Originally Posted by VPII
Lets put this into perspective, you score 547 single core, don't look at multicore as I am using a 3900X. Now I've done a run at stock but without a negative offset as when I did it earlier I got worse results. I will try again to be sure. But if you compare the slight gain in single core and how much better the manual OC is in multicore there is only one way to go for me. First cap is stock second with the manual overclock.
I fully agree with you. Even more, you can achieve a CCX overclock which can yields very close average clocks at ST workloads, and way higher multicore performance than stock or PBO+, at roughly the same or slightly increased temps.
The highest core clock we can see on HWinfo means nothing. The only way to compare is by performance, or average sustained clock speeds. My 3900X runs 4350 Mhz max single core average with PBO on Manual, even if I can read 4650Mhz as peak in HWinfo. Also, if the low threads workload, or game for instance, is utilizing four or more threads, you will see a decrease in average sustained clocks due the way the PB algorithm works, while an all core or ccx overclock don't.
PB, or PBO+, relies heavily on die temperature. A 5°c variation in ambient temp can produce a lot of variance in clocks and resulting performance. Unless you have a really very good cooling solution, and/or a really good binned CPU, stock and/or PBO is not better than a good tuned all core or ccx overclock on these Ryzens. This is not the same situation anymore as with Ryzen 2000 series, where PBO was in most situations better than a manual oc.
Below is an example of a ccx oc I dialed on my 3900X. For reference, my best SC score on CPUz with PBO was 547, at the same temps. I can increase the first CCD to 4450Mhz at the same voltage, stable if I only want to play games.
Anyway, for the most use cases, stock or PBO is 100% fine, but you can extract more to these Ryzens 3000 with manual oc if you want.