling-
https://www.overclock.net/case-mod-wo...ing-guide
-Guide to 2nd Case Modding for Better GPU(s) Performance/Cooling-
https://www.overclock.net/case-mod-wo...e-fan-mod
Bit'O'Heaven
(16 items)
Cigar ATX PC
(14 items)
CPU
Intel i7 4770k @ 4.5GHz
Motherboard
Asus Maximus VI Rog Gene
GPU
Gigabyte AMD R9 290 @ 1160GHz Core/1350GHz Mem
GPU
Gigabyte AMD R9 290 @ 1160GHz Core/1350GHz Mem
RAM
G.SKILL Trident X DDR3 16GB 2400MHz
Hard Drive
Samsung 840 PRO 256GB
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 3TB
Optical Drive
Pioneer Black Blu-ray 16X BD-R 2X BD-RE
Power Supply
EVGA SuperNOVA G2 1300W 80PLUS Gold Fully Modular
Cooling
Open Water Loop
Case
Fractal Design Arc Midi R2
Operating System
Win 7 Pro 64bit
Monitor
Nixeus EDG 27" Freesync 1440p 144Hz
Monitor
Samsung 245BW 24" 1200p 60Hz
Keyboard
Logitech G15
Mouse
Microsoft Sidewinder X5
Mousepad
ALLSOP Redmond Mouse Pad
Audio
Cambridge Soundworks 5.1
CPU
Intel Core i5-3570K @ 4.5GHz
Motherboard
ASRock Z77E-ITX mITX
GPU
Sapphire AMD HD 7990
RAM
G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3 8GB 1600MHz
Hard Drive
Crucial SSD 128GB
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda HDD 1TB
Optical Drive
LG DVD R/W
Power Supply
Corsair Professional Series Gold AX850 Fully Modular
Cooling
Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H100
Case
BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ATX Black Case
Operating System
Win 7 Pro 64bit
Monitor
Samsung TV 52"
Keyboard
Logitech K330 Wireless
Mouse
Logitech M215 Wireless
Mousepad
Corsair Vengeance MM200
Audio
Yamaha RX-V681 PSB/PolkAudio 5.1
CPU
AMD Athlon II X4 640
Motherboard
ASRock N68C-GS
GPU
NVIDIA 6600GT
RAM
G. Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1600MHz
Hard Drive
WD Caviar Blue 500GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM
Optical Drive
LG Optical Drive
Power Supply
Thermaltake TR2 600W
Cooling
Thermaltake Max Orb
Case
Cigar Boxes
Operating System
Windows 7
Monitor
Viewsonic 19” Flatscreen CRT
Keyboard
Gigabyte GK-K6800 103
Mouse
Zalman ZM-M300
Mouse
Corsair Vengeance MM200
▲ hide details ▲


Gunderman456 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-30-2019, 09:59 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 25
Rep: 0
A manual overclock will run cooler and use less power, but you will lose a small bit of single thread performance. Your all core freq will be higher though.
If you do overclock use 1.325v max.
2600ryzen is offline  
post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-30-2019, 08:51 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 101
Rep: 2 (Unique: 2)
Yeah like stated above. Undervolt with the AMD overclocking option in your bios. I run an -50mv undervolt and PBO off.

5200 points in CB R20 and temps under 65 degrees. And do overclock ram. I'm running 3800cl16 which turned out to be faster than 3600cl14 but both are close.

And a manual overlclock does not have to run cooler if you just use a voltage offset. I've successfully used up to -100mv with minimal performance drop. Manual OC is officially DEAD. it's not how these processors work optimally. Their standard boosting alogarithm is how they do. Just cool it well and undervolt a bit.

Treat them like modern GPUs. The cooler they get the higher they boost until hitting a power limit. But the cooling is a bit of a pickle for the 3800X even more because of the small die surface that needs to be transferred to the IHS and your cooking solution. So to cool it really well you'll have to spend quite a lot more on better gear with diminishing returns compared to the TDP. they are not high tdp chips and really don't use much power but it's harder to keep them very cool due to the small die surface area to contact with. I rock a 360 custom loop. Just get the best cooling solution that fits your case and fits your budget. And you'll be fine with auto settings and a memory OC.

Last edited by Cidious; 11-30-2019 at 08:58 PM.
Cidious is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-30-2019, 10:52 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
VPII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Hout Bay, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 713
Rep: 9 (Unique: 8)
Quote: Originally Posted by Cidious View Post
Yeah like stated above. Undervolt with the AMD overclocking option in your bios. I run an -50mv undervolt and PBO off.

5200 points in CB R20 and temps under 65 degrees. And do overclock ram. I'm running 3800cl16 which turned out to be faster than 3600cl14 but both are close.

And a manual overlclock does not have to run cooler if you just use a voltage offset. I've successfully used up to -100mv with minimal performance drop. Manual OC is officially DEAD. it's not how these processors work optimally. Their standard boosting alogarithm is how they do. Just cool it well and undervolt a bit.

Treat them like modern GPUs. The cooler they get the higher they boost until hitting a power limit. But the cooling is a bit of a pickle for the 3800X even more because of the small die surface that needs to be transferred to the IHS and your cooking solution. So to cool it really well you'll have to spend quite a lot more on better gear with diminishing returns compared to the TDP. they are not high tdp chips and really don't use much power but it's harder to keep them very cool due to the small die surface area to contact with. I rock a 360 custom loop. Just get the best cooling solution that fits your case and fits your budget. And you'll be fine with auto settings and a memory OC.
Sorry my friend but saying "Manual OC is officially DEAD" seems as though you just don't know how to do it. I played around with PBO and -0.1125vcore off set with my previous Ryzen 9 3900X and the temps I got was actually the same and in some instances higher than with my Manual overclock of 4.267ghz using 1.2375 vcore, but scores were better with the 4.267ghz overclock as it would not go higher than 4.2ghz with PBO, and more so drop to 4.15ghz.

Now with my new Ryzen 9 3900X I can run the cpu all core 4.2ghz manual overclock using only 1.1375vcore stable 1 hour Reabbench stress test with cpu temp 66 and CCD temp 67c, see attached. Now I can even do 4.3Ghz using only 1.225vcore stable also 1 Hour realbench stress test.

Now please explain to me why you say that manual OC is dead. And I am not fighting with you, I just want to understand your reasoning behind your statement.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Realbench 4.2Ghz Complete 1.1375vcore.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	844.9 KB
ID:	309222  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Realbench 4.3Ghz.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	862.9 KB
ID:	309224  

VPII is online now  
post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 02:59 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 25
Rep: 0
Nice I see your 4.3ghz overclock is using only 10w more power under load than the stock settings which max out at 145w 4.15ghz.


In terms of average power usage a manual overclock uses much less because the max voltage is so much lower.
2600ryzen is offline  
post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 04:29 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 101
Rep: 2 (Unique: 2)
Quote: Originally Posted by VPII View Post
Sorry my friend but saying "Manual OC is officially DEAD" seems as though you just don't know how to do it. I played around with PBO and -0.1125vcore off set with my previous Ryzen 9 3900X and the temps I got was actually the same and in some instances higher than with my Manual overclock of 4.267ghz using 1.2375 vcore, but scores were better with the 4.267ghz overclock as it would not go higher than 4.2ghz with PBO, and more so drop to 4.15ghz.

Now with my new Ryzen 9 3900X I can run the cpu all core 4.2ghz manual overclock using only 1.1375vcore stable 1 hour Reabbench stress test with cpu temp 66 and CCD temp 67c, see attached. Now I can even do 4.3Ghz using only 1.225vcore stable also 1 Hour realbench stress test.

Now please explain to me why you say that manual OC is dead. And I am not fighting with you, I just want to understand your reasoning behind your statement.

It's very simple. Most tasks don't require all core load and would allow your favorable cores to go up to 4600Mhz if you're lucky with the silicon quality. My 3800X cores almost all go above 4500Mhz and do 4400-4500Mhz during gaming. All because the boosting Alogarithm. You lock yourself out of 200-300Mhz on daily tasks other than Cinebench and Rendering.

It's performance that doesn't have to be left on the table. You can just use an offset to achieve the same temperature result with most chips and motherboards (maybe not all, I have only tried the 3600 and 3800X myself and have been reading). No need to lock all your cores into 4200Mhz and leaving the rest on the table. It's not a real use case at all. And not beneficial to daily usage. It's not what the chips are designed to do also. I stand my ground here. With Zen2 Manual OC is dead. and if you disagree that's alright. Check any youtube channel or tech website that has reviewed these chips and compared manual OC to stock boost settings and what they recommend to use. Manual OC or stock settings and I'm literally saying ANY because I haven't seen one reviewer stating any different.
Cidious is offline  
post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 06:34 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
VPII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Hout Bay, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 713
Rep: 9 (Unique: 8)
Quote: Originally Posted by Cidious View Post
It's very simple. Most tasks don't require all core load and would allow your favorable cores to go up to 4600Mhz if you're lucky with the silicon quality. My 3800X cores almost all go above 4500Mhz and do 4400-4500Mhz during gaming. All because the boosting Alogarithm. You lock yourself out of 200-300Mhz on daily tasks other than Cinebench and Rendering.



It's performance that doesn't have to be left on the table. You can just use an offset to achieve the same temperature result with most chips and motherboards (maybe not all, I have only tried the 3600 and 3800X myself and have been reading). No need to lock all your cores into 4200Mhz and leaving the rest on the table. It's not a real use case at all. And not beneficial to daily usage. It's not what the chips are designed to do also. I stand my ground here. With Zen2 Manual OC is dead. and if you disagree that's alright. Check any youtube channel or tech website that has reviewed these chips and compared manual OC to stock boost settings and what they recommend to use. Manual OC or stock settings and I'm literally saying ANY because I haven't seen one reviewer stating any different.
I hear you and understand your point of view. That 4.6ghz single core means absolutely nothing to me, most of the time the core doing so is not even used. I prefer a set speed and my 3900X at 4.4ghz with 1.3125vcore will do way better than any same cpu running stock or pbo.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
MSI Meg X570 Ace Bios V170
G-Skill DDR4 3200 CL14 @ DDR4 3800 CL16
Palit Geforce RTX 2080 Ti
VPII is online now  
post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 08:52 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 101
Rep: 2 (Unique: 2)
Quote: Originally Posted by VPII View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Cidious View Post
It's very simple. Most tasks don't require all core load and would allow your favorable cores to go up to 4600Mhz if you're lucky with the silicon quality. My 3800X cores almost all go above 4500Mhz and do 4400-4500Mhz during gaming. All because the boosting Alogarithm. You lock yourself out of 200-300Mhz on daily tasks other than Cinebench and Rendering.



It's performance that doesn't have to be left on the table. You can just use an offset to achieve the same temperature result with most chips and motherboards (maybe not all, I have only tried the 3600 and 3800X myself and have been reading). No need to lock all your cores into 4200Mhz and leaving the rest on the table. It's not a real use case at all. And not beneficial to daily usage. It's not what the chips are designed to do also. I stand my ground here. With Zen2 Manual OC is dead. and if you disagree that's alright. Check any youtube channel or tech website that has reviewed these chips and compared manual OC to stock boost settings and what they recommend to use. Manual OC or stock settings and I'm literally saying ANY because I haven't seen one reviewer stating any different.
I hear you and understand your point of view. That 4.6ghz single core means absolutely nothing to me, most of the time the core doing so is not even used. I prefer a set speed and my 3900X at 4.4ghz with 1.3125vcore will do way better than any same cpu running stock or pbo.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
I guess it's a personal preference then. But for everything I do and most people will do the boost clocks do matter. Why else this big fuzz about it. Performance wise these chips just function best out of the box with the offset that your silicon quality allows without degrading performance. You can see my screenshots. It's the same or better than most manual overclocks and definitely better single core. And I notice that in games.

If you run Cinebench all day or do rendering then a manual OC might make sense. Since you're constantly asking full perfomance and locking the chip down to a lower voltage might be more efficient. But for regular use I'd say it's surely obsolete. My 3800X doesn't get warmer than 45 degrees during gaming and idles at 25. 65 at full load Cinebench or unpacking big game packs. 68 on Cinebench loop.

Just PBO off and stock bios settings and -50mv offset with the new 1.0.0.4 B offset option. This doesn't work under ABBA.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	735300-1_1575215425480.png
Views:	12
Size:	147.6 KB
ID:	309266  

Attached Images
 
Cidious is offline  
post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 09:16 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
VPII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Hout Bay, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 713
Rep: 9 (Unique: 8)
Quote: Originally Posted by Cidious View Post
I guess it's a personal preference then. But for everything I do and most people will do the boost clocks do matter. Why else this big fuzz about it. Performance wise these chips just function best out of the box with the offset that your silicon quality allows without degrading performance. You can see my screenshots. It's the same or better than most manual overclocks and definitely better single core. And I notice that in games.

If you run Cinebench all day or do rendering then a manual OC might make sense. Since you're constantly asking full perfomance and locking the chip down to a lower voltage might be more efficient. But for regular use I'd say it's surely obsolete. My 3800X doesn't get warmer than 45 degrees during gaming and idles at 25. 65 at full load Cinebench or unpacking big game packs. 68 on Cinebench loop.

Just PBO off and stock bios settings and -50mv offset with the new 1.0.0.4 B offset option. This doesn't work under ABBA.
Lets put this into perspective, you score 547 single core, don't look at multicore as I am using a 3900X. Now I've done a run at stock but without a negative offset as when I did it earlier I got worse results. I will try again to be sure. But if you compare the slight gain in single core and how much better the manual OC is in multicore there is only one way to go for me. First cap is stock second with the manual overclock.
Attached Images
   
VPII is online now  
post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 03:32 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
nangu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Rep: 2 (Unique: 2)
Quote: Originally Posted by VPII View Post
Lets put this into perspective, you score 547 single core, don't look at multicore as I am using a 3900X. Now I've done a run at stock but without a negative offset as when I did it earlier I got worse results. I will try again to be sure. But if you compare the slight gain in single core and how much better the manual OC is in multicore there is only one way to go for me. First cap is stock second with the manual overclock.

I fully agree with you. Even more, you can achieve a CCX overclock which can yields very close average clocks at ST workloads, and way higher multicore performance than stock or PBO+, at roughly the same or slightly increased temps.

The highest core clock we can see on HWinfo means nothing. The only way to compare is by performance, or average sustained clock speeds. My 3900X runs 4350 Mhz max single core average with PBO on Manual, even if I can read 4650Mhz as peak in HWinfo. Also, if the low threads workload, or game for instance, is utilizing four or more threads, you will see a decrease in average sustained clocks due the way the PB algorithm works, while an all core or ccx overclock don't.

PB, or PBO+, relies heavily on die temperature. A 5°c variation in ambient temp can produce a lot of variance in clocks and resulting performance. Unless you have a really very good cooling solution, and/or a really good binned CPU, stock and/or PBO is not better than a good tuned all core or ccx overclock on these Ryzens. This is not the same situation anymore as with Ryzen 2000 series, where PBO was in most situations better than a manual oc.

Below is an example of a ccx oc I dialed on my 3900X. For reference, my best SC score on CPUz with PBO was 547, at the same temps. I can increase the first CCD to 4450Mhz at the same voltage, stable if I only want to play games.

Anyway, for the most use cases, stock or PBO is 100% fine, but you can extract more to these Ryzens 3000 with manual oc if you want.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hwinfo.png
Views:	10
Size:	139.9 KB
ID:	309520  

Attached Images
 
nangu is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off