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post #8671 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

Shouldn't a fast sampling DMM measuring at the socket also be able to catch these spikes? I'll give it a try with my Fluke 289, have to check its spec for sample rate again.

It should yea but oscilloscopes are unbelievably fast and they can record a graph a dmm can't. You won't see minute changes either but those dont matter.
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post #8672 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:52 AM
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Just for reference, how much of a load change triggered this capture? Is this a 100% -> near idle situation or something lighter?

That's a 100% load heading towards CPU idle. Lesser loads would still see the 1.45V being applied, but may not see as "large" a spike when it is released.

You have two issues here; the first is the fact the VRM has to ramp voltage when any load transient hits. Granted, the VRM is over-engineered and can take a bruising, it's just kinder not to do it if you don't need to. And to be honest, in the 24-7 usage model, we don't. Given the architecture's inherent limitations, caution isn't strictly required. One should be mindful that most loads are sub-150W given how limited these CPUs are for overclocking headroom - not exactly a scintillating amount of current.

Perhaps the more pressing issue from a user perspective is that LLC level's 3~5 result in 30~70mv excursions past what some users "think" they have set. But this is always the case with LLC.

If I expected the system to last for a number of years, I'd always take the complimentary option. If there were something to be gained by using higher LLC levels, one would advise accordingly. There isn't, so it makes sense to advise lower values.

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post #8673 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:52 AM
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I could play about with LL2 since im on LL3. But i need to keep 1.42x under full load or nogo tongue.gif. I know one thing Auto does not Cut it :/
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post #8674 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:53 AM
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Gotta be rebellious! but yea this is why I said before i'll stay away from LLC5. Monitoring software cant poll fast enough to see the spikes an oscilloscope can show you, but I guess even LLC3 is in the danger zone a bit as well.

Though, my 4ghz voltage idle maxes as I can see at 1.356v, so will LLC3 spike get to a dangerous level with that?

The ringing itself may be a little damaging in the long run, but I'd say anything lower than 1.4v under load on the SVI2 should be "safe" up to LLC5. Over that the lifetime will probably look like running on 1.45v+ on LLC0~2. Running on 1.45v on LLC5 is very likely shortening the life of the CPU considerably.

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post #8675 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:53 AM
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It should yea but oscilloscopes are unbelievably fast and they can record a graph a dmm can't. You won't see minute changes either but those dont matter.
The 289 can record a graph. wink.gif
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post #8676 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:55 AM
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On a side note: I wondered if AMD meant voltage after droop when I claimed that most CPU should hit 4.1 - 4.2 GHz at 1.45 V. So I upped my Vcore to get 1.45 V under full load, but still couldn't get 4.1 GHz stable, even less so 4.2 Ghz. Both booted and were usable, but not stable.
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post #8677 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:56 AM
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Try bclk overclock. I'm running my 3000 MHz kit at 3200 with 120 bclk :-D I'd just rather use multiplier

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post #8678 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:57 AM
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I could play about with LL2 since im on LL3. But i need to keep 1.42x under full load or nogo tongue.gif. I know one thing Auto does not Cut it :/

This is where elementary understanding of LLC helps. You just need to set the correct VID to get the required load voltage. Nothing else to it, really.

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post #8679 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:57 AM
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G.Skill F4-4000C18D-16GTZSW just arrived. Let's make sure that all those instabilities at 3600-CL16 were not just down to my 3200-CL14 dimms not making it that far. wink.gif
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post #8680 of 40620 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by r4m0n View Post

The ringing itself may be a little damaging in the long run, but I'd say anything lower than 1.4v under load on the SVI2 should be "safe" up to LLC5. Over that the lifetime will probably look like running on 1.45v+ on LLC0~2. Running on 1.45v on LLC5 is very likely shortening the life of the CPU considerably.

Ringing?

Don't forget to ground yourself smile.gif

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