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post #42831 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 12:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Tinkering was no problem, still reviving a dead horse 6401 and keeping everything except the whole AGESA package up to date on it
I ask for a mate who struggles with Dual Rank 16GB B-die Dimms
Well let's not call it struggle, but the poor IMC of the 1700X having to use 68.6 Proc with 240Ω RTT_Park , it already causes such a high strain for the IMC and is hard keeping CL14 up
I ask, because we'd need those basic memory interleaving settings (going down to 256 is much better then 512 for DR Dimms) and still peaking above 74ns in latency e_e
Overall asking, as some new AGESA would do well in terms of possible memory OC, up to 1.0.0.2 and futureproof him for the 3rd gen (when it's delivered)
^ instead of updating the old 1.0.0.6 ^^#
I know its somewhat different, but as I noted I run 4 Single Rank 8GB dimms, and its definitely a challenge to get above 2933Mhz on 1st Gen Parts with all 32GB. I imagine its pretty close to the strain that 2 Dual Ranked DIMM's would suffer. I had a 1600x, and it took me forever to get all 32GB to Post at 3200Mhz CL14, but I was able to eventually do it with 53.3 ProcODT and whatever the Auto RTT_Park setting was with the UEFI I was running at the time. Obviously the Memory Controllers on 1st gen parts were really semi-hit or completely Miss. I would definitely take a look, because AMD-CBS Menu is there, and there are definitely some Memory Training Related Settings in there that are still exposed. Its definitely worth taking a look for him and seeing. I don't have a 1st Gen Part to through in my C6H to test any more, but if its exposed on my 2700x, then it probably will be on his 1700x. I'll get a screenshot for you in the morning if you want it.

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post #42832 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 01:21 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by psychohawk View Post
I have recently upgraded a couple things, first was the cpu from 1700x to 3700x, then from an rx 590 to a rtx 2070. The biggest limiting factors had previously been the memory compatibility and the gpu bottleneck from the rx 590. I hadn't realized just how much of a bottleneck the gpu really was. There was virtually no change in gaming benchmarks at all, but I could run the Gskill Trident z Dual Rank Double Sided Samsung D-die 3200 kits I've had running at 2800 for the past 18 months, at and above the advertised 3200 CL 16 but only as far as 3333 before it capped on me.
Point is, I got curious to see how well the 1700x could keep the gpu fed so I popped it back into my C6H with bios 7306 and was able to run the ram at 3200 advertised speeds with the 1700x and scored a few thousand points behind the 3700x I own, in Fire Strike.
On 1st gen i notice 2 quite annoying things - i wish it's coincidence but i don't like that it's indeed replicable on my side
Comparing Pstate OC (on allcore) - to basic Allcore
XFR overrid Pstate with cool'n quiet leads actually better latency on L2 and L3 cache ...
While it looks like normal allcore does suffer from (magically inserted) cache latency = lower ipc on it's own
On both examples L2 and L3 bandwith actually behave fully differently (not a CH6 thing) and Zenstates overriding Perf Bias mode does across all boards on gen 1 quite some IPC difference x_x
I noticed it by accident, as there was something fishy about people's PState OC always behaving better then normal allcore OC

While after time looking on this, i think it can be related to silicon stability on the same clock with the same voltage and the board behaving different to forced Zen State P-States and voltage overridings
i certainly see some difference in access time and "usable bandwith" comparing constant allcore , and PState dropping allcore (from 3.8 for example to down to 1.6Ghz)
^ both replicable on every gen 1 and gen 2 / while the determission slider rule (aida64/cb15) mode does overall lower both latencys on gen 1 by at least 1ns (L2&L3) , but not fully tested till the end barely does any change on gen 2

@elmor - could you lead some shine in that dark rabbit hole of what the actual "CB15/Aida64" Perf Bias mode changes, if it's possible to integrate that into bioses as a switch mode (just what, and where it does change what) and what is different from Determission Slider Perf/Power to Perf Bias profiles ?
Using it and comparing both gen 1 & 2 clock by clock, latency to latency - they appear equal
While The Stilt's OC3 on 4.3 P-State/PBO compared to Allcore again on the same clock, the XFR/P-State OC again is faster then the same clock allcore (in single threaded L2 & L3 cache testing)

Overall TL;DR:
Ignoring higher sillicon stability for higher potential OC and ignoring maybe the override of LLC between boards by using this method:
> Why does XFR P-State OC (without ZenStates just by AMD CBS) lead to better cache access time and higher higher bandwith (margin of error ?)
> What's up with this Performance Bias profiles on ZenState, why is there such a big difference in actuall Perf with and without it ?

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post #42833 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 01:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Do you know if CBS and PBS is fully unlocked on that 0002 bios ?
We have to stays at 6401 mod for a 1700x because of the missing settings
(made by 1umus + manual PMU,GOP,remain EFI parts & Microcode Updates)

Tried out 7403+ , but there is no CBS menu
It misses settings for RAM and Pstate overclocking~

Quote: Originally Posted by Kildar View Post
Yeas it would be nice if that was opened back up!
If I have time today I will view UEFI. If it is a case if the options have been "suppressed" then minimal changes get them back. If they are not there at all, it becomes a whole different ball game, which I lost at last time.

I wanted a menu which existed on SP3r2 for Zen core, but not on AM4 with Zen core. You can see from Gigabyte rep Matt's post even vendors may not be able to tinker with AMD menus.

Quote:
Anything under "AMD CBS" and "AMD Overclocking" is a black box. We can hide/unhide functions. We cannot change the values, reword the menus, etc. This is all apart of the AGESA. This is why you see FCLK Under "AMD CBS" and Infinity fabric dividers under "AMD Overclocking". So the questions I have seen multiple times (IE Why is it listed in 2 places? Which takes precedent?) are questions we cannot answer any better than you. We can do various A-B testing and try to decern answers, but we cannot give you the actual answer, just the observed effects.
Source post link.

Quote: Originally Posted by CeltPC View Post
Thanks so much, I'll give CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO-ASUS-0002+.CAP a try today!

Quote: Originally Posted by CeltPC View Post
I flashed to CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO-ASUS-0002+.CAP. So far so good. I have not tried any CPU overclocking, just bumped the memory to 3600 CAS 16, and undervolted the CPU to 1.35 volts manually set, and the SOC to 1.1. Interestingly this did give me a bit better Cinebench 20 multi-core score of 7143, compared to a previous 7109. I am also seeing some core frequency increases at idle with 4 cores hitting a max of 4575.1 GHz, again a new best.

Single core Cinebench 20 I am seeing 4475 on some cores, with a score of 508.

Thanks for the great work.
NP, thanks for feedback .

Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
As someone who used that and is in possession about it
> Is the AMD CBS Menu on your side unlocked (3rd gen - or lower) on any of the two 0002 UEFIs ?
> Except the SMU mod, is there any difference to gupsterg's mod compared to the Shamino's posting above ?
> Have you tried to actually use Zenstates on gen 3 - do you see any possibility to do P-State OC in any of both bioses ?

Sorry for the amount of questions - last one:
> About Chipset interleaving and PMU training algorithms - do those Bioses offer them somewhere, anywhere in the Bios ?
i do wonder for what reason people should flash them (1st to 3rd gen), except if they struggle from the dropping PWM issue above
I currently don't have a 1xxx/2xxx CPU to use on AM4, 3xxx defo has more complete AMD CBS & AMD Overclocking Menu on later UEFIs, may that me "Official" or Beta.

I posted before and will say again. I make no changes except overwrite SMU FW module v46.40.00 with v46.34.00. There are 3 modules, duplicated twice, so six times I overwrite the SMU FW. Two of the modules are exactly the same size, so four pastes are just that. One module, the older FW is smaller, so I paste it and the left over data is sanitised by overwriting with FFh, this is done twice. I add a "+" to a module where it will display UEFI version with that in OS/APPs, it will not appear on POST screen string or UEFI screen.

I don't use OS OC SW, I may try it at times, I prefer always to do think via UEFI/BIOS. I can do PState 0 OC via UEFI, AMD only expose that in AMD CBS > CPU Common Options.

PMU menu is in UMC Common Options > DDR4 Common Options > PMU Training Menu. Only non 3xxx system I have see this on is Threadripper. I have it with 1950X on ZE and ZEA. I did a thread paging Robert Hallock on r/AMD, highlighting AMD need to make this feature available on AM4 1xxx/2xxx. AMD can not say it is just a 3xxx core feature as I have it on 1xxx CPU, but SP3r2 socket and it does work on SP3r2. This was the feature I tried to mod to AM4 while back and I could make text appear, but the programming to make menu function is not there unless AMD place it in UEFI AFAIK.
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post #42834 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 01:27 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
I know its somewhat different, but as I noted I run 4 Single Rank 8GB dimms, and its definitely a challenge to get above 2933Mhz on 1st Gen Parts with all 32GB. I imagine its pretty close to the strain that 2 Dual Ranked DIMM's would suffer. I had a 1600x, and it took me forever to get all 32GB to Post at 3200Mhz CL14, but I was able to eventually do it with 53.3 ProcODT and whatever the Auto RTT_Park setting was with the UEFI I was running at the time. Obviously the Memory Controllers on 1st gen parts were really semi-hit or completely Miss. I would definitely take a look, because AMD-CBS Menu is there, and there are definitely some Memory Training Related Settings in there that are still exposed. Its definitely worth taking a look for him and seeing. I don't have a 1st Gen Part to through in my C6H to test any more, but if its exposed on my 2700x, then it probably will be on his 1700x.
I'll get a screenshot for you in the morning if you want it.
^ yes please check it, it's more of a lazyness thing right now , having to reset all the settings and fix the bug 6401 has with too many IF changes at once
If i can see the content of AMD CBS - soo maybe even seeing Zen Common Options or DF (for chipset interleaving settings) - it would be enough to motivate that guy to actually upgrade to 1.0.0.2 :'D

I feel you tho, been extremely surprised to see how well SR B-dies can run on a (i pretty much think) sillicon lottery won 1950x
While seeing how harsh DR dimms are for the IMC on consumer ryzen ^^
Hynix-MFR been b*chy enough already, but DR dimms takes that to another level ^^#
Already using the latest PMU patches, but eh 6401 on 1.0.0.6 /0.0.7.2 or a well working 1.0.0.2 - i rly would pick the 1.0.0.2 , if it has all the CBS settings that are needed for both PState and Memory OC e_e

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Last edited by Veii; 08-28-2019 at 01:35 AM.
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post #42835 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 01:34 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post
I currently don't have a 1xxx/2xxx CPU to use on AM4, 3xxx defo has more complete AMD CBS & AMD Overclocking Menu on later UEFIs, may that me "Official" or Beta.

I posted before and will say again. I make no changes except overwrite SMU FW module v46.40.00 with v46.34.00. There are 3 modules, duplicated twice, so six times I overwrite the SMU FW. Two of the modules are exactly the same size, so four pastes are just that. One module, the older FW is smaller, so I paste it and the left over data is sanitised by overwriting with FFh, this is done twice. I add a "+" to a module where it will display UEFI version with that in OS/APPs, it will not appear on POST screen string or UEFI screen.

I don't use OS OC SW, I may try it at times, I prefer always to do think via UEFI/BIOS. I can do PState 0 OC via UEFI, AMD only expose that in AMD CBS > CPU Common Options.

PMU menu is in UMC Common Options > DDR4 Common Options > PMU Training Menu. Only non 3xxx system I have see this on is Threadripper. I have it with 1950X on ZE and ZEA. I did a thread paging Robert Hallock on r/AMD, highlighting AMD need to make this feature available on AM4 1xxx/2xxx. AMD can not say it is just a 3xxx core feature as I have it on 1xxx CPU, but SP3r2 socket and it does work on SP3r2. This was the feature I tried to mod to AM4 while back and I could make text appear, but the programming to make menu function is not there unless AMD place it in UEFI AFAIK.
Thank you again, i read that you changed it and how - but i didn't find any information on 0002 or 0002+ at all :/
I've seen it recently on ASRock boards with the latest 1.0.0.3 updates (starting from single A only) but i tought this AMD Overclocking menu - was just duplicated bios maker mistake of two close to identical AMD CBS on the same board
Saddly asrock actually does lock their bioses (well the boards to be more clear - soo wip here)

But - this is the other board except the CH series that feature this feature, except from TR4 boards
Quote: Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post
This was the feature I tried to mod to AM4 while back and I could make text appear, but the programming to make menu function is not there unless AMD place it in UEFI AFAIK.
Yes i followed that, did you succeed in getting it to work - or just appear there , before we got gen 3 cpus ?
Oh before i forget , the shared

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Last edited by Veii; 08-28-2019 at 01:48 AM.
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post #42836 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 01:56 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Thank you a again, i read that you changed it and how - but i didn't find any information on 0002 or 0002+ at all :/
I've seen it recently on ASRock boards with the latest 1.0.0.3 updates (starting from single A only) but i tought this AMD Overclocking menu - was just duplicated bios maker mistake of two close to identical AMD CBS on the same board
Saddly asrock actually does lock their bioses (well the boards to be more clear - soo wip here)

But - this is the other board except the CH series that feature this feature, except from TR4 boards
0002 is supposed to have ASUS WMI fixed, when "we" moved to ComboPi-AM4 it would seem ASUS WMI became broken. So 0002+ is that just with SMU FW 46.34.00.

0002 on C7H is newer compile date that latest "official" 2703, I have not looked at C6H 7403 for date, it may also be the case, I will check if I find time today.

AMD Overclocking has another function as well. Any setting in there will not reset to default when board does fail safe post when "recovery" occurs. AMD CBS settings will reset like they always have.

For example on UEFI 2601 onwards on C7H "recovery" works, I do a bad OC profile, board attempt train-up, it goes Q-Code: F9, it will try upto 3 times to post, if it can't then it will use fail safe settings. When I enter UEFI any setting under AMD CBS will be reset to default, any setting under AMD Overclocking menu will be there (like ASUS FW menus), when I save & exit it will apply.

Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Yes i followed that, did you succeed in getting it to work - or just appear there , before we got gen 3 cpus ?
I can make the menu appear. I edited the actual module for AM4 UEFI rather than transplant it from SP3r2 UEFI. AFAIK, the way the menus works for UEFI, you have GUI/text, then the "variable" are in a "store" and called. If the "store" has no variable I can not call it from the "text" menu.

Even to get the text in menu was a lot of work. Editing the store is not possible IMO. I even did thread on Win RAID forum and there was no one able to share how to make this happen....

Last edited by gupsterg; 08-28-2019 at 02:00 AM.
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post #42837 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 02:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post
0002 is supposed to have ASUS WMI fixed, when "we" moved to ComboPi-AM4 it would seem ASUS WMI became broken. So 0002+ is that just with SMU FW 46.34.00.
0002 on C7H is newer compile date that latest "official" 2703, I have not looked at C6H 7403 for date, it may also be the case, I will check if I find time today.
Thank you
Quote: Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post
AMD Overclocking has another function as well. Any setting in there will not reset to default when board does fail safe post when "recovery" occurs. AMD CBS settings will reset like they always have.
Interesting
Good to know - is it resettable by manual CMOS or does it need a flashback reflash, as der8auer (roman) suggested ?
Quote: Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post
Even to get the text in menu was a lot of work. Editing the store is not possible IMO. I even did thread on Win RAID forum and there was no one able to share how to make this happen....
Hmmm yes i followed that too ~ happy you found about SMU
Does SMU affect PBO or is it an internal boosting algorithm change & PBO goes ontop of that ?
I do wonder if "we" / you! - actually brought back what was optimal in 1.0.0.2 (diff boost across every model), or could read out how SMU behaves, change it and with this SMU FW actually increase the higher limits? amd set ?
Thinking about how a 3600X for example will scale, as i see the "unified ecosystem" as AMD describes, boosts clock by applied voltage range and not by temp in the first place ?

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Last edited by Veii; 08-28-2019 at 02:33 AM. Reason: Edit for better grammar
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post #42838 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 03:07 AM
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Hi *,

Just a lil' update before doing more extensive testing tonight.

I was able to grab the 002 on ROG Forum version but overlooked the 002+ so I'll reflash a redo my testing.

C6H + 3900X + 32GB E-Die dual rank. The 002 version seems to restore the "promised" boost behavior in the sense that max core is now 4575 (up from 4519), and slowest core is now 4350 (up from 42XX).

[email protected] & RAM in 1:1 (so up to 3866c17 from 3000c15).

Everything was somewhat stable except that it seems my GPU ram overclock was giving me micro freezes... (1070 ti ram + 740 mhz) I initially though it was CPU related but nope. GPU ram speed stays the same even on idle.

Strange point:

PPT has literally ZERO effect... Ryzen Master can't read the value. Though EDC has some effect, so I lowered it to 110 from 140... Will crosscheck that with the 002+ version. Right now the most effective way to redude consumption is to reduce voltage by offset, but it seems to affect max SC boost frequency...

Thank you very much for all this work, remembers me adding nvme drivers in z87 bios... Unfortunately I lost track of all this bios edit fun...

PS. My goal is to get higher frequencies in SC & low workload while keeping consumption low. Loosing perf on all core high workload is in my case acceptable... Aka "i watch youtube & game more than encode".

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post #42839 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 03:11 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
No Problem.

Here is the 0002 for the Crosshair VI Hero Posted By Shamino:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/07r6kxnqdz...-0002.CAP?dl=0

And Here is the 0002+ Uefi for the Crosshair VI Hero, that is the 0002 UEFI posted by Shamino, with the Mods made by @gupsterg that added the Boost Behavior from Agesa 1002. I prefer this one because you get the best boost Behavior and the Fans Fixed, but its up to you which one you would prefer. Here is the One from @gupsterg :
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U4...HOoGicKzrvag0s
Thanks man, first time i experienced overheating problems with fans/pump shutting down today, first i thought my pump died but then i saw that multiple people had the same issue.
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post #42840 of 43389 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 04:01 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Thank you
No problem .

Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Interesting
Good to know - is it resettable by manual CMOS or does it need a flashback reflash, as der8auer (roman) suggested ?
I rarely do CMOS CLEAR so can not say, would assume it does.

I pretty much always apply UEFI using flashback, it will clear then.

It will also clear if I load say a base profile saved in ASUS User Profile menu, but if I load a CMO file it does not seem to contain the parameters, as I need to manually set any settings I may change in AMD Overclocking.

I have not seen der8auer video, can you link this, been busy and would save me time to look, thank you.

Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Hmmm yes i followed that too ~ happy you found about SMU
Does SMU affect PBO or is it an internal boosting algorithm change & PBO goes ontop of that ?
I do wonder if "we" / you! - actually brought back what was optimal in 1.0.0.2 (diff boost across every model), or could read out how SMU behaves, change it and with this SMU FW actually increase the higher limits? amd set ?
Thinking about how a 3600X for example will scale, as i see the "unified ecosystem" as AMD describes, boosts clock by applied voltage range and not by temp in the first place ?
1xxx series had Precision Boost (1) & Extended Frequency Range.

Spoiler!


2xxx/3xxx IMO only has Precision Boost 2 only, AMD seem to wanna say this:-

Quote:
Precision Boost 2 also works in conjunction with XFR2 (eXtreme Frequency Range) which reacts to additional thermal headroom.
Ref the triangle in 2 slides below.

Spoiler!


Also check the headings Precision Boost and Precision Boost 2 here.

The SMU is the "puppet master" for 1xxx, 2xxx and 3xxx. The SMU profiles CPU for it's unique silicon characteristics, CPUs voltage for frequency it will determine and control. The SMU FW would contain parameters for this profiling and influence boost. I believe we can not extract and change the FW, it is more than likely encrypted, if we could change FW it would need to pass authentication by PSP, which more than likely we wouldn't be able to apply. Only public tool I have seen is this.

I believe boost is also based on temp as well as voltage.

I'm just about to share my data for a user on ROG forum, see the reply I do to this post over there, seems there can be big difference between like CPUs.

Last edited by gupsterg; 08-28-2019 at 04:05 AM.
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