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Asus Strix/Crosshair VII PE Level 3 and 4 multiplier adjustments through Ryzen Master

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 11:06 AM
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Sorry for delayed response .

Use ASUS Turbo V and you'll see the default offset, IIRC it's 272. I have dabbled with it occasionally, so my memory is hazing on which way tweak results on what kinda skew. If you try a small change (ie 268 vs 278), you should be able to see affect.

Be aware using this skewing also means over temperature protection on CPU may not at correct temp, due to the skewing. So if cooling fails you could be looking at CPU going to excessive real temp, resulting in damage, etc.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post
Sorry for delayed response .

Use ASUS Turbo V and you'll see the default offset, IIRC it's 272. I have dabbled with it occasionally, so my memory is hazing on which way tweak results on what kinda skew. If you try a small change (ie 268 vs 278), you should be able to see affect.

Be aware using this skewing also means over temperature protection on CPU may not at correct temp, due to the skewing. So if cooling fails you could be looking at CPU going to excessive real temp, resulting in damage, etc.
No, worries. I didn't immediately recognize Tctl when I first read your response, but it clicked in my head after a peak at HWiNFO.

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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-04-2018, 07:31 PM
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Awesome info, I'll be trying this out, start low and work my way up...
Thanks for sharing.
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by respoda View Post
Awesome info, I'll be trying this out, start low and work my way up...
Thanks for sharing.
Did you have a chance to try this out with your Strix board? I'm curious to know if it's the same.

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 01:53 AM
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I am on asus prime x470 pro , if i set pbo enabled and scalar x10 it will give me 168a limit as i lowering the scalar the edc limit is reduced. But as far as i can see the temprature and the sillicon are the things that gives the real limits of multi core boost.

It seems for me that my cpu (i think depends on silicon) can keep 4125mhz all core at heavy loads until the temprature reach 50c. Above 50c the cpu starts to drop multi. As the cpu getting hotter the multiplier is getting down.
s
So i can't understand how changing edc from ryzen master could be useful for something. is something that i miss ? why to use pe and dont use pbo scalar ?
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 03:02 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by kazablanka View Post
I am on asus prime x470 pro , if i set pbo enabled and scalar x10 it will give me 168a limit as i lowering the scalar the edc limit is reduced. But as far as i can see the temprature and the sillicon are the things that gives the real limits of multi core boost.

It seems for me that my cpu (i think depends on silicon) can keep 4125mhz all core at heavy loads until the temprature reach 50c. Above 50c the cpu starts to drop multi. As the cpu getting hotter the multiplier is getting down.
s
So i can't understand how changing edc from ryzen master could be useful for something. is something that i miss ? why to use pe and dont use pbo scalar ?

Well, for a couple of reasons...In the new bios update there is no longer a scalar, or at least on the C7H there isnt and also PE locks the all core multiplier and it doesnt actively downclock during load and PE also goes beyond limits if there is sufficient thermal headroom to do so, although I dont see many having much thermal headroom above 4.4ghz. He changes EDC to trick the multiplier values that are locked at POST. There is some algorithm or something that looks at the thermals and determines the all core multiplier and the single, 2, 4, and 6 core multiplier and once in the OS the only way to go from a 41.5x all core multiplier to 43.5x would be to do what he is suggesting since the multiplier will not go above that value once in the OS otherwise. The differences Ive seen in PE3 and PE4 besides how aggressive the voltages are is that with PE3 Single Core multiplier seems to be favored over the all core multiplier. At PE3 I can run my bclk to 106.6mhz resulting in 4640mhz Single core and roughly 4.425ghz all core but on PE4 at 104.8mhz the all core is much more aggressive with its multiplier as I will hit 4558mhz all core as well as the single core. It does take a lot more voltage and to get teh 43.5x multiplier you have to be running around 10c idle temps on the cpu. Its much easier to get the 43.5x multiplier on PE3. I just use PE3 for single core performance when I need it and PE4 for multicore performance. PBO does not have the same characteristics and has limitations during load and just cant reach the performance that PE3 and 4 can but PE is harder to maintain stability so each has their pros and cons.

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 03:08 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CJMitsuki View Post
Well, for a couple of reasons...In the new bios update there is no longer a scalar, or at least on the C7H there isnt and also PE locks the all core multiplier and it doesnt actively downclock during load and PE also goes beyond limits if there is sufficient thermal headroom to do so, although I dont see many having much thermal headroom above 4.4ghz. He changes EDC to trick the multiplier values that are locked at POST. There is some algorithm or something that looks at the thermals and determines the all core multiplier and the single, 2, 4, and 6 core multiplier and once in the OS the only way to go from a 41.5x all core multiplier to 43.5x would be to do what he is suggesting since the multiplier will not go above that value once in the OS otherwise. The differences Ive seen in PE3 and PE4 besides how aggressive the voltages are is that with PE3 Single Core multiplier seems to be favored over the all core multiplier. At PE3 I can run my bclk to 106.6mhz resulting in 4640mhz Single core and roughly 4.425ghz all core but on PE4 at 104.8mhz the all core is much more aggressive with its multiplier as I will hit 4558mhz all core as well as the single core. It does take a lot more voltage and to get teh 43.5x multiplier you have to be running around 10c idle temps on the cpu. Its much easier to get the 43.5x multiplier on PE3. I just use PE3 for single core performance when I need it and PE4 for multicore performance. PBO does not have the same characteristics and has limitations during load and just cant reach the performance that PE3 and 4 can but PE is harder to maintain stability so each has their pros and cons.
Thanks you made it clearer to me,

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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by kazablanka View Post
Thanks you made it clearer to me,
I actually upgraded from the X470 Prime Pro to the Crosshair VII to get the extra Performance Enhancer Level 3 and 4. Those are the levels that "lock" the multiplier. All the ROG boards have the extra levels, but The Stilt said the B450 boards don't have the VRM to run it.

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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 09:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CJMitsuki View Post
Well, for a couple of reasons...In the new bios update there is no longer a scalar, or at least on the C7H there isnt and also PE locks the all core multiplier and it doesnt actively downclock during load and PE also goes beyond limits if there is sufficient thermal headroom to do so, although I dont see many having much thermal headroom above 4.4ghz. He changes EDC to trick the multiplier values that are locked at POST. There is some algorithm or something that looks at the thermals and determines the all core multiplier and the single, 2, 4, and 6 core multiplier and once in the OS the only way to go from a 41.5x all core multiplier to 43.5x would be to do what he is suggesting since the multiplier will not go above that value once in the OS otherwise. The differences Ive seen in PE3 and PE4 besides how aggressive the voltages are is that with PE3 Single Core multiplier seems to be favored over the all core multiplier. At PE3 I can run my bclk to 106.6mhz resulting in 4640mhz Single core and roughly 4.425ghz all core but on PE4 at 104.8mhz the all core is much more aggressive with its multiplier as I will hit 4558mhz all core as well as the single core. It does take a lot more voltage and to get teh 43.5x multiplier you have to be running around 10c idle temps on the cpu. Its much easier to get the 43.5x multiplier on PE3. I just use PE3 for single core performance when I need it and PE4 for multicore performance. PBO does not have the same characteristics and has limitations during load and just cant reach the performance that PE3 and 4 can but PE is harder to maintain stability so each has their pros and cons.
This is very interesting to read. Are you able to share with us the thermal condition/cooling setup of this system? Also did you say you're using +0.025vcore offset on both pbo3 and 4?

I have a custom loop with overkill capacity, and now I have a better idea how I should approach my PBO tuning, but I seem to have been getting diminishing returns on my benchmarks despite using these overpowered configs such as pbo3/4.

I have heard using - offset is better for PBO3/4 by allowing greater headroom for boost, but my config does not seem to reflect that.

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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by specialedge View Post
This is very interesting to read. Are you able to share with us the thermal condition/cooling setup of this system? Also did you say you're using +0.025vcore offset on both pbo3 and 4?

I have a custom loop with overkill capacity, and now I have a better idea how I should approach my PBO tuning, but I seem to have been getting diminishing returns on my benchmarks despite using these overpowered configs such as pbo3/4.

I have heard using - offset is better for PBO3/4 by allowing greater headroom for boost, but my config does not seem to reflect that.

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If you have strong cooling then you'll want to add a BCLK increase to get more out of your CPU. Manipulating PE 3/4 will only get you so much until you adjust BCLK also. I've used PE 3 with a BCLK of 104 to reach 4.4GHz on all cores. It required very low ambient temps though -- cold weather with the window open.

If you want something more everyday then using PE 3 with BCLK 102 will allow you to get to 4.3GHz all core.

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