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post #19901 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post

Ill take a look at some of that stuff when I get time. Drive strength tuning can pay dividends, but how much depends on how good the training is to start with. If the training routines are good and consistent, then there's not going to be much in it. If not, tuning can help increase frequency margins and or lower voltage requirements.

I guess you have access to the Family 17h BKDG? These values should be explained there in more detail, the Family 15h guide gives me some idea what could be done with these values, also it would be good to know what the current values are? Is this still encoded in "D18F2x9C_x0[3,1:0][F,3:0]0_[F,B:0]041_dct[3:0]" and "D18F2x9C_x0005_[0BFF:0000]_dct[3:0]"?

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post #19902 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Praz View Post

Hello

ODT set excessively high or low will result in increasing instability or a no-boot situation. Noting more. As ODT values are moved further from the optimal setting the current for the associated rail will also increase accordingly instead of remaining at zero. However this is a very small change in current and the system will fail to operate long before any appreciable current materializes.

What is the optimal setting or the middle ODT value?
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post #19903 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ninogui View Post

Hi all

...

- Maybe a bit off topic but I will believe a lot of people here must have a 240 rad mounted at front. For my fractal S case (and household - dusty) the best setup would be rad front bottom and fan on front top to help the vrm, but besides threat of bubbles is the pump - that will be higher up - going to struggle some more by not benefiting from gravity ?


In a closed loop system with no hydraulic accumulator, the pressure loss fighting gravity to some height is regained by the return path. It does not matter where the pump is in this circuit because the pressure across the pump is determined by the pressure losses from turbulence and restrictions around the entire loop. The pump flow for a particular pressure loss can be found if one has a pump spec showing flow rate versus pressure across the pump -- the counterpart of a fan curve in ventilation contexts (HVAC).

In hydronic heating systems with the usual accumulator (expansion tank), this is not true and the pressure loss from pump to the height of the heating register has to be accounted for in estimating flow.

As I don't have a water cooled PC, I have no idea whether accumulators are used in the loop.

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post #19904 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lordzed83 View Post

Bet You got Geardown enabled ??

Nope, 1T, geardown disabled. As user tarot pointed out, GD disabled is needed for odd CLs to work, didn't notice that, as i had GD disabled in the first place

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post #19905 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ninogui View Post

Hi all

First build ever of CH6 + 1700 and first ever wc aio lol, an upgrade after 10 (yes ten) years of faithful q6600 services

I am waiting for the arctic 240 am4 bracket but meanwhile have it temporarily on the supplied wraith cooler. Because the arctic 240 is coming with 4 (lower end) fans I am using 2 of them up front plus a corsair ml140 bottom front and back out

went straight to 9943 because of flareX 3200, xmp settings added manually, 34-14-14-14 cr1 at 1.373 (1.300 entered in bios), amd balanced power profile on w10
I have still to install the amd/ryzen asus utils, just messing with the bios, aida64 osd running in the back

On this temporary setup and on windows performance mode 37.5x at 1.373/1.393 cpuvolt (1.300 entered in bios) 1.221 soc (1.100 entered in bios) seems prime stable although vrms´s in the 60-68ºc, cpu at 48-51 or less, chipset 48-51.
This gives me 1653 in cinebench cpu. Is this minimally good for 24/7 ?

Just to see what would happen also tried 102 bclk on top, with the same voltages all over but crashed at boot, so I went back on that for the time being

- Are the values shown in bios real, and if so regardless of the normal fluctuations are they typically always higher than what you think you are entering ?

- Maybe a bit off topic but I will believe a lot of people here must have a 240 rad mounted at front. For my fractal S case (and household - dusty) the best setup would be rad front bottom and fan on front top to help the vrm, but besides threat of bubbles is the pump - that will be higher up - going to struggle some more by not benefiting from gravity ?


thks guys



Quote:
Originally Posted by kaseki View Post

In a closed loop system with no hydraulic accumulator, the pressure loss fighting gravity to some height is regained by the return path. It does not matter where the pump is in this circuit because the pressure across the pump is determined by the pressure losses from turbulence and restrictions around the entire loop. The pump flow for a particular pressure loss can be found if one has a pump spec showing flow rate versus pressure across the pump -- the counterpart of a fan curve in ventilation contexts (HVAC).

In hydronic heating systems with the usual accumulator (expansion tank), this is not true and the pressure loss from pump to the height of the heating register has to be accounted for in estimating flow.

As I don't have a water cooled PC, I have no idea whether accumulators are used in the loop.

Thks for the great inside.! I really wanted to ear this . Let´s see if I don´t get any pump bubbles in this config.

About my other questions any clues people ?
PS when I said 9943 I meant 1401 that´s where I am right now. Maybe I should go back into 9943 ?

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post #19906 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cookiedent View Post

is there any Solution to bring the CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 with Hynix and Micron Chips over 2400 MHz with BIOS 1401?
All Settings for Samsung doesnt work.

To overclock memory on 1401 BIOS you may try various ProcODT at different DRAM voltages. Possible process:
Leave memory timings on Auto, leave CPU at stock speed. Set SOC to 1.1V
1) set DRAM to 1.35V, DRAMBOOT equal to DRAM, VTTDDR to as close as DRAM/2 or above. Find all three in different submenus.
2) try ProcODT values from 36 to 80 Ohms, take notes which ones allow to boot to BIOS.
3) start with 2400 memory speed and increase step by step, then try next ProcODT
Then try 1.375, 1.4 and 1.425V DRAM voltages.
If nothing works set SOC to 1.15V (don't exceed 1.2V). It's a lot of rebooting and taking notes. Once you find which voltages and resistance work for your memory, optimize the timings. Finally change the CPU speed (if needed).
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post #19907 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:23 AM
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Now have the 3600 DDR4 GSkill Trident RGB RAM on 3200 14-14-14-39 1T this is the best I could achieve so far without adding extra Voltage to RAM.

Do you believe that with future BIOS 3600 is reachable without adding extra Voltage to RAM?
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post #19908 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:43 AM
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Now have the 3600 DDR4 GSkill Trident RGB RAM on 3200 14-14-14-39 1T this is the best I could achieve so far without adding extra Voltage to RAM.

Do you believe that with future BIOS 3600 is reachable without adding extra Voltage to RAM?

By extra voltage do you mean anything above 1.2v? DDR4 JEDEC specs are 1.2v. Most rams you purchase including the one you mentioned are actually overclocked and overvolted to 1.35v.

Rams are like CPU's in that distributors purchase them and then bins them depending on how high they can go up to. People run their memory up to 1.5v generally without any issues. Also the specs for your ram, including the 1.35v, was made and tested on intel systems. So while it might run at 1.35v at 3600, it might not...
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post #19909 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 09:50 AM
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Those who are able to train the memory at high speeds (>=3466MHz), but are unable to stabilize it due to signaling issues, I suggest that you try decreasing the "Command & Address" related drive currents (increasing the resistance).

AMD CBS > UMC Common Options > DDR4 Common Options > CAD Bus Configuration > CAD Bus Drive Strength User Controls:

Clock Drive Strength = 30.0Ohm
Address / Command Drive Strength = 30.0Ohm
CS / ODT Drive Strength = 30.0Ohm
CKE Drive Strength = 30.0Ohm

24.0Ohm is the default value for all of them, at >=2666MHz MEMCLK (regardless of the DRAM configuration).

These values are not very sensitive so anything up to 60Ohms should allow you to train the memory.

At default settings (24.0Ohms) anything above 3466MHz was unstable due to signaling issues (only B2 DIMM slot was able to run 3600MHz stable).
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post #19910 of 43791 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

[
@YpsiNine

NP smile.gif. Thank you for info, look forward to further share of your experience smile.gif. Gives us guys hope we may attain RAM nirvana biggrin.gif .
You are welcome. Here's an update:

Ok so I have had time to do some proper testing, and as I suspected my 3600 was not fully stable. I tried to fiddle a bit with some different settings on this speed but was unsuccessful.
Then I noticed @Gadfly post about his 3466 settings where he included all the timings and subtimings as well as his settings for voltage.
So I gave those settings a try, I did a 1:1 copy and fired up the machine.
I did a slight modification by bumping BCLK to 100.2 (because I am sick and tired of getting ~3893 MHz CPU speed, yes I know, I'm slightly pedantic) and reduced voltage all around just a little bit to see if it would work. And it did work beyond my expectations. Magic!

400%+ HCI stable. I don't know which of the settings did the trick in the end but combined they surely worked out nicely.
So went from 3200 C14 (with worse sub timings) on bios 9943 to 3473 C14 (with better sub timings) on bios 1401. This is a great bios indeed.
Using an 1800X. Ram kit is G.skill 2x8 3600 C16 (Part nr F4-3600C16D-16GTZR).

Using P-state OC with value 9C (3900 MHz).

Here are my general/voltage settings:
BCLK Frequency [100.2000]
Memory Frequency [DDR4-3473MHz]
Core Performance Boost [Disabled]
CPU Core Voltage [Offset mode]
CPU Offset Mode Sign [+]
- CPU Core Voltage Offset [0.02500]
CPU SOC Voltage [Manual mode]
- VDDSOC Voltage Override [1.11250]
DRAM Voltage [1.38000]
1.8V PLL Voltage [1.80000]
1.05V SB Voltage [1.05000]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
VDDSOC Load-line Calibration [Level 1]
DRAM VBoot Voltage [1.38000]

Mem:
DRAM CAS# Latency [14]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Read Delay [14]
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Write Delay [14]
DRAM RAS# PRE Time [14]
DRAM RAS# ACT Time [28]
Trc_SM [42]
TrrdS_SM [6]
TrrdL_SM [9]
Tfaw_SM [36]
TwtrS_SM [4]
TwtrL_SM [10]
Twr_SM [10]
Trcpage_SM [Auto]
TrdrdScl_SM [2]
TwrwrScl_SM [2]
Trfc_SM [280]
Trfc2_SM [Auto]
Trfc4_SM [Auto]
Tcwl_SM [14]
Trtp_SM [8]
Trdwr_SM [6]
Twrrd_SM [3]
TwrwrSc_SM [1]
TwrwrSd_SM [7]
TwrwrDd_SM [7]
TrdrdSc_SM [1]
TrdrdSd_SM [5]
TrdrdDd_SM [5]
Tcke_SM [6]
ProcODT_SM [Auto]
Cmd2T [1T]
Gear Down Mode [Enabled]
VTTDDR Voltage [0.69300]
DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA [0.50000]

Full settings file attached as well as a screenshot of the HCI run.
Thanks a lot again to Gadfly for these settings. I will be looking around if you ever put out a 3600 C16 configuration.
And thanks to e@elmor @[email protected] for making this motherboard a great one.

current_setting.txt 20k .txt file


Attached Files
File Type: txt current_setting.txt (19.7 KB, 25 views)

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