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post #631 of 760 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 06:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Keith Myers View Post
No you are wrong. I never once stated the hosts I was referencing were running any version of Windows. You read into my post your own bias. Our team almost exclusively runs Linux. The evidence can not challenged. Cpu task completion times increase exponentially to double or triple the normal expected run time when the host is overloaded by running too many tasks. Testing results can be repeated and verified by simply restricting the cpu task count and matches up with the online magazine reviews that showed a performance hit on the 2990WX at around 36 cores engaged out of the 64. If you keep the concurrent cpu task count below about 36, then for a host running approximately 3.9Ghz, the tasks take around 1 hour to finish. When you increase the concurrent task count to 48, then some tasks take about 2 hours to finish. Go to 60 concurrent tasks and a large majority of tasks take around 3-4 hours to finish and the overall average of task completion times stretches out to around 2 hours. So by running too many concurrent cpu task at one time, your daily production actually decreases overall. There is a sweet spot where average completion time is minimal while producing a maximum daily output for the host.

[Edit] The person who sold off his TR 2990WX achieved his desired goal of high production cpu machine by building a dual Xeon cpu host with 56 threads total and can keep all cpu tasks running for approximately the same compute times. The Xeons don't clock as fast as the TR being the most restrictive factor. But his daily output is better with the dual Xeon host with less total amount of threads than his failed TR experiment.
Then can you provide more evidence. To be fair, your critique sounded much like the scheduler issue found with Windows.

Now, there is a question related to memory bandwidth per core on the 2990WX being less, which would impact larger datasets and tasks imposed on the chip, considering you are comparing a quad channel memory setup to at minimum and eight channel memory setup (four channels per Xeon), if not more, and in that case, it isn't a fair comparison if you were bandwidth limited.

I take it your friend was using two 14-core Xeons. Which generation? What was the dataset? That performance deficit wasn't really shown too much on Phoronix's linux review. What was the online magizine? Main ones that would have shown Linux benches is Serve the Home and Phoronix, although I cannot remember if Ian Cuttress of Anandtech checked the Linux performance in his review (I'd have to check).

Can you give more information, because with what you have given me, there is a chance you are correct, but there are many factors at play and the general consensus is that although there is a memory penalty for those dies, the performance degradation should not have been that large outside of specific use cases (meaning you may very well be telling the truth, but I don't have enough from your explanation to explore its veracity or have the full explanation).

Meanwhile, if you followed AMD's design, you would know TR will have a centralized UMA memory situation where all memory goes to the I/O die, then out to the cores, meaning equalized latency per core for memory calls. If it was a bandwidth per core issue, then equalizing latency won't solve your bandwidth deficit. But it will resolve the stale data issue where the cores crank out work, but by the time they do, the data has already been performed by a core with a lower memory latency.

So please, explicate in detail what the setup is and your sources for magizines showing that behavior on Linux, which should have been closer to a 30% slowdown rather than 50% in specific workloads due to the memory solution.

Also, if going with two Xeons, why wasn't the 7551P tested, which had all dies connected to the memory, had eight channels of memory, and costed around $2300? Granted, depending on build time, the boards for that didn't come out until October, but considering the 2990WX came out in August, unless tested then or in September, it wouldn't have been possible to test the 7551P (can't wait forever for hardware to drop).

Once again, please give more details....

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post #632 of 760 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 01:44 PM
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Does this board support bifurcation and if so is it only in the x16 slot(s) or on the x8 slot(s) as well?



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post #633 of 760 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 02:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PuffinMyLye View Post
Does this board support bifurcation and if so is it only in the x16 slot(s) or on the x8 slot(s) as well?
Yes on both

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post #634 of 760 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 03:12 PM
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Sold the 2990WX because of poor performance on Seti

If I remember correctly, the magazine reviews were from AnandTech, PCPerspective and Level1Linux. I am referring to the 2990WX hosts at [email protected] running cpu tasks. The dialogs unfortunately are scattered about several different threads with the issues of overloading the 2990WX with too many concurrent cpu tasks. The person I said that dumped his 2990WX changes hardware pretty often. He is now running two Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2690 v2 @ 3.00GHz [Family 6 Model 62 Stepping 4] on a dual socket motherboard. His host Details page is here. https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show...hostid=8676008
If you look at his cpu tasks they are very consistent with the same amount of run_time and cpu_time meaning they didn't have to wait for memory access or latency and every clock cycle was accounted for with no wasted clock cycles waiting for memory access.

The other hosts running the 2990X are here:

https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show...hostid=8365846
https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show...hostid=8528566
and here is your Eypc 7551P https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show...hostid=8686063

What we have discovered on the 2990WX is that if you run more than about 36 tasks concurrently, your processing times jump to way more than normal on the cores that have to go through extra jumps to memory. The cpu_times are much shorter than the run_times. The run_times are the elapsed wallclock time. The person who is currently investigating this behavior is jsm who didn't want to take our collective experience with the 2990WX at face value and wanted to investigate and prove on his own the best setup for the 2990WX. He started out running 60 tasks and once the RAC stabilized for that value, dropped it down to 48 tasks. He will then drop the concurrent count down to 36 task and finally to 24 tasks. His thread starts here. https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/foru...postid=1976410
His host is here. https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show...hostid=8680050

Compare his average APR or average processing rate which is only 16.94 GFLOPS. The other 2990WX hosts I listed above have APR rates in the 20's GFLOPS to 40's GFLOPS because they are running less concurrent cpu tasks.

[Edit] The exact quote from Tom M why he sold off his 2990WX

Quote:
The 2990ws/2970wx have a funky memory setup. 1/2 of the cpus don't have direct access. I assume you are running 4 memory sticks? If not, that will slow it down. The fastest memory that you can manage with CL14 and speed of 3200 is a good idea. Samsung die memory is an excellent idea.

As a former owner of a 2990wx I found that the fastest cpu processing occurred when I allowed about 26 cpu threads.

You can go into the local configuration under the Boinc Manager and set the number of cpus used to about 40% to get to that number of threads.

I was so disappointed when I discovered the 26 thread fact I sold mine off.

In the current generation of Threadripper 2's I think the 2950wx which has all cpu cores having direct access to memory is your best choice for a high core system.

The AMD Master program under Windows is supposed to have a "local" background task that will help keep the cpu tasks in the "closest/shortest" memory paths for that task. This might help.

There is a free beta test Windows OS tool that stops windows from constantly moving the threads around trying to get things "faster". This is a Windows design issue. It apparently doesn't do more than two cpu equivalents very well. Your 2990wx has the equivalent of 4 cpus in there.
It is here:
https://www.extremetech.com/computin...wx-performance

I would be VERY interested to see if the above helps. I didn't find out about this until after I had sold my 2990wx.

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Last edited by Keith Myers; 03-23-2019 at 12:46 PM. Reason: wanted to explicitly quote the person who sold his 2990WX off
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post #635 of 760 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 04:42 PM
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I thought I also might offer a benchmarking tool that exposes pretty well the problem of running too many tasks at a time on Threadripper and particularly TR 2990WX. You can set the number of cpu instances you want to test in the tool and see how the compute times change over N parameter from 1 to 64 cores in play. One of our developers has spent a considerable amount of time developing the benchmark. It handles both cpu and gpu applications tested together or separately. You might want to give it a try for cpu N = 24 36 48 and 60 for example. You will see the inflection point right around 24-26 normally.

Rick's Benchmarking Tool -BenchMT 1.30

https://github.com/Ricks-Lab/benchMT

We tested very thoroughly the 2700X, 1950X and 2990WX. The 1950X and 2990WX were tested on the exact same hardware setup.

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post #636 of 760 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 03:48 AM
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Soo taichi is death... beta bios 6 months no finnished.. no explain about agesa in 3.50 bios.. no update in software section.. i have third x399 taichi becouse vrm phase burned.. whole board is enginering fail.. they dont have recomended for higher thr1 or two cpus.. 24/7/365 run this mobo is imposible.. vrm have constant 120 c. on scientific application run in cool no heated room.. i remember motjerboards from 2000+ and they jave big cooper blocks on chipsets anf vrm .. today ing put 5 gram cheap aluminium and advertising bombastic reklamme .."what a product" but in real life ..death!

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post #637 of 760 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 11:41 AM
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What are you all using to bench your OCs in terms of stability/temp testing that is more of a real world test than Prime. I just think there is almost no workload I will be throwing at my CPU that will approach anywhere near what Prime is pushing my CPU to do.

The hardest I'll be pushing is probably handbrake and only on half the cores.



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post #638 of 760 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 03:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Causality1978 View Post
Soo taichi is death... beta bios 6 months no finnished.. no explain about agesa in 3.50 bios.. no update in software section.. i have third x399 taichi becouse vrm phase burned.. whole board is enginering fail.. they dont have recomended for higher thr1 or two cpus.. 24/7/365 run this mobo is imposible.. vrm have constant 120 c. on scientific application run in cool no heated room.. i remember motjerboards from 2000+ and they jave big cooper blocks on chipsets anf vrm .. today ing put 5 gram cheap aluminium and advertising bombastic reklamme .."what a product" but in real life ..death!
I don't have the Taichi. I have the Fatal1ty Gaming Pro X399 motherboard. I'd have to say it is as rock stable as my ASUS X99-E-10G_WS workstation motherboard. Both run 4 gpus crunching 24/7/365 with all the physical cores running cpu tasks.

I did install a fan in front of the motherboard blowing over the RAM and VRM heatsink. I also did replace the stock thermal pads on the VRM's and PCH with the same FujiPoly thermal tape that I used to repair the ASUS X99 board which was mis-manufactured with no thermal pads on the PCH and PLX chips. Had leftovers from that project.

VRM's only running 55° C. I agree that the descriptions for the BIOS on the Asrock site leave a lot to be desired. I put the 3.50 BIOS in and turned off Spread Spectrum but I have no idea what the AGESA level is. I don't know anyway of getting the parameter in Linux. Maybe one of the Windows users can tell me what it is in AIDA or HwInfo.

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post #639 of 760 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 03:45 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PuffinMyLye View Post
What are you all using to bench your OCs in terms of stability/temp testing that is more of a real world test than Prime. I just think there is almost no workload I will be throwing at my CPU that will approach anywhere near what Prime is pushing my CPU to do.

The hardest I'll be pushing is probably handbrake and only on half the cores.
Ha ha ha LOL. Prime95 is my quick and dirty test. It doesn't stress the system as much as my real workload. I run BOINC projects SETI, MilkyWay, Einstein and GPUGrid on my Threadripper. If it is stable on my real workload, I can't fathom what other workload would cause it issues.

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post #640 of 760 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 01:03 AM
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hi , keith M. you are best in knowlledge and experienced in boinc , i know you , respect .)
Try Rakesearch )) now in formula boinc ,unreachcable " so wait few days and after try crunch this project , and watch vrm temps.. other project are not soo vrm intensive, primegrig or other dont use specific task to heat vrm ,

How is it about new ram kits ? HX433C16PB3K2/32 i want try this .. only 2x16 gb , two channel ram , for 2990wx is better than four ,,becouse cpu specification , witch will better in rome

Now all producers wait for new ryzens and thr in attum ..soo thats why is asrock soo silent and do not produce more hi end boards for x399.. becouse wil 499 chipset as we know from leaks , but also logically , x399 is old now ,,

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