Sanity Check: I Believe My R5 3600 Die Is Incorrectly Soldered To The IHS Out Of The Factory - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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Sanity Check: I Believe My R5 3600 Die Is Incorrectly Soldered To The IHS Out Of The Factory

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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Sanity Check: I Believe My R5 3600 Die Is Incorrectly Soldered To The IHS Out Of The Factory

CPU: R5 3600

Motherboard: Asrock x570 Taichi

Case: NZXT H440

BIOS version: P3.00

Load Optimized Defaults: Yes

Ryzen Maser is installed, all stock settings applied.

Fresh install of Windows 10 Enterprise.

Drivers installed from Asrock's website for the x570 Taichi.

Cooler: Corsair H115i Extreme, with 4 Corsair SP140 fans mounted in push/pull, cooler mounted at the front of the case pulling fresh cool air in.

Pump speed set to maximum; all fans set to maximum.

Thermal Paste: Cooler Master Mastergel Maker; Application method: Pea size dot in center of cpu

Ambient Temperature: 21°C - 22°C

All Stress Tests: Prime95

Temperature Logging: HWinfo

Additional temperature logging: Ryzen Master (to ensure HWinfo isn't giving false readings; the readings are identical)

Results: 88°C maximum, 87°C average, taken 20 minutes after reaching thermal equilibrium.



Second test with the only difference being the front panel of the case being removed and the dust filter is removed:

Results: 85°C maximum, 83°C average, taken 20 minutes after reaching thermal equilibrium.



Third test with stock cooler:

Results: 94.5°C maximum, 94°C average, taken 20 minutes after reaching thermal equilibrium.

Fourth test with repasted AIO (again):

Results: 94.5°C maximum, 93°C average, taken 20 minutes after reaching thermal equilibrium.

(I got a slightly worse thermal paste spread this time, resulting in the 4°C~ delta from the original.)



This exact cooler in this exact configuration was able to keep my old delidded i7 8700k at 5.1ghz, 1.392vcore, approximately 230w power draw to cpu alone, at 77°C maximum, 75°C average.

I used the AM4 bracket included in the box, all standoffs tightened with pliers as tight as I can get them; the 4 screws holding the block/pump to the CPU are wrenched down as tight as I can get them. (No, I don't usually do this, bad idea, but I wanted to ensure mounting pressure is not an issue)



How is the R5 3600 running hotter than my old 8700k while drawing 160w less power?

(Yes I know I delidded the 8700k, but the R5 3600 is soldered, so there shouldn't be a big difference)

8700k at 5.1ghz: 230w

R5 3600 stock: 70w

Both the stock cooler and the AIO can't be defective.

And I know the AIO isn't defective, it cooled my 8700k fine; dissipating about 230 watts.

The weird thing is, the AIO isn't struggling at all (as it shouldn't be with a 70w CPU), the radiator's end tanks are room temperature to the touch, not cool (obv.), but not warm either.

In comparison, running furmark on my hybrid 1070 results in the 120mm radiator's end tank being hot to the touch, with hot air pouring off of the radiator.

All of this testing has lead me to conclude that the R5 3600 that I have is defective from the factory; the CPU die is incorrectly soldered to the IHS, resulting in the heat being trapped in the IHS, not making it to the cooler.

Can anyone here give me a sanity check to ensure I haven't missed anything?
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 04:40 PM
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You are comparing two different architectures and manufacturers. You can't do that.
Aslong as your core temps are with 10c of eachother the CPU is fine.
Are you 100% sure your cooler is working.
I feel you are doing something wrong on your end.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 04:55 PM
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Where are you getting those power figures?
230W for a 8700K, despite running at 5.1GHz is too much.

And also 70W for a stock R6 3600 is way too little.
With Ryzen the low power figure can most likely be explained with the motherboard (ASRock in general), since they use tricks to make the CPU think it consumes less power than it actually is.
This does not only make the power consumption to appear too low, but it has been known to cause thermal issues as well.

A R6 3600 running at stock settings should consume ~ 88W (the stock PPT limit) at full load.

In any case, the answer is power intensity: The 8700K has die size of ~149mm² and single CCD 3rd gen. Ryzen SKUs 77mm².
At 150W, which is a typical figure for an overclocked 8700K the intensity is 1.006W/mm². Meanwhile for a stock R6 3600 (88W minus the IOD power >> ~65W) the intensity is around 0.974W.
Higher the intensity, harder it is to cool the subject.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 05:25 PM
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If you overtighten the bolts on the block, it can actually bend the bracket to the point it lifts the block away from the cpu.

If there is a problem at all it's probably from improper contact between the block and the heatspreader.

Did you check the heatspreader to see if it was truly flat?

It might just be a hot running cpu - my son's 3600 sets the voltage pretty high by default and it can hit 80C during an R20 run on a 360 AIO.


What cpu voltages does HWinfo report ? You might be able to undervolt it and actually gain performance.


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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
Where are you getting those power figures?
230W for a 8700K, despite running at 5.1GHz is too much.
Here: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...225833/img.PNG
Pulling a little more with fans turned down (running hotter): https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...42974/img2.PNG

Quote: Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
And also 70W for a stock R6 3600 is way too little.
With Ryzen the low power figure can most likely be explained with the motherboard (ASRock in general), since they use tricks to make the CPU think it consumes less power than it actually is.
This does not only make the power consumption to appear too low, but it has been known to cause thermal issues as well.

A R6 3600 running at stock settings should consume ~ 88W (the stock PPT limit) at full load.
R5 3600 temperature: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2aw1L8XCvj.png

R5 3600 power: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9bU2JSm6AT.png

I've found very similar thermal results with prime95 with AVX enabled or disabled, looping cinebench r20, and OCCT. Prime95 pulls more power, but nothing can get it to the 88 watt limit, closest I've gotten is 80 watts.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
In any case, the answer is power intensity: The 8700K has die size of ~149mm² and single CCD 3rd gen. Ryzen SKUs 77mm².
At 150W, which is a typical figure for an overclocked 8700K the intensity is 1.006W/mm². Meanwhile for a stock R6 3600 (88W minus the IOD power >> ~65W) the intensity is around 0.974W.
Higher the intensity, harder it is to cool the subject.
Yes but at complete stock settings with a 280mm aio, max pump speed, max fan speed. Doesn't 91°C seem a little hot to you? On a CPU that is drawing 88 watts at an absolute maximum.

Last edited by MuzzleFuzzle; 05-25-2020 at 06:23 PM.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 06:15 PM
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For comparison's sake - my son's 3600 - thermaltake 360 mm AIO .
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Socks keep you warm View Post
You are comparing two different architectures and manufacturers. You can't do that.
Aslong as your core temps are with 10c of eachother the CPU is fine.
Unfortunately Ryzen doesn't have a per core temperature readout, but read that post again: At complete stock settings with a 280mm aio, max pump speed, max fan speed. Doesn't 91°C seem a little hot to you? On a CPU that is drawing 88 watts at an absolute maximum.

Old 8700k: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...225833/img.PNG
Old 8700k with fans turned down: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...42974/img2.PNG


R5 3600 Temperatures: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2aw1L8XCvj.png
R5 3600 Power: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9bU2JSm6AT.png

Quote: Originally Posted by Socks keep you warm View Post
Are you 100% sure your cooler is working.
I feel you are doing something wrong on your end.
I can see the pump spinning in software at 3000rpm, I can feel the pump spinning by touching the block, the thing sounds like a jet engine next to me so I'm fairly certain the fans are spinning.

I've repasted multiple times, each time the thermal paste spread seems to be fine, it's spread across the entire IHS, and is a thin but even thickness throughout.

Last edited by MuzzleFuzzle; 05-25-2020 at 06:22 PM.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post
If you overtighten the bolts on the block, it can actually bend the bracket to the point it lifts the block away from the cpu.
Yes I thought of that. Tightened normally the first time, over tightened the second time when I repasted to see if it helps, made no difference.

Quote: Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post
If there is a problem at all it's probably from improper contact between the block and the heatspreader.
Did you check the heatspreader to see if it was truly flat?
I've repasted multiple times, every time the thermal paste is spread evenly in a thin layer across the entire IHS, thickness of the thermal paste seems to be even.
No visible thick or thin spots.

Quote: Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post
It might just be a hot running cpu - my son's 3600 sets the voltage pretty high by default and it can hit 80C during an R20 run on a 360 AIO.
Yes that's kind of the problem. A CPU that hits TJmax at stock settings on a 280mm aio with pump maxed, fans maxed, seems a little defective don't you think?

Considering it's only generating 70 watts of heat.

Quote: Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post
What cpu voltages does HWinfo report ? You might be able to undervolt it and actually gain performance.
Sensor named: CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) in HWinfo reports: 1.300v (10 sec in prime95) 1.275v (30 sec in) 1.256v (3 mins in), 1.231v (5 mins in and settles there)
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 06:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by MuzzleFuzzle View Post
Unfortunately Ryzen doesn't have a per core temperature readout, but read that post again: At complete stock settings with a 280mm aio, max pump speed, max fan speed. Doesn't 91°C seem a little hot to you? On a CPU that is drawing 88 watts at an absolute maximum.

Old 8700k: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...225833/img.PNG
Old 8700k with fans turned down: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...42974/img2.PNG


R5 3600 Temperatures: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2aw1L8XCvj.png
R5 3600 Power: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9bU2JSm6AT.png



I can see the pump spinning in software at 3000rpm, I can feel the pump spinning by touching the block, the thing sounds like a jet engine next to me so I'm fairly certain the fans are spinning.

I've repasted multiple times, each time the thermal paste spread seems to be fine, it's spread across the entire IHS, and is a thin but even thickness throughout.
That's what i meant by not comparing two different architectures, my 3770K is a 77W CPU but my 9900K in a 200W CPU and they both hit the same temps with the same setup.

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Socks keep you warm View Post
That's what i meant by not comparing two different architectures, my 3770K is a 77W CPU but my 9900K in a 200W CPU and they both hit the same temps with the same setup.

Ok, I guess I see what your saying, then let's just ignore the 8700k result.

Still 91°C seems fine for stock settings, (im gonna sound like a broken record)280mm aio, max fans, max pump, 70 watts power draw?
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