First AMD build - 60 HOURS in... 3950x x570 REV-E - Memory barely does anything beyond stock... failing everywhere. - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
Forum Jump: 

First AMD build - 60 HOURS in... 3950x x570 REV-E - Memory barely does anything beyond stock... failing everywhere.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 02:06 AM
Stock is too casual~
 
Veii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Austria / Bulgaria
Posts: 1,510
Rep: 109 (Unique: 58)
Don't think that Dual Rank B-die is a better choice than Dual Rank Micron Rev E
sometimes 4x single rank b-dies are a better choice than 2x dual rank something
alone from the looks for required procODT
where lower results in higher change to hit higher FCLK
Buildzoids recommendations are for enthusiasts, he doesn't recommend easy to work with kits

And he doesn't take into consideration required procODT or memcontroller stress
He does take into consideration board topology a lot, but ryzen users nearly never do
A2 kits for example are not easy to run at all, 4x A2 are a nightmare - be it single ranked

Keep all this into consideration when deciding what to buy
New hynix revisions look interesting too
All depends on the usecase, dual rank b-dies on something like an DTX Impact or any other dual rank Daisy Chain 2dimm board, is a good idea
But when, then at least B2 pcb soo we can push them higher than 4100~

SiSandra Inter-Core Bandwith 14nm Ryzen global #1 | Twitter
Personal Records
RAM > Viper Steel @ 3466C14 (64.2ns) & Alt | Hynix-MFR 3333CL14 (72.5ns) & Alt

GPU > Gigabyte 970 G1 @ 1595|1900 (Hynix) | RX 580 Red Devil GS @ 1620|2200 (Micron)
CPU > TR 1950X [email protected]1.2v & [email protected]1.365v[105Mhz FSB](3.23Beta)
#Main: 1700X [email protected]1.365v1.73Ghz IMC CL14 (64.2ns)」+ Dark Rock 3 | X370 Taichi 1.0.0.3 ABBA by The Stilt | Viper Steel [PVS416G400C9K]| Gigabyte 970 G1 | Samsung 850 Evo
Veii is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
negativefusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by tcclaviger View Post
Laughs in B-die.

Seriously, 32gb B-die is $230 on Newegg...

I know it's not AS important on 2000 and even less so on 3000 Ryzen, but why fork out for a 3950x then buy trash tier ram?

Just B-die and move on with life.

Also, you're on a WS board. While fantastic as an OC board, they're not explicitly geared for it in the same way the C6E/H, C7H or C8F/H are, which may be some of the challenge you're facing.
#1) The entire world does not live in the glorious U S of A... try over $500 for a 2x16 b-die, not $230.

#2) What do you mean "while fantastic as an OC board" << I have literally had 0 success with it to get from 3600c16 (XMP) to ....... anything. IN FACT, a FEW people, have actually said its because of the board that I am not having luck, apparently its a "TRASH BOARD" for any type of OC. So it's really interesting to hear the starkly different comment here form you saying its a "fantastic" board Made me chuckle (because I don't know who is right!! haha)

#3) This "trash tier ram" was highly recommended by other good overclockers, who pointed me to "buildzoid"... if a noob like me can't trust good/known overclockers, who can I trust/listen to?

Last edited by negativefusion; 05-22-2020 at 06:57 AM.
negativefusion is offline  
post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
negativefusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post
Buildzoid is the wrong guy to listen to about memory. 1usmus even said so in a thread.

Good to know, however, 1usmus isn't exactly spot on either... Gone through his "guide", and the fact that his 1.7.0 1.7.1 1.7.2 1.7.3 had a LOT of buggy issues with REV-E (and still does in 1.7.3) really brings into question his authority on the subject matter as well. For example...

All variations of these timings errors out, it was only way after the fact I was told that 3733c14 on Rev-E is impossible, and the "calculator" is spitting out junk values that will never work
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3733c14--boot - instant fails.png
Views:	9
Size:	92.9 KB
ID:	348166  

negativefusion is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
negativefusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by Section31 View Post
More of an fyi in regard to this post, if this is too frustrating give up. There has been other people who have tried to help him but gave up in the end.
This is the second time you posted this...

If we all gave up on trying to help each other, we wouldn't have a community.

In a community like this there will always be able with years and years of experience, and noobs like me just starting out...
negativefusion is offline  
post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-24-2020, 12:51 PM
Dork
 
Nitethorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Montana, US
Posts: 78
Rep: 5 (Unique: 5)
Quote: Originally Posted by negativefusion View Post
This is the second time you posted this...

If we all gave up on trying to help each other, we wouldn't have a community.

In a community like this there will always be able with years and years of experience, and noobs like me just starting out...
Just a thought from the outside looking in, I think the reason people post "maybe you should give up" is because while yes, this is a community where we try to help each other but a lot of your responses, the way you word yourself and the caps with lots of question marks comes across as very abrasive. People are trying to help you, have been for weeks now. There is no magic "plug this in and it'll work". Without having that kit right in front of us to test, it's impossible to just "make" it work for you. I know you probably don't mean to be so aggressive about it, but I think you should take a deep breath and realize that even the "unhelpful" posts are people that are literally trying to be helpful in some way. Just my 2 cents...

Gertrude
(13 items)
CPU
Ryzen 3800X 4.4ghz 1.293v
Motherboard
Asus X570 Crosshair Hero VIII (non-wifi)
GPU
Zotac 2080 ti Amp Extreme
RAM
G.Skill 3200 C14 2x8GB @3800 14-15-15-15-32-48 1.49v
Hard Drive
Silicon Power 1TB M.2 PCIE 3.0 x4
Hard Drive
WD Raptor 10k RPM HDD 300GB
Power Supply
EVGA G3 Gold 750W
Cooling
EVGA CLC 240 w/Noctua IPPC 2000 fans
Case
Phanteks P400S Modded Front cover for airflow
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
Roku TCL 55" 4k HDR TV
Keyboard
Logitech MK710
Mouse
Logitech G602
▲ hide details ▲


Nitethorn is offline  
post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-24-2020, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
negativefusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by Nitethorn View Post
Just a thought from the outside looking in, I think the reason people post "maybe you should give up" is because while yes, this is a community where we try to help each other but a lot of your responses, the way you word yourself and the caps with lots of question marks comes across as very abrasive. People are trying to help you, have been for weeks now. There is no magic "plug this in and it'll work". Without having that kit right in front of us to test, it's impossible to just "make" it work for you. I know you probably don't mean to be so aggressive about it, but I think you should take a deep breath and realize that even the "unhelpful" posts are people that are literally trying to be helpful in some way. Just my 2 cents...
The intent was never to be abrasive, and if you read my message above, specifically to @Nighthog , I thanked him numerous times (despite not making any progress).

I know people are trying to help, but part of my frustration stems from the "advice" I am receiving, is not actually tailored to my knowledge.

Most of the things people are saying are highly technical, and no one is actually explaining the rationale behind those suggestions, so it's like I am randomly typing in numbers that people are suggesting, without any logic, and praying that something works.

If this community is meant for only helping other overclockers that know what they are doing, then so be it, but I didn't get that impression.

The caps, are to emphasize points.

You can see that part of the frustration is from missing information, unanswered questions, or flat out conflicting information. For example, I have asked the following question a dozen times already, yet not a single person has been able to answer. The question was, why is Ryzen Dram Calculator 1.7.0 1.7.1 1.7.2 1.7.3 giving me starkly different tCL values for the same timing when I "Import" my profile from Thaiphoon. To be exact, the "Import" feature says my kit can do 3733c14 at 1.42, vs even the "fast" feature of all those four versions show cl16

Starkly conflicting information such as one guy posting a GDM OFF CL15 build to copy (with missing voltage information), then another saying "GDM Off = Nuclear Physics, don't do that", yet can't even get it stable at CL16. Being linked to @1usmus own "guide" where the DEV himself admits on page 2, he has not tested a single REV-E kit himself ... (which is clear considering the outputs his program spits out as shown above)

At the end of the day, this isn't rocket science (as evidenced by thousands of people doing it). It very well may be a hardware limitation on my end (as @Nighthog pointed out, I have a WorkStation board) -- but that same WS board is rated at 4400MHz, so, I don't know!

In short, I know people are helping (or at least trying to), I just think that if they kept in mind that I am a beginner when using their vast experience when providing advice, this would actually have resulted in some form of progress.

After 80 hours, the only thing that was "Stable" (outside of XMP) was 1 set of timings that didn't boot 85% of the time, and then told to try 40 other combinations at random doesn't help.

There has to be a logical process map that someone should be able to follow to get this done, I am not going for world records here, literally just trying to get something, anything, better than XMP that's stable, and have failed miserably at that.

Thanks for your perspective
negativefusion is offline  
post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 11:26 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
mongoled's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ayia Napa, Cyprus
Posts: 690
Rep: 24 (Unique: 19)
Hi!

It sounds to me that your expectations are too high and also you come across as believing that this should be simple.

I can tell you that this stuff is far from simple, there is no one here who can sit and explain to you the "logic" in what settings to change and when as there are so many different variable and there is no one size fits all plus you need to read and study and understand so much about RAM and memory timings and the formulas that link these timings to one another, without this base knowledge your are stabbing in the dark.

Also, I feel your frustration as unfortunately you seem to believe that just because some overclocking guru says something is the dogs *ollocks that its going to be plain sailing getting it to run the way the "pros" make them run which is not always the case.

And as a golden rule to overclocking your milage will vary!

Many of us have spent hours and hours reading and then tweaking, taking notes, reading again, testing, over and over to achieve the results we want to attain. Many times we end up buying more hardware to determine what may be the limiting factor or not etc etc.

And as for 1usmus, if you have put 80 hours into attempting to overclock your memory im sure 1usmus has put 100s of hours more to get his applicaton to where it is now and this is all for free, for the community. You are not coming across in a good way when you point out some of the bugs in his program and the manner you are doing it as it seems like he owes you something.

Think the best advice is to just use your RAM at the settings that work enjoy your rig and take a break from all the tweaking you are doing.

You can than return back to it a little later down the line and maybe than you will find that some things are easier to work with.

Lastly, so you can have a better understanding that I do know where you are coming from as i also was stuck with reaching a target I had set and i was using B-Die and I have been overclocking since 2002 and all the guides were saying that certian timings are "set in stone", well nothing is set in stone.

After deciding to document one by one all the timings that needed to be set and than changing them one by one did I determine that no two system are identical, even when they use the exact same parts and that my RAM needed some subtle changes to the "norm" to be able to run as I wanted.

The only advice I can give you with regards to overclocking your RAM is the following. Use XMP to see what the default values are, write these values down and than reset your BIOS.

Than set these values manually in the BIOS and than from there change one thing at a time, test compare, test compare, than change again.

Sorry this is probably not want you want to hear, but as you have said, you are a n00b and a n00b cannot expect to overclock like a pro, even when the "pros" do their best to help as hands on experience cannot be relayed through this medium.

All the best!


SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W
MSI X370 XPOWER Gaming Titanium | Ryzen 5 3600 2010SUS @ 4400 mhz @ 1.325v (prime95 load)
Viper Steel Series PVS416G413C9K @ 3800/1900 mhz | 1.52v | 14-15-14-14-28-42-252-16-1T
Asus GTX 780 DCII OC @ 1332/3522 mhz | 1.3v | Samsung 960 EVO 500GB
EK-FB MSI X370 XPower RGB Monoblock 1/2" ID | Swiftech D5 MCP655 | EK-XRES 100
Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 280 | 4 x Scythe GT AP-15 @ 5v
Thermochill PA120.3 | 1 x NF-A12x15 | 2 x ML120 | PWM
mongoled is online now  
post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
negativefusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 88
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by mongoled View Post
Hi!

It sounds to me that your expectations are too high and also you come across as believing that this should be simple.

I can tell you that this stuff is far from simple, there is no one here who can sit and explain to you the "logic" in what settings to change and when as there are so many different variable and there is no one size fits all plus you need to read and study and understand so much about RAM and memory timings and the formulas that link these timings to one another, without this base knowledge your are stabbing in the dark.

Also, I feel your frustration as unfortunately you seem to believe that just because some overclocking guru says something is the dogs *ollocks that its going to be plain sailing getting it to run the way the "pros" make them run which is not always the case.

And as a golden rule to overclocking your milage will vary!

Many of us have spent hours and hours reading and then tweaking, taking notes, reading again, testing, over and over to achieve the results we want to attain. Many times we end up buying more hardware to determine what may be the limiting factor or not etc etc.

And as for 1usmus, if you have put 80 hours into attempting to overclock your memory im sure 1usmus has put 100s of hours more to get his applicaton to where it is now and this is all for free, for the community. You are not coming across in a good way when you point out some of the bugs in his program and the manner you are doing it as it seems like he owes you something.

Think the best advice is to just use your RAM at the settings that work enjoy your rig and take a break from all the tweaking you are doing.

You can than return back to it a little later down the line and maybe than you will find that some things are easier to work with.

Lastly, so you can have a better understanding that I do know where you are coming from as i also was stuck with reaching a target I had set and i was using B-Die and I have been overclocking since 2002 and all the guides were saying that certian timings are "set in stone", well nothing is set in stone.

After deciding to document one by one all the timings that needed to be set and than changing them one by one did I determine that no two system are identical, even when they use the exact same parts and that my RAM needed some subtle changes to the "norm" to be able to run as I wanted.

The only advice I can give you with regards to overclocking your RAM is the following. Use XMP to see what the default values are, write these values down and than reset your BIOS.

Than set these values manually in the BIOS and than from there change one thing at a time, test compare, test compare, than change again.

Sorry this is probably not want you want to hear, but as you have said, you are a n00b and a n00b cannot expect to overclock like a pro, even when the "pros" do their best to help as hands on experience cannot be relayed through this medium.

All the best!

Thanks! I appreciate the input.

Two points of clarification though, the frustration surrounding the DRAM Calculator was due to it being pushed as the holy gospel to follow. It was only way after the fact that someone linked me to 1usmus' own guide, where he himself admits he has 0 experience with E-Die (so no, actually he didn't spend hundreds of hours playing with E-die). I am sure it's a great tool, and yes it's free, however, just because its free doesn't mean some sort of a quality check/control isn't expected. It's literally where the saying "you get what you pay for" comes from. I would 100% have paid for a actual functional tool rather than one that spits out options that simply don't work (under any circumstance - what is even the point of that?). This frustration was further compounded by the fact that his four latest change logs documented him "fixing" bugs/errors/timings with Rev-E (again, without actually ever trying Rev-E), and even the latest 1.7.3 (which he rushed out to release in two days) has glaring display bugs and spits out values that are unattainable (as I have already documented), but alas, I doubt this adored dev will be giving a noob like me a second thought lol

To clarify though, I was never "expecting to overclock like a pro", quite the contrary, this was my first foray into OC, and I was looking for something... anything... literally anything, that is better than the XMP profile. Are those too high of an expectation when you have literally the best AMD chip on the market, coupled with a expensive x570 board that boasts 4400Mhz, and a new E-Die memory kit that was highly recommended? I'd say no, but, we can agree to disagree?

With the collective knowledge of people (genuinely) trying to help, I would have bet, I'd get there...

Thanks again!
negativefusion is offline  
post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 08:08 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
treetops422's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 658
Rep: 24 (Unique: 18)
Ehh I spent like 5 hours using the dram calculator. No joy. I have a cheap mobo and ram kit. But it doesn't seem to be in the cards and my mild dyslexia, seeing and typing out numbers makes it a huge pain. I have to check and recheck.. I have a trash board($70), I'm happy to get 3200 cl 16. I've been told even that(3200 cl16) small STANDARD XMP feat is impossible on my board.... After contacting my mobos tech support, I found out it was just a matter of plugging in 1 ram stick to let my bios load the non qvc sticks settings. Good luck, if the calculator does not work, then man you probably have a lot of reading to do. Understanding timings from the ground up looks like a pain. No ty.

Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 Non XT Boost Core 2060 v1.25? Gaming Ram 950 with a 20$ Chinese water block on the, Ryzen 3700x 4.35 ghz gaming all core, 15$ Chinese waterblock, 3200 ddr4 cl16 Team T-FORCE VULCAN TUF B450m Asrock Pro 4 Mobo, 700 Watt OCZ PSU. 6 gallon res passively cooled
treetops422 is offline  
post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 10:11 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
mongoled's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ayia Napa, Cyprus
Posts: 690
Rep: 24 (Unique: 19)
@negativefusion

You are doing it again,

I never mentioned him spending 100s of hours testing E die.

1usmus owes us nothing.

Just because you bought the "best" CPU that does not entitle you to achieve overclocks.

You do know realise that XMP are already manufacturer tweaked optimised timings ?

Which you are attempting to tweak futher ...

Again, no free lunch, no holy gospel, you have been taking peoples opinions and making them into something they are not.

Use the tools to get a guideline than use your intelect to take it from there.

I agree that you bought good parts, but I dont agree with your expectations i.e. a n00b should be able to tweak already optimised timings with relative ease.

Some people get lucky and their combos work great, some dont, you happen to have pulled the short straw.

The only way out is either by buyiny different set of parts to find the culprit or YOU invest your time in reading the theories and equations in RAM timings and take it from there.

All that is up to you and the power is in your hands.

Wish you the best, im out .......

SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W
MSI X370 XPOWER Gaming Titanium | Ryzen 5 3600 2010SUS @ 4400 mhz @ 1.325v (prime95 load)
Viper Steel Series PVS416G413C9K @ 3800/1900 mhz | 1.52v | 14-15-14-14-28-42-252-16-1T
Asus GTX 780 DCII OC @ 1332/3522 mhz | 1.3v | Samsung 960 EVO 500GB
EK-FB MSI X370 XPower RGB Monoblock 1/2" ID | Swiftech D5 MCP655 | EK-XRES 100
Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 280 | 4 x Scythe GT AP-15 @ 5v
Thermochill PA120.3 | 1 x NF-A12x15 | 2 x ML120 | PWM
mongoled is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off