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post #21351 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 09:06 AM
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Antifreeze is a toxic material so handle with care. Do not swallow it !!!

And feel sorry for you.frown.gif
No need to, it's just an inconvenience yet. I don't think anything was damaged beside the AIO. That is, unless the CPU was baked for good, which according to Elmor should not happen after a code 8.

Here is some more information from Asetek: "demineralized water and a special glycol based additives. This special environmentally friendly formulation is non-corrosive, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and can withstand a storage over a wide range of temperatures."

"specially formulated, non-toxic, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and corrosion inhibiting cooling liquid"

No idea how trustworthy those marketing FAQ are, though. wink.gif

There are several glycols (e.g., ethylene, propylene, methylene), some more toxic than others. I think it is the previously used automobile coolant ethylene glycol that is attractive to pets and is toxic, but I haven't studied the subject.

Distilled water by the gallon is available at supermarkets (at least in the USA) for use in steam irons to avoid mineralization of the steam cavity.

Rig running Ryzen [email protected] GHz, [email protected] MT/s, Linux Mint 18.1 on Asus C6H
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post #21352 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 09:11 AM
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Yea not sure what happened there but i don't like AIOs period. My water pump and temps have been fine and im even using w_pump header for my d5 pump and haven't had any issues. Then again I dont run the pump with a curve its a set speed at all times (its pretty damn silent anyways pretty much inaudible with the rad fans going).
I disabled the pump on purpose to simulate a failed pump. Then I tested this against using no Sense Skew (aka allowing CPU thermal shutdown to happen) vs. Asus' Sense Skew defaults (aka forcing the CPU into a code 8 crash instead of thermal shutdown).
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Not sure if its a coincidence with miskew or his aio just gave up ghost especially at high temps (theyre made pretty cheaply to begin with). And miskew isn't an Asus thing, its an AMD thing lol.
It's Asus decision to enable Sense Skew and their decision to use a default value that disallows thermal shutdown.
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You can buy a pressure relief valve and add it either in line or on a radiator port. I've had no issues with extra pressure to begin with, and if i did it would just raise the level in my reservoir (which i dont keep fully filled for this reason), AIOs are filled and filled fully, they have no where to expand if something goes wrong so stuff just pops off.
Yep, the reservoir with extra air and pressure relief is an advantage of custom systems. I don't know whether this would be able to withstand temperature close to 100°C, because I don't know what the boiling point of coolants is and how high pressure is inside the loop (which lowers the boiling point).
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Its a shame your AIO went, if i were you id clean some of your parts with distilled water, wipe em dry then let it air dry. You could even use compressed air at very low psi if you have access to a compressor.
A simple hair dryer should also do the trick there. wink.gif

Concerning the AIO, one reason for me to start this whole test scenario was that I wanted to know what happened when all this heat builds up on a system that does not allow thermal shutdown. Now I know the weak points and can work with that knowledge. I don't want our home to go up in flames just because I left the PC running unattended. Furthermore some people rely on my consulting for various computer related stuff, so I like to find out these things by practical experiments myself instead of just relying on spec material and forum "hearsay". Not that anyone will ask me about liquid cooling anytime soon, but the opportunity came up anyway. rolleyes.gif
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post #21353 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 09:11 AM
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How is pressure built-up handled in custom loops? If the temperature keeps increasing with a failed pump in a closed system things get complicated (or liquid spilled), aye?!

I'm not sure pressure due to heat is a big deal in a custom loop. I've managed to practically boil my loop once with the CH6 / R1700 and there were no complications. I was gaming with my fan profile set to "silent" mode, which means I was running damn near passive. Then I decided to game for 2+ hours (using not much CPU), and the liquid temps ended up being 65C (which exceeds the tube spec of 60C). Nothing popped, no pressure I could detect, etc. Just a VERY warm system.

RANT: This is why I would MUCH prefer to be able to tie my PWM fan curve to liquid temps instead of CPU, but the CH6 (and every other Asus board) are all TERRIBLE with fan control. Just awful. I'm a die hard Asus fanboy, but they've STUNK at this FOREVER. /end rant smile.gif

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post #21354 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 09:17 AM
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Keep in mind that my pump was disabled and the radiator was positioned below the pump. So while the CPU kept baking the pump and liquid inside there was virtually zero movement of the liquid inside the hoses. Had the radiator been placed at the top then the warm liquid might have traveled upwards by itself, but with my installation it was all congested at the hottest location (with close to 100°C heat).
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post #21355 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 09:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

I disabled the pump on purpose to simulate a failed pump. Then I tested this against using no Sense Skew (aka allowing CPU thermal shutdown to happen) vs. Asus' Sense Skew defaults (aka forcing the CPU into a code 8 crash instead of thermal shutdown).
It's Asus decision to enable Sense Skew and their decision to use a default value that disallows thermal shutdown.
Yep, the reservoir with extra air and pressure relief is an advantage of custom systems. I don't know whether this would be able to withstand temperature close to 100°C, because I don't know what the boiling point of coolants is and how high pressure is inside the loop (which lowers the boiling point).
A simple hair dryer should also do the trick there. wink.gif

Concerning the AIO, one reason for me to start this whole test scenario was that I wanted to know what happened when all this heat builds up on a system that does not allow thermal shutdown. Now I know the weak points and can work with that knowledge. I don't want our home to go up in flames just because I left the PC running unattended. Furthermore some people rely on my consulting for various computer related stuff, so I like to find out these things by practical experiments myself instead of just relying on spec material and forum "hearsay". Not that anyone will ask me about liquid cooling anytime soon, but the opportunity came up anyway. rolleyes.gif

An AIO and a custom loop can both handle 100°C CPU temps with ease, problem here is that you disabled your pump, in that regard the pump isn't spinning and temperatures will rise VERY quickly considering a CPU is constant heat and quite a lot of it, especially when being soldered. This isnt a case of miskew killed my AIO this is more a "i killed my AIO by unplugging it", would be the same on an Intel system if you unplug the AIO and let it run without monitoring temps at the same time. How do i know? Ive done it on a z270 lol. AIOs don't have very high pressure cable seals and thats exactly what you blew, water cooling cables are also rated at a max of 50°C water temp, the problem isn't that the cpu got hot, its that the water got way too hot (doesn't need to boil to cause parts to fail) and it failed.
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post #21356 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

An AIO and a custom loop can both handle 100°C CPU temps with ease, problem here is that you disabled your pump, in that regard the pump isn't spinning and temperatures will rise VERY quickly considering a CPU is constant heat and quite a lot of it, especially when being soldered. This isnt a case of miskew killed my AIO this is more a "i killed my AIO by unplugging it", would be the same on an Intel system if you unplug the AIO and let it run without monitoring temps at the same time. How do i know? Ive done it on a z270 lol. AIOs don't have very high pressure cable seals and thats exactly what you blew, water cooling cables are also rated at a max of 50°C water temp, the problem isn't that the cpu got hot, its that the water got way too hot (doesn't need to boil to cause parts to fail) and it failed.
Let's me reply by stating (rather repeating) the obvious: This did not happen when thermal shutdown turned off the PC in a timely manner, with socket temps below 80°C. It only happened when faulty default Sense Skew settings allowed the CPU to keep cooking far above its emergency shutdown temperature. It never should have reached that high, claiming some 80°C Tctl when 115°C has been exceeded already. Sense Skew is to blame for that.

Look at this old screenshot again. Tctl is claimed to be 66°C while socket temp reached 78°C already. Now consider that at around 79 - 80°C socket temp a thermal shutdown should happen already, aka Tctl would be around 115°C without Sense Skew! 66°C vs. 110 - 115°C just because of a single default (!) BIOS parameter? Who came up with the brilliant idea to skew temperature readings anyway? drunken.gif




(Emergency) thermal shutdown exists for a reason, disabling it (by default) is not a good idea!
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post #21357 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 10:04 AM
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Can someone please answer which is faster setting for 4 sticks of G.skill single sided b-die 4X8=32 on Asus C6H mobo.
Should Bank Group Swap be Enabled or Disabled?
Thank you
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post #21358 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 10:06 AM
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@hotstocks

ProcODT suggestions are in thread. Then finalheaven has shared a few times he runs 4x 8GB 3466MHz on 3200MHz kit, his settings are in here and the RAM thread. Next BankGroupSwap setting was again mentioned by me only yesterday and I don't know how many times before it has been stated.

Case situation for BankGroupSwap and BankGroupSwapAlt to be Disabled is 1 dimm per channel and single rank kit. Hopefully next user on a search of thread will see this.

Link to post.
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post #21359 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 10:13 AM
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Let's me reply by stating (rather repeating) the obvious: This did not happen when thermal shutdown turned off the PC in a timely manner, with socket temps below 80°C. It only happened when faulty default Sense Skew settings allowed the CPU to keep cooking far above its emergency shutdown temperature. It never should have reached that high, claiming some 80°C Tctl when 115°C has been exceeded already. Sense Skew is to blame for that.

Look at this old screenshot again. Tctl is claimed to be 71°C while socket temp reached 78°C already. Now consider that at around 79 - 80°C socket temp a thermal shutdown should happen already, aka Tctl would be around 115°C without Sense Skew! 71°C vs. 110 - 115°C just because of a single default (!) BIOS parameter? Who came up with the brilliant idea to skew temperature readings anyway? drunken.gif




(Emergency) thermal shutdown exists for a reason, disabling it (by default) is not a good idea!

Sorry to hear about your little accident with the fluids redface.gif
You do have the +20c offset tho so you still have some headroom before frying anything although i do see your point in this.
At 1.387v load and 20min of Aida my temps show about 65c with some spikes to 73c (not sure what this is since voltage not rising, maybe some LLC stuff?) but the socket temps don't exceed 52c so why do you have socket temps higher than cpu temps?
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post #21360 of 43362 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 10:20 AM
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so why do you have socket temps higher than cpu temps?
Because Sense Skew is not a fixed offset but a function. At one point socket temps keep increasing faster than Tctl because of the skewing. What Sense Skew effectively does is to keep Tctl from ever reaching its true maximum, and the higher the true temps get the more Sense Skew (at default settings) pushes them down.
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