ASRock X399M Taichi OC (Living Guide) - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

ASRock X399M Taichi OC (Living Guide)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
External VRM FTW
 
mllrkllr88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,346
ASRock X399M Taichi OC (Living Guide)

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20180911_195709217.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	1.99 MB
ID:	224078

Greetings OCN!
I have had the opportunity to test the ASRock X399M Taichi motherboard with a 2990X CPU. I have posted the results in a few places, and several people have asked me about the correct settings to make this board fly, so I thought I would make an overclocking guide and share all the info that I have learned.

I am not going to get too deep into VRM specs or other tech specs, as those have been well covered by other media sources. However, none of the reviews out there talk about how amazing this board is for overclocking so I figured it was time.

To my knowledge this is the only 4-Dimm slot motherboard for this socket. It is this fact which makes this board so unique for overclocking. With reduced DRAM capacity the overall memory overclockability is higher than other motherboards with the same socket. This may not mean much for the average user, but for those who enjoy memory overclocking it's a huge advantage.

General overview, picture taken from asrock.com
Click image for larger version

Name:	Cover.PNG
Views:	48
Size:	696.6 KB
ID:	224116

Motherboard Pics
Spoiler!


Test System
CPU: Threadripper 2990WX
Motherboard: ASRock X399M Taichi
Memory: 32GB Teamgroup Dark Pro DDR4 3200Mhz (Samsung B-DIE)
Power Supply: Seasonic 1200W Platinum PRIME
Graphics: 9400GT (I use a very basic GPU for 2D testing)
Storage: OCZ Vertex 2 (64GB)
Cooling: Custom water with 2x360 radiators
OS: Windows 10 64-Bit (Latest build works best)
Maximum memory: Restricting the memory seen by OS to 1.8GB (Required for CL12 tests)

The first hurdle to overcome with this motherboard is cooling. As you likely already know, this CPU produces an incredible amount of heat, and in order to overclock it well it needs proper cooling. I am using the Alphacool Eisblock XPX CPU block with the TR4 adapter plate. The waterblock does not cover the entire IHS, but it does cover the DIEs underneath the IHS, which is the critical part. XPX Block Link
Click image for larger version

Name:	Block.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	4.08 MB
ID:	224118

As you can see in the picture below, the majority of the IHS is covered by the waterblock. I would like to actually measure the DIEs width underneath the IHS, but I have not been able to find any information about it up to this point.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Paste.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	3.12 MB
ID:	224120


Ambient Overclocking
With cooling taken care of and a strong fan blowing directly on the VRM, I felt comfortable diving right in. I quickly found out that this CPU builds up heat quickly and has a hard time releasing the heat, even with high quality liquid cooling. Often, benchmarks like Cinebench R15 will fail after it has completed 50% of the run. This is a clear indicator that heat is the issue and the CPU cannot recover quickly enough. It should be no mystery that the key to overclocking is finding the right balance between voltage, frequency, and heat.

Looking at Hwbot and other places, we can see that typical overclock results for this CPU are in the 4000Mhz to 4200Mhz range. My methodology for overclocking was to find a voltage setting that would keep the CPU below 85c during load with my particular water loop.

With this particular CPU was able to achieve Cinebench R15 stability at 4200Mhz with 1.30. I was able to pass 4250Mhz with 1.36v; however, the temps were out of control, so I decided to do all my testing at 4200Mhx. This overclock resulted in 85c Max CPU temp, 70c max VRM temp, and over 900W from from the wall.

Here you can see a video of this processor pulling over 950W from the wall while running Cinebench R15.

The key advantage of this motherboard is memory overclocking. The performance gain from memory overclocking on this motherboard is amazing. I was able to increase my Cinebench R15 score by over 10%, purely from memory configuration. Many other benchmarks show a gain of 10%, or even more in some cases, from memory overclocking.

I spent many hours testing different memory configurations using Samsung B-Die, and I ended up at 3600 12-12-12.
Click image for larger version

Name:	R15.png
Views:	80
Size:	1.91 MB
ID:	224122

The board achieve higher memory overclocks, such as 3733 CL12-11-11. However, in order to achieve the higher frequency with tighter primary timings, I was forced to sacrifice the secondary and tertiary timings. I found that for a few different benches 3600 12-12-12 Tight was better than 3733 12-11-11 loose. Unfortunately, with my memory kits I was not able to achieve 3733 12-11-11 tight with any reasonable stability.

I am happy to share the memory profile and general bios settings I used for the best efficiency:
Name:  181011165223.BMP
Views: 860
Size:  2.25 MB
Name:  181011165318.BMP
Views: 866
Size:  2.25 MB
Name:  181011165344.BMP
Views: 865
Size:  2.25 MB
Name:  181011165411.BMP
Views: 872
Size:  2.25 MB
Name:  181011165419.BMP
Views: 880
Size:  2.25 MB

You will see that I set Performance Enhancer and Performance Bias to 'auto' in the screenshots. I have been testing them, and they do seem to have a small impact of the score for some benchmarks. I don't yet have a good understanding of what they do or how they work, so I will leave that up to you to figure out.


LN2 Overclocking

Overclocking this motherboard and CPU with liquid nitrogen is really quite easy. However, there are a few key changes you need to make in the bios in order to achieve full pot temperatures.
  • Disable HD Audio
  • Set PCIe Gen 1
  • Increase 1.8v vail to 2.1v-2.2v
Important: If you are planning on mounting a LN2 pot, you will need to get size M3.5 threaded rod. That size seems to be extraordinarily rare, at least in the US. The only source I found online is at McMaster Carr: LINK

Here is an example overclock on LN2: 5300Mhz @ 1.55v
Click image for larger version

Name:	GPUPI.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	393.9 KB
ID:	224110

Due to the large metal socket, this board freezes very quickly. My sessions typically only last about an hour due to condensation and/or frost on the motherboard.
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20181007_124034191.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	3.81 MB
ID:	224108

Here are bios screen shots of the settings I used for liquid nitrogen cooling:
Spoiler!


Thanks for reading! I am still testing this motherboard, so I don't want to end this with a conclusion. This was not intended to be a review where I post it and forget it. I made this to actively help people overclock this board. Please ask questions, as I am happy to help if I can.

Lapping results to come later ...
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20181010_210540844.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	3.96 MB
ID:	224112
Attached Images
File Type: bmp 181011165158.BMP (2.25 MB, 16 views)

24/7 BENCH
(9 items)
CPU
[LGA115x] 8700k, 7700K, 7350k, G3258
CPU
[LGA2066] 7940X, 7740X
Motherboard
[OCF FTW] X299 OCF, Z170M OCF, Z97 OCF
GPU
E-Power, G-Power, H-Power, A-Power
RAM
B-DIE, HYKO, PSC, MFR
Power Supply
Seasonic Prime Platinum 1200W
Cooling
Kingpin Cooling: Venom & T-REX
Cooling
2x360 RAD Custom Loop
Case
Dimastech Easy V3.0
▲ hide details ▲



Last edited by mllrkllr88; 10-15-2018 at 03:03 PM.
mllrkllr88 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 01:25 AM
Tank destroyer and a god
 
Offler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,400
Rep: 87 (Unique: 68)
I am interested in more practical configuration... Watercooled...

What about 4Ghz, watercooled with less extreme RAM settings... Was the system stable over extended time when power draw peaked? Temps of the VRM would be also interesting.

--- Building in progress * AMD Threadripper 1900x * Asrock X399M Taichi * Radeon VII * Gskill Xflare / Samsung B-die 3200 14-14-14-32 * Samsung 970 PRO 512gb * Fractal Design Node 804 * Seasonic Prime Ultra 850 Titanium *
--- Desktop * AMD Phenom II x6 1090t @ 3,8GHz * ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 * Gigabyte R9 FuryX * A-Data XPG 2.0 / Elpida Hyper MNH 1866 @ 1600 6-6-6-18 * LSI 9211-8i / Raid 0 / 5x Corsair Force 3 GS * Creative Xfi Fatal1ty * Intel I210-T1 * Steelseries 6Gv2 * Logitech MX518 * Samsung U28E590D *
Offler is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 02:11 PM
HWBot Bencher
 
Noxinite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 896
Awesome guide, thanks for sharing!

DDR2 Frequency 1st Place = 910.1MHz DDR (1820.2MHz) - http://hwbot.org/submission/3589779

Reference Frequency 10th Place = 711.18MHz - https://hwbot.org/submission/3978447_


Noxinite is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
External VRM FTW
 
mllrkllr88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,346
Quote: Originally Posted by Offler View Post
I am interested in more practical configuration... Watercooled...

What about 4Ghz, watercooled with less extreme RAM settings... Was the system stable over extended time when power draw peaked? Temps of the VRM would be also interesting.
Yeah I totally agree I should add more normal info, lets work on it together. I would love to help you configure your memory, what are you working with?


Often times I will load my came C12 profile, but set 14's instead. If I set CL14-14-14 then I can enter the OS with all 32gb, even with tight secondary or tertiary timings and it requires less voltage too.

24/7 BENCH
(9 items)
CPU
[LGA115x] 8700k, 7700K, 7350k, G3258
CPU
[LGA2066] 7940X, 7740X
Motherboard
[OCF FTW] X299 OCF, Z170M OCF, Z97 OCF
GPU
E-Power, G-Power, H-Power, A-Power
RAM
B-DIE, HYKO, PSC, MFR
Power Supply
Seasonic Prime Platinum 1200W
Cooling
Kingpin Cooling: Venom & T-REX
Cooling
2x360 RAD Custom Loop
Case
Dimastech Easy V3.0
▲ hide details ▲


mllrkllr88 is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 04:06 PM
Tank destroyer and a god
 
Offler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,400
Rep: 87 (Unique: 68)
Quote: Originally Posted by mllrkllr88 View Post
Yeah I totally agree I should add more normal info, lets work on it together. I would love to help you configure your memory, what are you working with?


Often times I will load my came C12 profile, but set 14's instead. If I set CL14-14-14 then I can enter the OS with all 32gb, even with tight secondary or tertiary timings and it requires less voltage too.
So far 3200 14-14-14-32 on 1.35v. Any modification to those values upward in frequency or down with timings ended up in bluescreen. Kinda strange because RAM should be Samsung B-die.

Some info on Zen architecture:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/microarchitectures/zen

Quite extensive reading. Important part regarding RAM is that certain CPU uncore units share base frequency with RAM, therefore its good to go for higher speed for overall performance benefits. 3200MHz is already above original specs, so given that + fact that better RAM was even more expensive I chosen that for a target value.

More info about the build as a whole is in the link in my signature. Within last few weeks I fixed all settings which were causing minor lockups on boot, and I have now 100% stable config @ 4GHz and 1.225v. Memory up to 3600 cl16 would be still a way to go, but i am not willing to add much volts to RAM

--- Building in progress * AMD Threadripper 1900x * Asrock X399M Taichi * Radeon VII * Gskill Xflare / Samsung B-die 3200 14-14-14-32 * Samsung 970 PRO 512gb * Fractal Design Node 804 * Seasonic Prime Ultra 850 Titanium *
--- Desktop * AMD Phenom II x6 1090t @ 3,8GHz * ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 * Gigabyte R9 FuryX * A-Data XPG 2.0 / Elpida Hyper MNH 1866 @ 1600 6-6-6-18 * LSI 9211-8i / Raid 0 / 5x Corsair Force 3 GS * Creative Xfi Fatal1ty * Intel I210-T1 * Steelseries 6Gv2 * Logitech MX518 * Samsung U28E590D *
Offler is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
External VRM FTW
 
mllrkllr88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,346
Quote: Originally Posted by Offler View Post
So far 3200 14-14-14-32 on 1.35v. Any modification to those values upward in frequency or down with timings ended up in bluescreen. Kinda strange because RAM should be Samsung B-die.


but i am not willing to add much volts to RAM

I assume you are using 4x8gb of 3200 CL14 memory, correct?? The first step is to run Thaiphoon Burner and verify that you are indeed working with B-DIE Sammy, show us screenshot so others can see it. Its a free and easy program that allows you to read SPD details.


Once you have that worked out then we can pump some voltage. The Samsung B-DIE memory can take up to 1.50v without voiding the warranty and it is indeed listed in the XMP 2.0 specifications. You should be able to achieve 3600 14-14-14 with 1.50v or under, very easily. Most of the B-Die out there can take 1.95-2.15v easily and it does not harm them, however for daily use I would not recommend that high. I have benched mine for literally years at 2v+ with no harm to the memory or carious CPU's. It should be noted that this particular board/chip setup cannot take more than about 1.75v set in the bios...


Here is a quick method to set memory:
You want to start with a clean bios to make sure no weird settings are applied, do F9 to load all defaults, then F10 save and restart back to the bios
1: Set your CPU clocks which you know are stable, F10 save and restart back to the bios
2: Set XMP 3200 CL14, F10 save and restart back to the bios
3: Set 1.50v for both channels of memory. In the memory sub menu, find "ProcODT" near the bottom and set it to 53.3 as you can see in my screenshots, F10 save and restart back to the bios
4: On the main page, with XMP CL14 still applied, change 3200 to 3400 MHz memory frequency, F10 and go to OS to run some stability tests
5: If 3400 is all good, change 3400 to 3600 MHz memory frequency, F10 and go to OS to run some stability tests
6: Once you have established that 3600 CL14 is stable at 1.50v, you can try lowering the voltage by a small factor and running the same stability tests.

24/7 BENCH
(9 items)
CPU
[LGA115x] 8700k, 7700K, 7350k, G3258
CPU
[LGA2066] 7940X, 7740X
Motherboard
[OCF FTW] X299 OCF, Z170M OCF, Z97 OCF
GPU
E-Power, G-Power, H-Power, A-Power
RAM
B-DIE, HYKO, PSC, MFR
Power Supply
Seasonic Prime Platinum 1200W
Cooling
Kingpin Cooling: Venom & T-REX
Cooling
2x360 RAD Custom Loop
Case
Dimastech Easy V3.0
▲ hide details ▲



Last edited by mllrkllr88; 10-16-2018 at 04:30 PM.
mllrkllr88 is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-16-2018, 04:50 PM
Tank destroyer and a god
 
Offler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,400
Rep: 87 (Unique: 68)
I was looking for specific DIMMs which had almost 100% chance of having Samsung B-Die chips, 8 layered PCB, with 2oz copper layers.

https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-16gfx

However 4 DIMM kit was not available so i took two x2 kits. Trident-Z was the other viable choice, but FlareX was on the compatibility lists of motherboard and I am not fan of RGBs.

Thaiphoon confirms Samsung B-Die with 8 layered PCB. However I cant tell if its 2oz copper layer. Also when I know the specific part number of the chip, you can do much better tuning.

https://www.samsung.com/semiconducto...A8G085WB-BCPB/
https://www.samsung.com/semiconducto...1_Feb_17-0.pdf

Meaning, my RAM has chips K4A8G085WB-BCPB, which are oficially binned as 2133Mhz 15-15-15 @ 1.2v (resp. JEDEC standard 1.14v-1,26v). Among all Samsung B-Die, those are ones binned on the lowest frequency. Also its good to know two things:
a) Top limit for the voltage is 1.5v.
b) Highest allowed temperature is 85°C. Thermal sensors on DIMMs might prove very useful then.

The PDF might help to tune the RAM even more, however... due to the binning at 2133MHz and fact the RAM already runs on 3200MHz i am bit skeptical in potential OC. I will have time for that later tomorrow.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	gskill.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	346.9 KB
ID:	224662  


--- Building in progress * AMD Threadripper 1900x * Asrock X399M Taichi * Radeon VII * Gskill Xflare / Samsung B-die 3200 14-14-14-32 * Samsung 970 PRO 512gb * Fractal Design Node 804 * Seasonic Prime Ultra 850 Titanium *
--- Desktop * AMD Phenom II x6 1090t @ 3,8GHz * ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 * Gigabyte R9 FuryX * A-Data XPG 2.0 / Elpida Hyper MNH 1866 @ 1600 6-6-6-18 * LSI 9211-8i / Raid 0 / 5x Corsair Force 3 GS * Creative Xfi Fatal1ty * Intel I210-T1 * Steelseries 6Gv2 * Logitech MX518 * Samsung U28E590D *

Last edited by Offler; 10-17-2018 at 01:28 AM.
Offler is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 01:30 PM
Tank destroyer and a god
 
Offler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,400
Rep: 87 (Unique: 68)
Quote: Originally Posted by mllrkllr88 View Post
I assume you are using 4x8gb of 3200 CL14 memory, correct?? The first step is to run Thaiphoon Burner and verify that you are indeed working with B-DIE Sammy, show us screenshot so others can see it. Its a free and easy program that allows you to read SPD details.


Once you have that worked out then we can pump some voltage. The Samsung B-DIE memory can take up to 1.50v without voiding the warranty and it is indeed listed in the XMP 2.0 specifications. You should be able to achieve 3600 14-14-14 with 1.50v or under, very easily. Most of the B-Die out there can take 1.95-2.15v easily and it does not harm them, however for daily use I would not recommend that high. I have benched mine for literally years at 2v+ with no harm to the memory or carious CPU's. It should be noted that this particular board/chip setup cannot take more than about 1.75v set in the bios...


Here is a quick method to set memory:
You want to start with a clean bios to make sure no weird settings are applied, do F9 to load all defaults, then F10 save and restart back to the bios
1: Set your CPU clocks which you know are stable, F10 save and restart back to the bios
2: Set XMP 3200 CL14, F10 save and restart back to the bios
3: Set 1.50v for both channels of memory. In the memory sub menu, find "ProcODT" near the bottom and set it to 53.3 as you can see in my screenshots, F10 save and restart back to the bios
4: On the main page, with XMP CL14 still applied, change 3200 to 3400 MHz memory frequency, F10 and go to OS to run some stability tests
5: If 3400 is all good, change 3400 to 3600 MHz memory frequency, F10 and go to OS to run some stability tests
6: Once you have established that 3600 CL14 is stable at 1.50v, you can try lowering the voltage by a small factor and running the same stability tests.
Followed the guide, but I set 1.49v just to be sure I wont get over maximum allowed voltage. I reached 3600MHz CL 14-14-14-32 CR1 ODT 53.3. Values were verified by CPU-z and short run of Cinebench R15 (to find some increase in preformance). I tested stability with Prime95 Large FFTs. However one thread detected an error shortly after start.

Edit: 1.495v and Prime95 passed for 40 minutes.
OCCT Linpack however failed after 19 minutes 31 seconds - system lockup.

--- Building in progress * AMD Threadripper 1900x * Asrock X399M Taichi * Radeon VII * Gskill Xflare / Samsung B-die 3200 14-14-14-32 * Samsung 970 PRO 512gb * Fractal Design Node 804 * Seasonic Prime Ultra 850 Titanium *
--- Desktop * AMD Phenom II x6 1090t @ 3,8GHz * ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 * Gigabyte R9 FuryX * A-Data XPG 2.0 / Elpida Hyper MNH 1866 @ 1600 6-6-6-18 * LSI 9211-8i / Raid 0 / 5x Corsair Force 3 GS * Creative Xfi Fatal1ty * Intel I210-T1 * Steelseries 6Gv2 * Logitech MX518 * Samsung U28E590D *

Last edited by Offler; 10-22-2018 at 04:19 PM.
Offler is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
External VRM FTW
 
mllrkllr88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,346
Quote: Originally Posted by Offler View Post
Followed the guide, but I set 1.49v just to be sure I wont get over maximum allowed voltage. I reached 3600MHz CL 14-14-14-32 CR1 ODT 53.3. Values were verified by CPU-z and short run of Cinebench R15 (to find some increase in preformance). I tested stability with Prime95 Large FFTs. However one thread detected an error shortly after start.

Edit: 1.495v and Prime95 passed for 40 minutes.
OCCT Linpack however failed after 19 minutes 31 seconds - system lockup.
Awesome man, good to hear! From my perspective you are already there, however, I am not a 24/7 overclocker my daily system runs bone stock.

If you want to tune for stability you can try ODT 60 and see if that gets you anything. Also, something else to try is to tune the VDDR Termination voltage, VTT. This board setts slightly different values for VTT and you might gain stability by setting it manually.

First set VTT for both channels to exactly half of VDDR, so that would be 0.725v. If that doesn't get you any stability, try setting 0.700v for both channels. Again, if that fails you can try 0.750v. Dont be afraid to play around with the VTT values, they should help memory stability you just need to put in a little time learning what your system needs.

Report back with your findings

24/7 BENCH
(9 items)
CPU
[LGA115x] 8700k, 7700K, 7350k, G3258
CPU
[LGA2066] 7940X, 7740X
Motherboard
[OCF FTW] X299 OCF, Z170M OCF, Z97 OCF
GPU
E-Power, G-Power, H-Power, A-Power
RAM
B-DIE, HYKO, PSC, MFR
Power Supply
Seasonic Prime Platinum 1200W
Cooling
Kingpin Cooling: Venom & T-REX
Cooling
2x360 RAD Custom Loop
Case
Dimastech Easy V3.0
▲ hide details ▲


mllrkllr88 is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 02:04 AM
Tank destroyer and a god
 
Offler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,400
Rep: 87 (Unique: 68)
Quote: Originally Posted by mllrkllr88 View Post
..
As the stress on CPU cores went up by few percent as well, i will try slightly increase CPU Vcore this evening.

Edit:
Increase in CPU Vcore pushed OCCT Linpack to 50 minute mark, so... it looks more like a CPU Voltage limitation for now. ODT 60 didnt worked.

--- Building in progress * AMD Threadripper 1900x * Asrock X399M Taichi * Radeon VII * Gskill Xflare / Samsung B-die 3200 14-14-14-32 * Samsung 970 PRO 512gb * Fractal Design Node 804 * Seasonic Prime Ultra 850 Titanium *
--- Desktop * AMD Phenom II x6 1090t @ 3,8GHz * ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 * Gigabyte R9 FuryX * A-Data XPG 2.0 / Elpida Hyper MNH 1866 @ 1600 6-6-6-18 * LSI 9211-8i / Raid 0 / 5x Corsair Force 3 GS * Creative Xfi Fatal1ty * Intel I210-T1 * Steelseries 6Gv2 * Logitech MX518 * Samsung U28E590D *

Last edited by Offler; 10-23-2018 at 10:04 AM.
Offler is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off