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post #6151 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

1. Whoever designed the physical layout of the board seemingly never intended ProbeIt and the post code display to be used by normal people.
- When the CH6 is built into a PC chassis and placed under the table I literally have to lie down on the floor to read post codes. There is no other way for me to get a proper viewing angle to that uppermost rightmost corner. Even when I place the chassis on a table I have to bend forwards to get a look at the post codes.
- It took me over a dozen tries to get any readings from ProbeIt, because I first had to scratch into the probing points with the probe tips to get electrical contact. Maybe there is some kind of coating on top of them that needs to be poked through, maybe it's the solder itself.
4. A "Safe Boot" button should do just that: Safe Boot. More often than not it just results in another failed reset attempt. If it doesn't work properly then it's space wasted that would have better been used to for the post code display.

I agree with many of your points and I think all of your feedback is reasonable. I've been messing with mine on a benchtop until I'm satisfied that it's stable enough to replace the computer it's intended to replace. I can't imagine being able to see the POST codes inside of a case with a top rad.

I definitely have seen the problem you're having with the DMM points. They had some sort of coating on them but they read more reliably after using them a bunch. Again I can't imagine trying to use these inside of a case.

I've seen the Safe Boot issues as well. I was trying to reduce my SOC voltage and went too low - and safe boot didn't even come close to helping. I had to clear CMOS to get the system back. To go with that my OC profile wouldn't load afterward either (it would freeze the system) so I ended up having to regenerate all of my settings.

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post #6152 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

5. If you place a new internal USB 3.1 header on your boards then provide a corresponding cable/front-bay connector.D

The USB 3.1 plug will accompany a case that provides such a port. If you're talking about USB 3.0, the connector is at the bottom of the motherboard. Asus did nothing wrong, I think you're just misunderstanding.
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post #6153 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by finalheaven View Post

Vdroop is normal and I believe they built it in on purpose. Using LLC introduces voltage spikes. So while you measured about how much the voltage appears to increase, you probably didn't measure how much more it increases with the spikes.

Appreciate the feedback. I think I'll spend some time trying to reduce LLC now that I know the limits of my chip. You're absolutely right that there's no way to see what sort of overshoot exists from a DMM which does some pretty low rate averaging (and reads RMS to go with it). I'd need a scope with decent bandwidth to see what Asus is really up to with their LLC implementation. Their VRMs run at a relatively low switching frequency (using doublers) so LLC could result in some substantial spikes. What we also don't know is how much capacitance is on-chip and how much of those spikes actually get into the device.

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post #6154 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by hughjazz44 View Post

The USB 3.1 plug will accompany a case that provides such a port. If you're talking about USB 3.0, the connector is at the bottom of the motherboard. Asus did nothing wrong, I think you're just misunderstanding.
Yes, and there is exactly one case vendor that optionally (as in costs extra) provides that part (Lian Li), but only for their most current cases. So we all go and buy new cases now just to populate the USB 3.1 header?
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post #6155 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by hughjazz44 View Post

The USB 3.1 plug will accompany a case that provides such a port. If you're talking about USB 3.0, the connector is at the bottom of the motherboard. Asus did nothing wrong, I think you're just misunderstanding.

Very few cases currently include 3.1 plugs. It would be nice if Asus included an expansion bracket with a port on it - especially since the front panel 3.1 port is the one from the X370 chip and the rear panel one is from a third party chip. I'd prefer to use the X370 port if I needed 3.1 support. "Back in the day" premium motherboards used to include all sorts of expansion brackets for USB ports and serial ports and the rest so I really agree with Timur on this one.

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post #6156 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:43 AM
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Here's a tool to check the load-line configuration currently used: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ag6oE4SOsCmDhGRdxTxyFtlsR7-K

PW: "Loadline" (without the quatation marks).

Extract and open a new command window to the same folder (unselect items, shift + right mouse) and type ASP1405ILL.

Make sure you don't have any other monitoring software (AISuite, HWInfo, etc) running.

Works for PRIME X370-PRO as well.
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post #6157 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:48 AM
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Curiosity got the best of me and since the EK monoblock isn't available yet, I snatched a Radeon 6950 out of an old desktop we had and tossed the heap together. The motherboard was purchased form Newegg earlier this week and arrived with BIOS 0902. RAM is Trident RGB 3200 (F4-3200C14-8GTZR). Boot drive is a Samsung 960 Evo. After the initial power on, I familiarized myself with the BIOS (my first Asus) and proceeded to flash 1001. Rebooted, disabled SenseMi Skew, tossed my USB drive with W10 in it, and everything booted up and installed as expected. I haven't clocked anything or ran any tests but that was seriously the most trouble free build I've ever had; I literally didn't have to do anything (almost always end up with something wonky). Time to start pushing the RAM and create problems...

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post #6158 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

...
ProbeIt can hardly be reached at all. Even outside a chassis the power connector + cable gets in your way. Inside a chassis it a small nightmare to reach it with two DMM probes.

- It took me over a dozen tries to get any readings from ProbeIt, because I first had to scratch into the probing points on the pads with the probe tips to get electrical contact. Maybe there is some kind of coating on top of them that needs to be poked through, maybe it's the solder itself.

- Now that I can get readings I always have to use both my hands to push the probes on the measuring points. Why can Asus not invest 5-10 cents into a proper header where we can stick the probes in and leave them there hands-free?!

Beyond all the other good points made by Timur Born, I consider the Probeit contact issue to require, at a minimum, posts such that Pomona Grabber style test clips or equivalent can latch on safely. I get the impression that the board designer had a requirement to bring out voltages to the board edge, but wasn't familiar with the realities of actual testing. (The alternative theory is that the designer has more than two arms and can perform tests while holding two probes.)

Rig running Ryzen [email protected] GHz, [email protected] MT/s, Linux Mint 18.1 on Asus C6H
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post #6159 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

Yes, and there is exactly one case vendor that optionally (as in costs extra) provides that part (Lian Li), but only for their most current cases. So we all go and buy new cases now just to populate the USB 3.1 header?

Nanoxia Project S cases provide a cable and 3.1 connector to the front panel.

Edit: However, now that I have my C6H it is evident that this cable goes to the exterior rear I/O zone USB 3.1 connector, and does not fit the internal Asus C6H header.

Rig running Ryzen [email protected] GHz, [email protected] MT/s, Linux Mint 18.1 on Asus C6H
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post #6160 of 40612 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

Yes, and there is exactly one case vendor that optionally (as in costs extra) provides that part (Lian Li), but only for their most current cases. So we all go and buy new cases now just to populate the USB 3.1 header?

Short answer: Yes. Go buy a new case.

Long answer: Most cases nowadays don't even have front bays (5-1/4" or 3-1/2") so where would you even put the bracket if Asus provided one? And just because you have a USB 3.1 header on the motherboard doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. Are you using all 8 SATA ports? They're provided, so we MUST use them!
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