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post #11371 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 11:18 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Baio73 View Post
WELL DONE AMD!

I own a X570 board, so I was not directly envolved, but I think they took the right decision for the brand's reputation.

I just can't understand why upgrading the BIOS to the Zen3 compatible version should be a no-return action... can't think of any technical reason, and do think about many marketing reasons, as this means you won't be able to sell your mobo as used to people with a Zen - Zen+ - Zen2 CPUs...

Baio
100 Percent Agree!

And, I think I know the reason they are not supporting a return to the older bios. I don't believe they made this decision for those of us with 32MB Roms, because our CPU's will be able to support the 3000 Series and the 4000 Series, so for us flashing back won't be an issue. But I believe they don't want to confuse the situation, so they are just saying plain and simple that once you flash forward, you won't be able to flash back, giving people the expectation that they can only go one way.

The Reason for this is that there will be a bunch of 16MB Rom boards on the 400 Series (There are way more 16MB Rom Boards then there are 32MB Rom Boards) And for a good portion of these boards, they won't be able to fit the code for the Older and the Newer CPU's in the Rom, so for this reason they only want to support the one way jump, they can build in code to make the transition easier, so if you have a 3000 Series Chip, and then you flash forward to the 4000 Series chip, once the flashing is done they can build in some type of message on boot that will say that the flash was successful and to go ahead and swap the chips. However going from the New Bios to the Old, that Code will not be there, and they are afraid that a lot of people will bork the process, so they just don't want to support it at all. It does make sense when you think of it from that perspective.

However, with all that being said. For those of us with BIOS Flashback, it won't matter, we could use BIOS Flashback to flash to the Older Bios and it will almost certainly work.

However, if they put in code to actively block us from Flashing from the New Firmware to the old, then all we will have to do is use an EEPROM Reader/Writer to Completely Erase the CMOS Ourselves, and then write the Older Bios to the CMOS. This will 100 Percent work, so for anyone who does want to sell a Board and make it compatible with an Older CPU, this is absolutely a way to do it, no matter what AMD decides to block, just look up EEPROM Reader, do your research, and you will get through it. Either that or Ask me, I will help you through it, this is the same process I use to Unbrick boards that have had bad flashes all the time.

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post #11372 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-20-2020, 03:04 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
100 Percent Agree!

And, I think I know the reason they are not supporting a return to the older bios. I don't believe they made this decision for those of us with 32MB Roms, because our CPU's will be able to support the 3000 Series and the 4000 Series, so for us flashing back won't be an issue. But I believe they don't want to confuse the situation, so they are just saying plain and simple that once you flash forward, you won't be able to flash back, giving people the expectation that they can only go one way.

The Reason for this is that there will be a bunch of 16MB Rom boards on the 400 Series (There are way more 16MB Rom Boards then there are 32MB Rom Boards) And for a good portion of these boards, they won't be able to fit the code for the Older and the Newer CPU's in the Rom, so for this reason they only want to support the one way jump, they can build in code to make the transition easier, so if you have a 3000 Series Chip, and then you flash forward to the 4000 Series chip, once the flashing is done they can build in some type of message on boot that will say that the flash was successful and to go ahead and swap the chips. However going from the New Bios to the Old, that Code will not be there, and they are afraid that a lot of people will bork the process, so they just don't want to support it at all. It does make sense when you think of it from that perspective.

However, with all that being said. For those of us with BIOS Flashback, it won't matter, we could use BIOS Flashback to flash to the Older Bios and it will almost certainly work.

However, if they put in code to actively block us from Flashing from the New Firmware to the old, then all we will have to do is use an EEPROM Reader/Writer to Completely Erase the CMOS Ourselves, and then write the Older Bios to the CMOS. This will 100 Percent work, so for anyone who does want to sell a Board and make it compatible with an Older CPU, this is absolutely a way to do it, no matter what AMD decides to block, just look up EEPROM Reader, do your research, and you will get through it. Either that or Ask me, I will help you through it, this is the same process I use to Unbrick boards that have had bad flashes all the time.
ASUS already removed the ability to flash newer bios from afuefix.exe, but flashback should work just fine....can't see why not...

This is what I had to say on YouTube after watching the GN video Re: Zen 3 on our boards...

I think AMD have been quite 'clever' here... As mentioned, some 4xx board had (some have!) PCIE 4 disabled half way through their life. AMD used PCIE 4 to differentiate products - but now they have done this, everyone is extremely grateful (including me) that their 1year old product will support the next CPU.

For me, is still startlingly obvious that PCIE 4 is being removed unnecessarily. They claimed to be protecting us, but when our boards were designed, manufacturers knew PCIE4 was coming, and (most) designed for it, many still run bios with it enabled... so although I'm happy about this, I STILL believe they should leave PCIE4 in tact, (especially) as it would fall under the same 'beta' conditions as the rest of the bios. MSI (and ASUS in at least 1 case) have already done the 'impossible' and re-enabled it on some B450 boards. B550 looks like it's a modest upgrade to X470. I'm happy though that I have an upgrade path which doesn't require an expensive MB update immediately.

So - AMD can now say 'we gave you Zen 3 support' - which makes it a lot harder to complain about PCIE 4, when they've already 'gone out of their way' to support us users. I bet X670 will get something that everyone will complain about! I also think AMD probably thought this would happen anyway. I think X470/B450 was meant to have PCIE4 and they realized they needed to differentiate 5xx chipsets to drive sales of the new boards by saying PCIE4 was a 5xx chipset exclusive.

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post #11373 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 10:00 AM
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I'm on 3004 bios, I'm trying CCX OC on 1.28V LLC4(so around 1.26V during load) and I'm getting reset and message "CPU Over Temperature press f1 to run setup" despite cpu vrms being 46 and cpu 81 in hwinfo. I'm testing in prime without AVX instructions to identify which core fails. Total CPU Package power consumption is ~170W. I even set all fans to max, because I tought that is again bios bug that turns off cpu fan, but that is not the reason and it's spinning. Is it again another bug in CVII or just one of CCXs not being stable?

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post #11374 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 11:00 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Pietro View Post
I'm on 3004 bios, I'm trying CCX OC on 1.28V LLC4(so around 1.26V during load) and I'm getting reset and message "CPU Over Temperature press f1 to run setup" despite cpu vrms being 46 and cpu 81 in hwinfo. I'm testing in prime without AVX instructions to identify which core fails. Total CPU Package power consumption is ~170W. I even set all fans to max, because I tought that is again bios bug that turns off cpu fan, but that is not the reason and it's spinning. Is it again another bug in CVII or just one of CCXs not being stable?
I haven't had any fan problems on 3004 and haven't run into any CPU Over Temp problems. Did you see what the die temps were? My die temps are almost always a little higher than Tdie/Tctl.

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post #11375 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 11:01 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Pietro View Post
I'm on 3004 bios, I'm trying CCX OC on 1.28V LLC4(so around 1.26V during load) and I'm getting reset and message "CPU Over Temperature press f1 to run setup" despite cpu vrms being 46 and cpu 81 in hwinfo. I'm testing in prime without AVX instructions to identify which core fails. Total CPU Package power consumption is ~170W. I even set all fans to max, because I tought that is again bios bug that turns off cpu fan, but that is not the reason and it's spinning. Is it again another bug in CVII or just one of CCXs not being stable?
Its another bug. I forget what is necessary to overcome it. I think a clean flash.

@Keith Myers Can enlighten us for sure though, he was the first to discover this bug and overcome it (That I am aware of).

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post #11376 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 11:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Its another bug. I forget what is necessary to overcome it. I think a clean flash.

@Keith Myers Can enlighten us for sure though, he was the first to discover this bug and overcome it (That I am aware of).
Going back it looks like @Keith Myers fixed his issue by updating to 2801. So I'm not sure there was a "fix". Perhaps re-flashing the BIOS with Flashback will work.

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post #11377 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 11:29 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Its another bug. I forget what is necessary to overcome it. I think a clean flash.

@Keith Myers Can enlighten us for sure though, he was the first to discover this bug and overcome it (That I am aware of).
Yes, the prime reason was the fans actually turning off in earlier BIOS'. But even after moving all fans to an external controller, I was still getting the CPU OT error.
A clean flashback of 2801 straightened up the internal BIOS registers that were still hanging on to the OT fault.
But I never have attempted any per CCX OC, I just run at fixed multipliers for all cores, so don't know if that changes the symptom and solution.

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post #11378 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 04:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Keith Myers View Post
Yes, the prime reason was the fans actually turning off in earlier BIOS'. But even after moving all fans to an external controller, I was still getting the CPU OT error.
A clean flashback of 2801 straightened up the internal BIOS registers that were still hanging on to the OT fault.
But I never have attempted any per CCX OC, I just run at fixed multipliers for all cores, so don't know if that changes the symptom and solution.
I had this as well, but a long time ago, pretty sure that prob is fixed on recent bios, I've certainly not had it happen in ages. I use the motherboard headers.

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post #11379 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-24-2020, 03:59 AM
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Hi, I had no time for tinkering with my PC for about a year... but the time has come, the moment is at hand [...].

3800XT and 3900XT are around the corner, I am finally going to replace my loyal R5 2600 @ 4.2GHz. I have some questions for you guyz, since you are more on a topic lately and most likely smarter than me on such topics:

1) Will 3600XT, 3800XT, 3900XT require bios update (we all know that Asus sucks due to greedy-way limited manpower)? Or it will use AGESA 1.0.0.4B/1.0.0.5 (which is not yet available for us) microcode?
2) Does C7H support currently CCD/CCX OC (I see that you are talking about it above)? I was even thinking to get rid of C7H and get B550 Aorus Master...
3) Do we have any data on 1.0.0.5 AGESA bios update?

Since CPU change is also good excuse to change bulky and not that awesome performing AC cooler (DRP4) that makes me angry every time I must access GPU (remove it) and blocks RGB (IO/RAM) :>
I was thinking about building (again) small Alphacool loop (280x30 + D5). Or I can go... for the first time with AIO... Corsair H115i/H150i Pro XT should be pretty legit (I don't like stuff that doesn't allow maintenance).
LC loop won't be a drama overkill for Ryzen low OC capabilities & C7H? I would be happy to max turbo speeds as much as possible and hold such config until AM5 second gen release (we all know that 1st DDR5 gen. will suck, like always). I am using PC mainly for 4K gaming and some davinci resolve stuff.

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post #11380 of 11417 (permalink) Old 05-24-2020, 07:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderDante View Post
Hi, I had no time for tinkering with my PC for about a year... but the time has come, the moment is at hand [...].

3800XT and 3900XT are around the corner, I am finally going to replace my loyal R5 2600 @ 4.2GHz. I have some questions for you guyz, since you are more on a topic lately and most likely smarter than me on such topics:

1) Will 3600XT, 3800XT, 3900XT require bios update (we all know that Asus sucks due to greedy-way limited manpower)? Or it will use AGESA 1.0.0.4B/1.0.0.5 (which is not yet available for us) microcode?
2) Does C7H support currently CCD/CCX OC (I see that you are talking about it above)? I was even thinking to get rid of C7H and get B550 Aorus Master...
3) Do we have any data on 1.0.0.5 AGESA bios update?

Since CPU change is also good excuse to change bulky and not that awesome performing AC cooler (DRP4) that makes me angry every time I must access GPU (remove it) and blocks RGB (IO/RAM) :>
I was thinking about building (again) small Alphacool loop (280x30 + D5). Or I can go... for the first time with AIO... Corsair H115i/H150i Pro XT should be pretty legit (I don't like stuff that doesn't allow maintenance).
LC loop won't be a drama overkill for Ryzen low OC capabilities & C7H? I would be happy to max turbo speeds as much as possible and hold such config until AM5 second gen release (we all know that 1st DDR5 gen. will suck, like always). I am using PC mainly for 4K gaming and some davinci resolve stuff.
1. There might not be 3600XT, 3800XT or 3900XT, but 3650X and 3750X which will be just 4XXX APUs with broken vega gpu where it will be turned off as igorslab says in newest rumor. Crosshair VII probably will get microcode, but Asus is always late to the party so expect a month or two after every other brands will get one and at least a month after their X570 update.
2. It does in ryzen master, but unfortunately we don't have an option in bios like CH8 to make it pernament regardless of system.
3. No.

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