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post #7371 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 09:47 PM
Stock is too casual~
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by thomasck View Post
What I mean by same scores is the following. If I leave cpu completely auto, pbo/xfr disableb in both menus, I get around 1.36V under load. CPU will boost to 4500~4575 frequently while browsing, youtube and stuff, and here and there will boost to 4600 too, but not that often. When benching I'll score around 7200 in cb20 and around 3190 in cb15, that's due to the cpu breaching 70C, and sustaining 70+> it throttles down the clock to around 4075~4100 and stays like that.
When I apply a more aggressive offset (bios comes with offset enabled and on AUTO) of -0.1 straight, it gives me ~1.296V under load, I do score the same, or even more some times, cause the cpu won't breach 70C quickly, keeping around 4100-4200 for longer, hence higher scores sometimes (depends on how hot the loop already is). But I don't see any clocks reaching 4500mhz (only 4450ish) whatsoever while youtubing etc. So clock speed is down to maintain the cpu below 70C, which is not possible in my case, I already cooling it and the gpu with 3x360. Would I benefit from pushing forward the vcore hence the fit is "1.36"? No, I won't, thermals will not allow, unless I keep my window opened. I got close to 1.35V before testing this and thermal it's a wall. I'll yes, see more boosting but when under load it will breach 70C and clocks will be drastically reduced, and performance will same, or slightly worse comparing with -0.1 offset.

And yes, it allowed to just downgrade using the tool in the bios, like always, no change about that. actually I've never used a flashing tool.
Oh yes i see
What you can do is get that high SOC away, with the new bios
Likely you do have clock stretching with such low offset - and the offset works together with the new updated FIT module Firmware
Defaulting to this offset is the optimal one, changing it will mess up the boosting table and cause clock stretching
Although "optimal offset" is different each big bios update and AGESA update
See this is pre-release AGESA update

Your resolve would be two things:
Get that voltage under control,
VDDP 900mV, VDDG 950mV, vSOC starting from 1.0 never lower also not lower with LLC
optimaly 75mV higher than VDDG where 50mV higher is the minimum
Required vSOC is 1.05v till 3600MT/s,
or around 1.068-1.075 for 3800MT/s,
3900MT/s or FCLK 1950 would be near 1.089v SOC or closer to 1.1v with LLC with VDDG of 1v resulting in minium vSOC of 1.050-1.075 (never lower than this range)

That is one way to gain 50W TDP, for example the 3950X does use now 180W under AVX2 and 210W under SSE/AVX with vSOC at 1.028v (50W for 50mV less)
Your next option is to follow polkfan's Reddit Guide in using PBO to limit current and gain better boosting
he made a reddit post and we discussed it i think near page 702-708, quite some time ago
The picture for orientation was SuperSmashBros-Brawl on an vulkan emulator, around that page +/-1 page

That might hurt multi-core range a bit, but will boost better for games
Also enabling/re-enabling CPPC from the bios with wiped Ryzen Master, does lower powerdraw because cores actually do sleep
(use 1usmus's powerplan for that)

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post #7372 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 09:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by thomasck View Post
@Veii

Memory settings are the one we did together, a time ago, I still using it,

Spoiler!



What I mean by same scores is the following. If I leave cpu completely auto, pbo/xfr disableb in both menus, I get around 1.36V under load. CPU will boost to 4500~4575 frequently while browsing, youtube and stuff, and here and there will boost to 4600 too, but not that often. When benching I'll score around 7200 in cb20 and around 3190 in cb15, that's due to the cpu breaching 70C, and sustaining 70+> it throttles down the clock to around 4075~4100 and stays like that.
When I apply a more aggressive offset (bios comes with offset enabled and on AUTO) of -0.1 straight, it gives me ~1.296V under load, I do score the same, or even more some times, cause the cpu won't breach 70C quickly, keeping around 4100-4200 for longer, hence higher scores sometimes (depends on how hot the loop already is). But I don't see any clocks reaching 4500mhz (only 4450ish) whatsoever while youtubing etc. So clock speed is down to maintain the cpu below 70C, which is not possible in my case, I already cooling it and the gpu with 3x360. Would I benefit from pushing forward the vcore hence the fit is "1.36"? No, I won't, thermals will not allow, unless I keep my window opened. I got close to 1.35V before testing this and thermal it's a wall. I'll yes, see more boosting but when under load it will breach 70C and clocks will be drastically reduced, and performance will same, or slightly worse comparing with -0.1 offset.

And yes, it allowed to just downgrade using the tool in the bios, like always, no change about that. actually I've never used a flashing tool.
Hey man just for kicks can you run this boosttester software for like 5min and close all your apps in the background except hwmonitor and see the max effective clock for each core and give me a pic i would really love to gather some results from 3900X+X370 Taichi owners also if its not to much trouble 62A would be nice as well as its better for ST turbo's.



Also others if you want to buy a 3700X in a month or so PM if not i'll just keep mine around in the box for awhile like i did with my 2700X before i gave it away i'll give a nice deal! I see them going for like 270$ or so used and i find that crazy and for sure not worth it used or with Zen 3 coming. Getting some new toys to play with and could always use the extra $$$.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Boosttester.zip (6.3 KB, 5 views)

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post #7373 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 09:57 PM
Stock is too casual~
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by polkfan View Post
Also others if you want to buy a 3700X in a month or so PM if not i'll just keep mine around in the box for awhile like i did with my 2700X before i gave it away i'll give a nice deal! I see them going for like 270$ or so used and i find that crazy and for sure not worth it used or with Zen 3 coming. Getting some new toys to play with and could always use the extra $$$.
I'm interested in an 8core APU, because of the need of a 2nd GPU to render
But might consider this, if i get the money together till then
Where are you located ? ~ depends on the region and time (global shipping lockdown for still 6-9 weeks)

Would be a good replacement from the dead 1700X i have here as lapped looking at me, trophy

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post #7374 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 10:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
I'm interested in an 8core APU, because of the need of a 2nd GPU to render
But might consider this, if i get the money together till then
Where are you located ? ~ depends on the region and time (global shipping lockdown for still 6-9 weeks)

Would be a good replacement from the dead 1700X i have here as lapped looking at me, trophy
Michigan USA

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post #7375 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 10:08 PM
Stock is too casual~
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by polkfan View Post
Michigan USA
That would make a shipping cost of 30$ and get 20% taxed here
Good to know at least
I hope someone can be happy with your good IMC chip

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post #7376 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 10:24 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
That would make a shipping cost of 30$ and get 20% taxed here
Good to know at least
I hope someone can be happy with your good IMC chip
Man those taxes

True i guess i can show a screenshot i would rather have someone who likes to get that 1900FCLK and is a enthusiast buy it for some reason that's why i gave my 2700X away to my friend at the time i never had time to play with it and ALWAYS ran it at stock except memory and i could easily do 3466mhz but with 14cas timings but GDM had to be on same memory that i have now too.

To be fair i didn't tweak it much i was having some personal issues and such now i have TONS of time haha


Edit wow just doing normal desktop stuff listening to music and what not and for sure now all my cores in VID reach 1.5V before it was around 1.488-1.494V. 1.488V vcore max and the VRM's are reporting 1.48V as max voltage to the CPU. Little higher then before(1.472V)

Hey Veii sorry about not adding you on the friends list i actually just now noticed it was going to update my sig with my new headphones and saw that.

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post #7377 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 04:19 AM
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@Veii

I'm going to try 6.20A and will apply your suggestions. There's two VDDG, the value you meant is for both? Or the only one VDDG from XFR Enhancement? Also, SoC, is VDDCR from OC Tweaker, SOC Voltage (VID) from main OC Tweaker, or SOC Overclock VID from XFR Enhancement? Just to make things 100% clear before testing. I don't even know what the others SoC would do besides VDDCR_SoC.
One more thing, LLC on 6.20A is AUTO, keep like that while testing?

@polkfan I will run that mate, no problem, but on 6.20A. Let's see if I can boot it with old ram settings.

EDIT

Funny thing, 1st time I upgraded from 6.20 to 6.20A all profiles were gone. Now that I flashed 6.20A the profiles are there, strange.

PBO off in all menus, amd overclocking and from XFR
CPU full auto stock llc auto which is llc5, apparently
FCLK 1867
RAM stock MCLK 1200 1.35V
VDDP/VDDG set to 0.9 and 0.950 and VDDCR_SoC 1.075 in bios.

Got into windows, HWiNFO reads,
VDDP 0.928
VDDG NO SENSOR
VDDCR_SoC 1.088
SoC Voltage (SVI2 TFN) 1.075

RM reads
VDDRCR_SoC 1.2
VDDP 0.900
VDDG 0.950

Benchs
cb20
vcore 1.328
CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) 1.287
max temp 75.6
score 7148

cb15
vcore 1.328
CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) 1.287
max temp 75.6
score 3179

Linpackx two runs
vcore 1.360
CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) 1.331/1.337
max temp 57.1 with a really fast peak of 83

Then, went back to bios, set ram 1687 and timings, no change in voltages, soc and got to windows.

HWiNFO reads,
VDDP 0.928
VDDG NO SENSOR
VDDCR_SoC 1.088
SoC Voltage (SVI2 TFN) 1.075

RM reads
VDDRCR_SoC 1.2
VDDP 1.09
VDDG 1.09

@polkfan this was on 6.20A with fclk 1687 pbo off, all rest as it came with the bios, auto llc (looks like is equal to 5) as it comes too.

Spoiler!


EDIT 2

Back to bios, changed vddp and vggd in xfr menu to auto, and applied those settings to OC Tweaker, so, VDDP 0.9, VDDG 0.95 VDDG IOD AUTO

HWiNFO reads,
VDDP 0.928
VDDG NO SENSOR
VDDCR_SoC 1.088
SoC Voltage (SVI2 TFN) 1.075

RM reads
VDDRCR_SoC 1.2
VDDP 0.8973
VDDG 0.9973

And least, but not least, as I said before, I'm getting worse performance running it stock like that, more heat, injecting more voltage in the CPU, what for? To see virtual nice numbers around 4550 in HWiNFO and that's all, performance/thermal numerically speaking, is worse, based on cb15/20 - gaming? I can't know, whatever I play there's no benchmark. The only difference in between this settings, and the one I use with a higher negative offset is I get better scores, better thermals, but I don't see any core going above 4450, which does not bother me. I'll keep cpu stock for now, like is set above, and soon will try another LLC and see how it will behave, and another offset, together and separately.

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Last edited by thomasck; 03-26-2020 at 06:28 AM.
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post #7378 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 07:34 AM
Stock is too casual~
 
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@thomasck let PBO on Auto, don't disable it as you still have board limits pre-applied
where you change SOC doesn't matter normally - it only matters when it comes to settings overwrite
Hierarchy would be AMD CBS>Main OC Tab>AMD Overclocking
Changing stuff in Main OC, does change in CBS - CBS changes have tho higher priority but are only applied after boot
Changing stuff in CBS, often doesn't show changes in main OC tab
Changing stuff in AMD Overclocking does overwrite main OC priority, but doesn't reset on CMOS reset

If you know what to change, use AMD Overclocking with only specific items in CBS , not both
But if you're playing around, AMD CBS might be a better option, as also settings there are not saved inside profiles and are wiped after CMOS reset

What you might lack of, is enabling UnCore OC flag in AMD Overclocking
All depends where you changed SOC
SOC VID is what should be requested, which later does go through LLC anyways
Do use LLC2 for vSOC, CPU we actually don't know yet
1004B loved LLC2 or LLC3
Your 1.2v vSOC are still there and requested - unable UnCore OC to disable this auto scaling
You can see auto scaling is on, because 1.1 VDDG and VDDP was requested, which means SOC had to be 1.2v

VDDP and VDDG are both CLDO_VDDP/VDDG
VDDG IOD & VDDG CCD are different
Dual CCD might need a bit more VDDG CCD like 25-50mV more, but it shouldn't be a concern right now
Important is fixing procODT and CAD_BUS values, else you mess everything else up
Keep vCore LLC so far on auto, we have updated VRM & mosfet behavior = updated LLC behaviour

Afterwards doublecheck if your set vSOC does still overshoot by 16-18mV
If yes, lower LLC from 2 to 3 down, but this modules are updated and configs changed

About realworld performance, we need SiSoftware Sandra Multi-Core Efficiency (detailed) reports, to see where the problem lies
Two things can and surely will happen
- There can be a 1:1 desync even when it is enforced as enabled
(noticable in 100ns Inter-Core Latency from furthest core inside one CCX to the furthest core inside another CCD inside the last CCX)
- you can actually be voltage and resistance throttled by the FIT module, if your procODT defaults to 60ohm or CAD_BUS is messed up
Also because CAD_BUS has new values, your memory OC can be unstable, because PMU got an update
well fully everything got an update

If you are throttling at 75c already, it can be an SMU update
I haven't fully explored all the changes to this exact moment, too many things changed
But AMD CBS has i think under NBIO was it, a flag to specify new throttle temp
You can use 85c there
Only SOC VID in CBS goes as Hex value

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post #7379 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 08:34 AM
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@Veii

let PBO on Auto, don't disable it as you still have board limits pre-applied
I set it off cause that's what you said to test, above.. anyhow, pbo ON (with or withou uncore oc enabled/disabled) has negative effect on clock, cause it's low vcore when enabled. around 3950 4ghz 1.21v under cb20..
where you change SOC doesn't matter normally - it only matters when it comes to settings overwrite
Hierarchy would be AMD CBS>Main OC Tab>AMD Overclocking
Changing stuff in Main OC, does change in CBS - CBS changes have tho higher priority but are only applied after boot
Changing stuff in CBS, often doesn't show changes in main OC tab
Changing stuff in AMD Overclocking does overwrite main OC priority, but doesn't reset on CMOS reset
that's fine, SoC reading does not change no matter what I do. RM must have a glitch in reading that, as HWiNFO matches with whatever is set on bios

What you might lack of, is enabling UnCore OC flag in AMD Overclocking
All depends where you changed SOC
with uncore oc enabled it seems to boots a bit more, but when there's nothing in the background, FireFox is a boost killer as far as I can notice here
SOC VID is what should be requested, which later does go through LLC anyways
Do use LLC2 for vSOC, CPU we actually don't know yet
that also did not change any SoC reading, I expected to see a lower SoC when using LLC2 but stills the same
1004B loved LLC2 or LLC3
Your 1.2v vSOC are still there and requested - unable UnCore OC to disable this auto scaling
it does not change, either on auto/enabled/disabled, that might be a RM misreading as HWiNFO reads it correctly
You can see auto scaling is on, because 1.1 VDDG and VDDP was requested, which means SOC had to be 1.2v
auto scaling is caused by uncore oc? that was off all the time

VDDP and VDDG are both CLDO_VDDP/VDDG
VDDG IOD & VDDG CCD are different
Dual CCD might need a bit more VDDG CCD like 25-50mV more, but it shouldn't be a concern right now
don't think is a concern, stress test went all fine, gonna play something soon to confirm that
Important is fixing procODT and CAD_BUS values, else you mess everything else up
I'm using the same as before, dram calc values, and ram got over two hours of kahru mem test no problems
Keep vCore LLC so far on auto, we have updated VRM & mosfet behavior = updated LLC behaviour
Yeah, I'm keeping, even if I don't like this extra 5-6C

Afterwards doublecheck if your set vSOC does still overshoot by 16-18mV
If yes, lower LLC from 2 to 3 down, but this modules are updated and configs changed

gonna try that

About realworld performance, we need SiSoftware Sandra Multi-Core Efficiency (detailed) reports, to see where the problem lies
Two things can and surely will happen
- There can be a 1:1 desync even when it is enforced as enabled
(noticable in 100ns Inter-Core Latency from furthest core inside one CCX to the furthest core inside another CCD inside the last CCX)
- you can actually be voltage and resistance throttled by the FIT module, if your procODT defaults to 60ohm or CAD_BUS is messed up
Also because CAD_BUS has new values, your memory OC can be unstable, because PMU got an update
well fully everything got an update

gonna check sissandra soon. new procodt and cadbus? where to get info about that?

If you are throttling at 75c already, it can be an SMU update
I haven't fully explored all the changes to this exact moment, too many things changed
But AMD CBS has i think under NBIO was it, a flag to specify new throttle temp
You can use 85c there
the only place I saw a flat to change throttling temperature is under pbo>advanced, nowhere else. I've looked around and found nothing, only a TDP but that would be in watts, not celsius
Only SOC VID in CBS goes as Hex value
I'll leave that alone

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Last edited by thomasck; 03-26-2020 at 10:44 AM.
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post #7380 of 7406 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 12:06 PM
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What's funny is with the updated VRM i can now retest everything and compare since i did LLC1-5 settings on 62 haha

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