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MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC Alternative?

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 11:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dogzilla07 View Post
The only other tangible differences are the lack of the additional 2nd M.2 slot which i don't think you'll mind , and slightly worse onboard audio (Carbon has 1220, X470 Gaming Plus have Realtek 892).



The biggest different in memory latency comes from changes and optimizations on the zen 2 compared to zen1 not from that tiny difference in the timings/latency. Those ripjaws at those timings with that 2700 instead would be like ~67.5-68ns and those ripjaws set to 16-16-16-36 would give be ~66-66.5ns. So that picture and setup is extremely misleading (we need to see those ripjaws on that 2700).

I mean sure the tighter additional timings other than the 4 primary ones on the FlareX will result in slightly better performance unless you go and put the ripjaws through ryzen calculator and manually tighten them, but the huge price increase does not justify the actual increase in performance and fps gain after you factor zen 2, and either tightening the stock 3000Mhz to 14-14-14-34 or running it at 3200Mhz @ 16-16-16-36. Nor do I believe the price is justified even if you leave the non-FlareX(samsung b-die) on stock docp values.

You got me curious, so i used the Calc on the Ripjaws. Like i said, for a mid-tier GPU we can even leave the RAM at 2400MHz and not see a difference in performance against higher speeds. Ripjaws vs FlareX.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 12:18 AM
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I wouldn't buy ram that costs more than the CPU, otherwise you'd have been better of just buying a better CPU.
Pick a board and whatever board you pick, check out it's QVL and see what ram the manufacturer has tested and confirmed.
$200 is pretty steep for a 16gb kit of 3200mhz b-die, you could just buy a faster kit of anything for less money and if the XMP isn't 100% stable you can always pull down the speed or bump the timing a bit. Or you can just check out the QVL
Good luck with your build.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 09:09 AM
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I was interested in the same mobo - the one the OP mentioned - no one commented about it, though. I have a question - why is this mobo OUT OF STOCK CONSTANTLY? It's been out of stock for more than a month, I think. I finally settled/decided on a mobo and it's just out of stock indefinitely. I liked the specs and people assure me that I don't need an X470 (chipset) mobo but now I must consider one again.

What's wrong with MSI?

I also read that the offset voltage issue was resolved/fixed with MSI boards - with the latter BIOS - but, is this true?

I would like a board with wifi/bluetooth 5 and Intel LAN (is it still better than Realtek LAN?) - preferably with decent VRMs - I have a 2700.

Anything out there that checks all the boxes? I assume I will need to spend much more than the $180 CAD that the MSI B450 boards was?!? :-/

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post
You got me curious, so i used the Calc on the Ripjaws. Like i said, for a mid-tier GPU we can even leave the RAM at 2400MHz and not see a difference in performance against higher speeds. Ripjaws vs FlareX.
Nice latency gain on the b-die, kinda wierd small gain for the ripjaw, different from some i saw when u zen 2 came out. That ripjaw 32 tRAS is a bit wierd, did you tighten tRAS and/or the rest of the non-primary timings, or did that just show up on DOCP stock ?

Quote: Originally Posted by noobee View Post
I was interested in the same mobo - the one the OP mentioned - no one commented about it, though. I have a question - why is this mobo OUT OF STOCK CONSTANTLY?
Tomahawk/Mortar/Carbon are out of stock often in every part of the world, due to being recommended as best buy by literally every single youtuber, review website, forum, and 99.5% of all people doing all recommending on the entire internet for months now

MSI can't keep up with the demand.

Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 5 WIFI has what you're looking for and a decent VRM but is too expensive, and ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming also qualifies but the VRM is as bad as the normal MSI B450M Bazooka, the only board that is cheaper and has VRM comparable to the Aorus Gaming 5 is Gigabyte B450 I Aorus Pro WIFI.

Last edited by Dogzilla07; 02-08-2019 at 12:08 PM.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 12:06 PM
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@Dogzilla07 ,
I just follow the calc. The only setting i mess with is tfaw (30s to 16). The FlareX 3200 docp has even better latency.

Anyway, OCN site is acting up using PC browsers. Mobile is fine. I mean, the threads are delayed or not showing latest responses.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 03:23 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dogzilla07 View Post
Nice latency gain on the b-die, kinda wierd small gain for the ripjaw, different from some i saw when u zen 2 came out. That ripjaw 32 tRAS is a bit wierd, did you tighten tRAS and/or the rest of the non-primary timings, or did that just show up on DOCP stock ?



Tomahawk/Mortar/Carbon are out of stock often in every part of the world, due to being recommended as best buy by literally every single youtuber, review website, forum, and 99.5% of all people doing all recommending on the entire internet for months now

MSI can't keep up with the demand.

Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 5 WIFI has what you're looking for and a decent VRM but is too expensive, and ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming also qualifies but the VRM is as bad as the normal MSI B450M Bazooka, the only board that is cheaper and has VRM comparable to the Aorus Gaming 5 is Gigabyte B450 I Aorus Pro WIFI.
That's interesting - although, I think MSI should have stepped up production as potential customers seem to really analyze/evaluate all this info - VRMs, voltages etc. etc. in a lot of places - not just on youtube - it's all over in tech discussions.
So, if I want something comparable to the B450 Carbon Pro AC - I think I have to look at some 'entry level' X470 boards - besides the Gaming 5, what about the Prime Pro, Strix-F and the X470 Pro Carbon (I can't find the AC version in Canada so I'll have to buy the 'expansion/add-on' wifi hardware if I really want it)? Won't any of those be comparable/worthy alternatives to the Gaming 5? They're all within $20 or so of each other, I think although $10+ more than the B450 but I can't get that one anyway so I might as well look at paying a bit extra, I suppose.

Edit: Actually, the Taichi was discounted (albeit with rebate, I believe) and is cheaper than the Strix-F. The Prime Pro is the same price or cheaper than the B450 would have been and the X470 Pro Carbon is $30 more than the Prime Pro board. The Gaming 5 here is priced in between the Pro Carbon and Prime Pro. So, which would you choose out of those?

I asked something similar in the Prime Pro discussion thread (I compared the Asus and MSI boards) but no one replied.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 07:29 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by noobee View Post
So, if I want something comparable to the B450 Carbon Pro AC - I think I have to look at some 'entry level' X470 boards - besides the Gaming 5, what about the Prime Pro, Strix-F and the X470 Pro Carbon (I can't find the AC version in Canada so I'll have to buy the 'expansion/add-on' wifi hardware if I really want it)? Won't any of those be comparable/worthy alternatives to the Gaming 5? They're all within $20 or so of each other, I think although $10+ more than the B450 but I can't get that one anyway so I might as well look at paying a bit extra, I suppose.

Edit: Actually, the Taichi was discounted (albeit with rebate, I believe) and is cheaper than the Strix-F. The Prime Pro is the same price or cheaper than the B450 would have been and the X470 Pro Carbon is $30 more than the Prime Pro board. The Gaming 5 here is priced in between the Pro Carbon and Prime Pro. So, which would you choose out of those?

I asked something similar in the Prime Pro discussion thread (I compared the Asus and MSI boards) but no one replied.
Y pretty much after the B450 Carbon you have to go to X470. The Prime X470-Pro is a good choice, same VRM quality, maybe worse heatsinks than B450 Carbon, better bios probably(though not sure now with offset fix for MSI boards), and it's got a nice color design scheme. And then at least for VRM quality the MSI X470 Pro Carbon, Asus Strix-X470F and Taichi(if i remember correctly) are a step up and better than everything else before them. No AC/WIFI version of the X470 Carbon Pro, for X470 that's the Gaming M7 AC.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...kkU/edit#gid=0

some boards are missing but it's a good start, i found the link on here on overclock.net


Not an easy choice , To make it easier i guess try to decide first if you want integrated WIFI or not, and how long do you want to wait for the B450 Carbon AC to come in stock. The Taichi the Prime Pro are both quite good, if you want to mess in bios a lot probably Prime Pro. Now if you don't mind worse overclock, the Gaming 5 WIFI is a good choice.

Wait nvm i just noticed the Taichi also has WIFI, that puts it infront, depending on the price of course.

Last edited by Dogzilla07; 02-11-2019 at 07:46 AM.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 08:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dogzilla07 View Post
Y pretty much after the B450 Carbon you have to go to X470. The Prime X470-Pro is a good choice, same VRM quality, maybe worse heatsinks than B450 Carbon, better bios probably(though not sure now with offset fix for MSI boards), and it's got a nice color design scheme. And then at least for VRM quality the MSI X470 Pro Carbon, Asus Strix-X470F and Taichi(if i remember correctly) are a step up and better than everything else before them. No AC/WIFI version of the X470 Carbon Pro, for X470 that's the Gaming M7 AC.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...kkU/edit#gid=0

some boards are missing but it's a good start, i found the link on here on overclock.net

Not an easy choice , To make it easier i guess try to decide first if you want integrated WIFI or not, and how long do you want to wait for the B450 Carbon AC to come in stock. The Taichi the Prime Pro are both quite good, if you want to mess in bios a lot probably Prime Pro. Now if you don't mind worse overclock, the Gaming 5 WIFI is a good choice.

Wait nvm i just noticed the Taichi also has WIFI, that puts it infront, depending on the price of course.
I have that spreadsheet, too. But, I thought of spending a bit less on the mobo since I need some more components to finish the build - like the case, psu etc. I also am interested in getting the 3700X when it comes out so I don't know whether to get that cpu and the next mobo chipset, X570, or see if it will work in whatever mobo I buy now/soon.

Maybe that should convince me to buy a mobo that has good vrms/heatsinks? There's so much conflicting/various info on boards - it seems there is an issue with every board we're talking about or various customers will find an issue and others will say their board is fine.

The Taichi is $238 CAD here but only after a $50 rebate so you might as well say it's about $290. The Prime Pro and B450 Pro Carbon (if I can find it at the only vendor that has or might have low stock) is $190. The X470 Pro Carbon is $230 CAD and the Strix-F is $250 CAD. The Gaming 5 is $220 or so, I forget. I thought going over $300 is either too much or not much gain for what you are getting - I might as well save 'the $100' towards a next gen board if I was going to pay that much.

As for the wifi/BT, I think I'll just save up some $$ and buy one of those 'expansion cards' - that way, it doesn't matter which mobo I choose although the total cost would go up. It seems you can get the same chipset - for e.g., Intel 9260 wifi chipset and BT 5 - with at least, two of the cards - Gigabyte makes one and I noticed a 'no-name' one on ebay.

Those prices are just at the moment and can change any time.


Last edited by noobee; 02-11-2019 at 08:35 AM.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 08:41 AM
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@noobee I think you'll be satisfied with B450 Pro Carbon if you can find it, from the VRM aspect it should handle the 3700x easily even if its tdp changes. Gaming 5 is a bit of a wildcard for 3700x. You have to choose between find a b450 Pro Carbon AC or waiting and see if there's any new info at GDC in march, and then decide if to wait for a x570.

and yes Prime Pro and a seperate wifi card is also a good option.
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