[PSA] ASUS Zenith Extreme doesn't suck (you just ain't an 'ENTHUSIAST') - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[PSA] ASUS Zenith Extreme doesn't suck (you just ain't an 'ENTHUSIAST')

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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-03-2017, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Background:
I built a 1950x + Asus Zenith + 4xGPU system for my work.

Introduction
After finally having some time to sit down and start tinkering with OCing my rig, I ran into all the problems pretty people typically post here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Every Asus Zenith Buyer 
  1. Bluetooth doesn't work
  2. can't boot from my $400 M.2 drive
  3. Windows 7 won't start
  4. Linux destroyed my...x,y,z
  5. I can't boot with n sticks of RAM
  6. My ram is running at 2133 and I paid so much for it!!!!
  7. The Cpu won't go higher than 3.4 GHZ, help
  8. The lights are not shining properly
  9. The fans are not spinning properly
  10. The little cute OLED screen is telling me my CPU has error 00 every time I start

The Part you care about: What should you do to avoid having a single problem with this amazing platform
Look here wise-guy, I am a busy man(woman? Trolls exit to the left, plz), before I struggle to read this post, what kind of results will it net me? (Click to show)

Your mileage or kilometers per amount of fuel will vary, but for me and my ****ty dual rank, samsung E die ram this is the difference...

Out of the Box


Following the general steps outlined below

  1. If using windows, install Windows 10. All problems gone. You can buy it for $30 on amazon. Install fresh copy of OS and reinstall all programs. This will give you the fastest performing feel and will bring a smile to your face.
  2. Flash your BIOS to the latest (it is never buggy, despite what people say), presently 804.
  3. Once you install windows, don't go ham installing all the pretty little ASUS programs. . You are an ENTHUSIAST after all, you don't need some fancy OCing program, you use BIOS (if you are not an enthusiast you should not have bought this board, as the fun for an enthusiast really comes from tweaking this kind of stuff).


    Ok now the RAM stuff...(in the book that came with the motherboard, it says where you should stick the RAM modules)
    1. After you installed the windows and ran windows update, and the only thing you downloaded and installed is latest GPU drivers (no other nonsense, promise?), you will download the following application -> Thaiphoon Burner http://www.softnology.biz/ (weird name for a program, you say? But despite its shady url and juvenile name, it is fine)
    2. When you run the program, it currently will have an ironic screen which reads 'QUICK start' with written instructions 99.9998% will run when they use this software(in case you need to know, siamese twins..).


      Click the 'Read' button in the toolbar. (hint for the developer, just have it read the damn SPD automatically)
    3. Now you are looking a $#!+load of numbers, and getting ready to do some matrix math...yeah.
    4. The only reason you downloaded this software is to find out what kind of memory chips you have (omg,omg let it be this amazing B-die!!!rolleyes.gif).
      In particular:
      • Who makes my memory chiips (ie Samsung, Hynix, Russia) (Click to show)
        Manufacturer
        Samsung
      • What _RANK_is my RAM? (..but, but I see the timings, I can just go plug those into BIOS and live happily ever after!! No? -,-) (Click to show)
        Organization
        1024M x64 (2 ranks)

        or from

        JEDEC DIMM Label
        8GB 2Rx8 PC4-2133P-UB0-10
        (whatever you do, and I am serious about this: DO NOT SEARCH FOR THIS ON eBay. EVER!Promise? Good.)
        The only part you care about is 2Rx8 . Yours could read 1Rx8, 2Rx16, 4Rx128(you might be a lonely server)...
        The number in front is what RANK your memory is.

        Let that sink in. OK, so *** is rank...oh boy. OK, if you understand this you are probably qualified to lead museum tours.
        In short,
        SINGLE RANK RAM stick
        DUAL RANK RAM stick
        Do you really need a picture with 2 hippos? Fine


        Legend: the blue thing is a ram stick, hippos are RANKS of ram chips on your stick.
        The CPU throws balls at hippos through the hole on the side.
        CPU can throw more balls at a plate with 2 hippos without risking hippos choking or suffocating from too many balls.

        Got it? More hippos means more balls get stored per unit time as long as you can keep balls coming in. ie. Single rank would throw one ball at a hippo,wait, have it chomp it down.
        In double rank, an a$$hole cpu could throw in 2 balls, one after another (CPU only has one arm per plate) and have them both be eaten faster than throwing just one at a time.


        Oh and for the wizards claiming that they can tell how many ranks there are on a memory module by looking at the stick, tell them that they probably cannot work as a museum guide. It does not matter if you only have ram chips on one side or both of the stick or on all 2.5 dimensional plane, hippo's a hippo.
        And finally what die do I got!!!!(omg, omg plz let it be B-die!!!) (Click to show)
        Ha, got you! Die don't matter. E die is later revision of B die, etc.
        Don't believe me?
        Here's a spot the difference test for you then.

        Samsung B Die
        http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/server-dram/ddr4-component/K4A8G085WB?ia=3068

        Samsung E Die
        http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/server-dram/ddr4-component/K4A4G085WE?ia=3068
        There is different capacities you can get them in, but overall very similar.
        For ryzen current record is held by a set of E-die Samsung sticks at 4+gigs.
      • Download Ryzen DRAM Calculator (Click to show)
        A very smart or possessed person on this forum wrote a utility called Ryzen DRAM calculator. Threadripper is Ryzen (I bet a surprisingly large number of people did not know this)

        Download it from:

        https://www.overclock.net/t/1640919/ryzen-dram-calculator-overclocking-dram

        For what it's worth I did not disassemble the executable and don't know if he did some clever stuff in there, and I have no idea why he did not put it on github, but you can probably trust him.

        Do as he says:
        1. In your Thaphoon Burner (seriously, don't name software which you are trying to monetize, stupid $#%@^@, its like writing with gold and sealing your product with doodoo),click "Report" at the top.
        2. Jeez, look at all those numbers. Actually, don't. Scroll to the bottom, and click on text which could not possibly be a button "Show delays in nanoseconds".
        3. Now plug in those numbers in his probably-not bitcoin-minining-rootkit-still-should-run-in-sandboxie software called Ryzen Dram Calculator. It will tell you how to enter your bios settings for your ram.

        Now that you got your RAM bios settings (if you don't, your RAM will not run at all close to the advertised speed, you will become yet another entitled forum member crying at AMD, ASUS, Ganesh,Garfield,... (Click to show)
        In your BIOS you should just have optimized defaults turned on.
        If you are overclocking make sure you have good PSU, as cheaping out on PSU will yield you an overclocking rig which doesn't overclock. In general, if you are building a system with threadripper, you should put in at least a 1K psu.

        1. In bios enter the timings for 3200 mhz profile. You need to enter timings in several places.
          • Extreme tweaker for general voltages (recommended you put all the voltages to Manual, CPU is usually ok ~ 1.3-1.4 V depending on cooling. SOC and RAM voltages are incredibly tricky. These have an extremely narrow margin depending the rank of your memory and how many sticks you are using. Set it exactly to what the Ryzen dram app says.
          • In tweaker's paradise / nightmare, you have to sellect load line calibration aka llc and put a number 1-3 usually works well. See 1usmus examples in the google doc here for those settings, although you can probably get away with defaults ->https://www.overclock.net/t/1640919/ryzen-dram-calculator-overclocking-dram
            Make sure you set the DRAM start volts to the same values you have in your extreme tweaker.
          • You also have to go through ASUS's painful bios menu in the Advanced tab
          • Gradually go up in frequencies until you reach your desired number.
          • That's it. I suspect all the people whose Zenith mobo won't run their ram at the numbers they paid for simply have dual rank ram which is actually better to have than single rank (hence thats why servers use dual rank or even quad and higher rank)





Ok that's it. Overall, it is an amazing board, with rather fine components and really good layout. Excellent m.2 integration. GPUs work flawlessly, ffs, 4xGPUs pulling 1K from the wall, with 32 threads. Yeah, this is not a bad platform, this is a supercomputer. Expecting to OC it as if it were a quadcore is not realistic.

*UPDATE* There are no updates.




if you are going to outsource the DDR4 ram settings to some forum members, especially on your flagship personal computer motherboard, which is something that your multibillion company is known for....you might need to tell him that dual-rank ram kits exist....and maybe include some presets for those modules.

Your solution, of saying "Dual rank" modules are not supported is not exactly true. If anything higher rank memory is what you want for a massively parallel computer (hence this is why servers use them, and what threadripper chips are is simply epyc chips)



Threadripper chips are most likely exactly 32 core/64 thread chips with certain dies disabled. Also, they are not entry level chips fyi, they are like middle to high tier EPYC chips. They probably can run all 32 cores/4 dies, but you probably would not like that as a desktop it as it would have them running around 2.4 to 2.6 ghz. So quit talking smack about the memory controller being weak. This is not something you would want running windows, you would need a lot of ram, the mobo would have to be stripped of most things you enjoy like colored blinking lights, musicing, etc. It would run very slow. As a side note, an 1950x overclocked to 4ghz you are getting speeds/compute power of epyc chips, well close to like 85-90% clocks. Which is pretty good considering you don't use any of that for anything besides benchmarking smile.gif


Overall, this board is for tinkering and most importantly doing work. Now back to $#!77y code which has more bugs than Zenith bios wink.gif

p.s. linux is like napalm, very powerful, and if not handled properly, it destroys things like filesystems, hopes/dreams, smaller cats, but rats also.

FYI, here is my not-on-qvl-dual-rank-samsung-E(short for EEEW:rolleyes:)-die ram running faster than its supposed to on the Asus zenith 1950x Ryzen system thumb.gif (apparently shoulda just gone and gotten single rank B-die and thrown away the 10-15% extra performance)

Samsung Eeew die

Also, fter watching various hardware wizards on youtube and this site post their build pictures and sweet RGB money shot videos/pics, I am very curious why all of them ignored to plug in all the power connectors for their extreme build featuring 32 cores which they are overclocking ever so expertly? Shrug rolleyes.gif

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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-03-2017, 12:40 PM
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cool thread

I am a Marxist. Not the Sanders/Sweden/state bureacracy kind, but the workers' democratic control over the means of production kind.

I often use the debates I get into on these forums to demonstrate logical fallacies to to my students and debate teams I coach. Beware - your arguments are under scrutiny of adolescents and teenagers!
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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-03-2017, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

cool thread
smile.gif You know it.
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-03-2017, 02:59 PM
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LOL +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPPPP ++++++++++++++++

enjoyed this alot. Nice quick research!!!

love the memory ratings + B-die E-die examples. hilarious.

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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-04-2017, 09:36 AM
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keng,
Also, you can get the number of ranks from
Quote:
Organization
1024M x64 (2 ranks)

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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-04-2017, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Jungle View Post

keng,
Also, you can get the number of ranks from
Updated my post, thank you!
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-04-2017, 12:41 PM
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Ahahha nice thread thumb.gifbiggrin.gif

Stand#1 Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX (bacth 1817) @3.8-4.3 + Liqtech 240 * MSI MEG CREATION * G.Skill [email protected] * XFX R7 370 OC * Corsair HX750i * Samsung 960 PRO * Benq BL3201PT
Stand#2 Ryzen 2700X (bacth 1805) @4.2-4.35 + NZXT Kraken x62 * MSI M7 AC * G.Skill [email protected]3733CL14 * MSI GTX 1080 Ti GAMING X * Corsair HX750i * Samsung 970 PRO
DRAM Calculator for Ryzen™ 1.4.1 by me + TM 5 0.12 1usmus config v2 (memory test)
How to update BIOS correctly + Unlocked AMD_CBS for Ryzen motherboard
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 01:10 PM
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Dude if Rick Sanchez bothered to post in forums, he'd be this guy. Well done sir, I'd offer you some isotope 322 if I had some laying around.
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 07:36 PM
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LOOL ... Keng can you post a AIDA64 ? I'm curious about how perform those Dual Rank memory biggrin.gif

I7 8700K@4.7Ghz / Z370-A / 2X8GB 3200Mhz ADATA Spectrix D40 / 1TB Intel 600P / EVO 850 250GB / 4TB WD Gold / RTX 2080 GAMING OC / NZXT Noctis 450 ROG / EVGA G2 850W@ECO
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexer View Post

LOOL ... Keng can you post a AIDA64 ? I'm curious about how perform those Dual Rank memory biggrin.gif
Yeah, here you go, this is untweaked 2T 3466...I think you could get higher with lower clocks and tighter timinings, but you can compare it to same thing people have with 1 rank



Edit: Here you go tighter timings for comparison
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