Asus Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi or Gigabyte Aorus Master - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

View Poll Results: Better power phases
Asus Hero VIII Crosshair Wifi (7+1, 60a) 11 40.74%
Gigabyte Aorus Master (14, 50a) 16 59.26%
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Asus Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi or Gigabyte Aorus Master

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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 08:51 AM
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3 points I need to make:
1. Aorus Master uses Infineon's latest 16 phase PWM. Unless you are dumping over 250A into your CPU on ambient it won't make a difference that you have 14x 60A powerstages vs 12x50A as light load efficiency is similar. What will make a difference is that the ASP1405I / IR35201 has phases turn on at ~8-12A so essentially light load efficiency is worse on the Hero. Ripple and full load transient response are also likely worse on the Hero since powerstages are turning on 1/7th of the time vs 1/12. This is what allows a 150nH inductor on the Aorus Master : the "twin" design on the ROG board likely is 400nH inductor based off past designs with that inductor. Additionally there is a finned heatsink and thermal backplate on the Aorus Master allowing it to have ~40 degree VRM temp with the 12 core R9 3900X which makes the Formula's waterblock seem really a waste of money.
2. 3x M.2 is more useful on x570 than 2 extra SATA. M.2 drives are cheap these days, and the main selling point of x570 is PCIE 4.0.
3. You cannot judge the BIOS by older Gigabyte boards as it received a complete overhaul.


Aorus is running a promo at Mindfactory right now and the chipset fan is getting fan stop option this week as part of BIOS update.



If anything the MSI ace is also a more well balanced board than the ROG Hero, 3x M.2 and chipset fan stop (with a prop fan blade and heatpipe to chipset) is more useful to most people than LN2 mode. Due to use of 220nH inductor and doublers with the IR35201 PWM ,transient performance will be slightly worse probably but ripple will be superior. Inductors resist current changes. Additionally MSI is discounting their boards in the form of bundles and rebates to offset the x570 premium.

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 09:52 AM
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Honestly, im just a layman compared to people like @AlphaC <3 Id only pay the 'ROG tax' if your a tweaker, like do you love to tweak ram? Component wise MSI and Gigabyte seem like better value as the prices are right now. Have you checked in the X570 Aorus owners club? Theres a gigabyte rep active there. Recently added bios fan control to the chipset fan, which is a huge plus in my book.

Im personally leaning towards Gigabyte atm. BIOS not as good as asus, but im the kind of guy that tweaks bios the first 1-2 weeks, then its pretty much set and forget. Gigabyte bios certainly good enough for that.

I built a rig with the MSI b450i gaming plus AC for a friend recently. Great little board and good bios, id feel confident about buying MSI for X570 based on that experience.
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 09:58 AM
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Rant removed. Good luck in your choice of motherboards Jiv!

Primus
(25 items)
pfSense Firewall
(10 items)
CPU
AMD - Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8GHz 12-Core (4.6GHz Max Boost)
Motherboard
Asus - ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi) X570 AMD ATX
GPU
Asus - GTX 1080 Ti Founders Edition 11GB 352-Bit GDDR5X
RAM
G.Skill - TridentZ RGB 32GB (4x8GB) 4000MHz F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR
Hard Drive
Samsung - 960 Pro 512GB M.2-2280 PCI-E v3.0 x4 NVMe SSD
Hard Drive
Seagate - Exos X10 10TB 3.5" 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s
Hard Drive
Samsung - 850 Pro 512GB 2.5" SATA III 3D NAND SSD
Optical Drive
Asus - BW-12B1ST 12X SATA CD/DVD/Blu-ray Writer
Power Supply
EVGA - SuperNOVA P2 650W 80+ Platinum Fully Modular
Cooling
Corsair - Hydro H100i Pro Liquid 240mm All-In-One
Cooling
G.Skill - FTB-3500C5-D Turbulence II Memory Fans
Case
Cougar - Panzer Max ATX Full Tower
Operating System
Microsoft - Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
Monitor
Acer - 2x G7 G247HYL 23.8" IPS 4ms 1920 x 1080 60Hz
Keyboard
Cooler Master - MasterKeys Pro S Cherry MX Red w/Ducky Keycaps
Mouse
Logitech - G502 Hero RGB Tunable Gaming
Mousepad
Fellowes - Black w/Microban
Audio
Realtek - ALC1220 - 7.1Ch 32bit/192KHz 120dB SNR HD
Other
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Thrustmaster - T.Flight Stick X Joystick
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Sennheiser - HD 650 LE Massdrop Reference Class Headphones
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Logitech - Z623 200W 2.1Ch THX-Certified Speakers
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Thermal Grizzly - Kryonaut Top Grade Thermal Compound
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Shure - MV5 Professional Quality Condenser Microphone
CPU
Intel - Core i7-7700 3.6GHz 4-Core (4.2GHz Max Boost)
Motherboard
ASRock - Z270M-ITX/ac LGA1151 Intel Mini ITX
RAM
Kingston - HyperX Predator 8GB 2400MHz DDR4 CL12
Hard Drive
ADATA - Premier Pro SP600 64GB 2.5" SSD
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Silverstone - 300W 80+ Bronze Certified SFX
Cooling
Noctua - NH-L9i 33.8 CFM
Case
Cooler Master - Elite 110 Mini ITX
Operating System
pfSense Latest Version
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BenQ - GW2270 21.5" 1920x1080 60Hz
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Qumax - Scorpius V6 Wired Mini
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Last edited by MacG32; 07-11-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 10:35 AM
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I am assuming you completely missed the thread by the Stilt in which the BIOS had to be fixed:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-a...ot-really.html


So much for ASUS' great BIOs.



I can't believe you say the Infineon PWM is overkill when the whole point of a PWM is to modulate current throughout the entire current range. The Crosshair VIII hero has more total powerstages and they are teamed so in essence they are more overkill (while having less VRM cooling no less) if you want to look at it that way.


You can look at every spec on the board and other than LN2 specific overclock features like slow mode , Gigabyte and MSI have outdone ASUS in every department that actually matters for daily users.


1. PCIE 4.0 Storage (the whole point of X570)

2. Cooling --- chipset , power delivery cooling, and fan choice
3. Connectivity --- oh you want WIFI 6+BT on your Crosshair VIII Hero, pay up $20



Anyway if someone is looking to overclock RAM on AM4 the MSI Godlike holds the record for that too and MSI's toppc has been making memory records for the past few years.



The only true reason Crosshair VI Hero was so popular was elmor's support here on OCN and he's no longer with ASUS. Taichi was a stronger board and there's multiple BIOS modders that have stated the Gigabyte K7 needs less ProcODT.



On top of that let us not forget ASUS Armory Crate can be classified as borderline malware (and it was infested in the past) due to pushing files into people's clean Windows installs.

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys. First of all, thank you to all those who took their time to reply and vote, much appreciated! (Cant remember how the rep system works, have to read up on the rules etc before I get into it )

-Hale59
To be honest, the 60 euros for the name feels worth it. When I built my system, both Gigabyte and Asus were the top dogs. I went with Asus for the x58 and never regretted it. The customer service was godike (atleast in Singapore.)

R2E
RMA 1: I killed the board with a ****ty psu and overambitious OC (RMAed, no questions asked)
RMA 2: Dropped two watercooled gpus on the board and broke some caps, again, RMA-ed without questions.

R3E
Ran it for 6 years, fully overclocked during the last 3 years. In the entire 6 years, at most, it was switched off for 10 days. Other than that, the only time it wasnt running was when I had to restart the system due to a windows update. The block was fully water cooled.

It died when I dropped the system . (I absolutely hate to say this, but kinda relieved it finally died, I literally had to oc the i7 965 to its very limits just to not bottleneck the gpu and my SSD speed was being bottlednecked by the board.)



- MacG32 & AlphaC

Man, you guys obviously know a lot about this, would make my life as a newbie so much easier when two experts agree on one thing.

MacG32: Thank you so much for taking your time to explain even though they were already on the internet. The more I read, the more confused I got, especially since Asus seem to be the only one with 2 units per phase?

AlphC:
- Thanks a lot for doing the power phase comparison. I'm proud to say, I understood why you say that the Asus fairs poorly at idle power consumption. (Thanks to bullzoid's video!) Luckily, I'm using a 1200w power supply and I dont pay for electricity. So thats not really a factor for me. But I don't understand why Asus didn't use the Infineon PWM. (Bullzoid was raving about how epic the Infineon PWM was.)

- You mentioned MindFactory right? I just found out about that company from Geihzal, any chance you're German?
If so, do you have any experience with GB's RMA procedure in Germany? I've been here for 3 years and I can honestly say, the general Customer Service here (from DSL operators to immigration officers) is kinda subpar.



appylol:
I get what you mean. The 60 euros price difference is not worth mentioning but I dont want to be blinded by Brand Loyalty. Just 2 weeks ago, I almost bought into Intel's LGA2066 platform, simply because I wanted to use the Rampage VI Extreme Omega. When I think of Gigabyte, all that comes to mind is just a board dipped in blue gunk. They had some of the ugliest x58 boards .

Thats in the past though. Right now, I literally just want the best possible board (other than the stupidly overpriced ones) that will allow me to run the highest end Ryzen 5000 chips (5nm?) in 2021. Heck, if my R3E didnt die, I would have dumped in a Xeon chip and oc-ed the hell out of it. Thats why I'm focusing more on the Power Circuit (PWMS, VRMS, MOsfet? etc), because I want the board to handle the very best Ryzen CPU in 2022.


PS:
There apparently are no more 3900x chips available in Germany... I dont know if this is a blessing in disguise or just my luck. I'll have to wait till atleast 17th for the shop to stock up. Hopefully in the next 2-3 days we'll get some direct comparison reviews once the BIOS's stabilise.

My System
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i7 920 C0 at 4.0ghz
Motherboard
Asus Rampage II Extreme
GPU
Asus 5870 v2 + EK waterblock
GPU
Sapphire 5870
RAM
3x4gb Corsair Dominaor + 3x1 gb Kingston Value Ram
Hard Drive
WD Black
Hard Drive
WD Green x 2
Optical Drive
LG
Power Supply
FSP1200w
Cooling
Apogee GT + EK XTX360 + 4xGentle Typhoon
Case
Lianli PC-70
Operating System
Windows 7 64-bit
Monitor
Acer P203w; BENQ G2411HD
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Logitech G9
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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 12:00 PM
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Not 100% sure in Germany (it probably goes through retailer per https://www.gigabyte.com/eu/Support/Motherboard) but Aorus division has advanced cross-shipping RMA as an option in USA for some of their latest boards. They send you the replacement product and you send back the defective one (https://service.aorus.com/repair.php).

The Aorus promo is mentioned here https://promotion.gigabyte.de/ , it's relatively minor but it's still something

Retailers:
Alternate
Amazon
Caseking
Computer Universe
Cyberport
Mediamarkt Saturn
Mindfactory
Notebooksbilliger

Mindfactory has been open since 2005, so they're a relatively safe bet. (Geizhals is more or less the eurozone version of pcpartpicker.)

I checked computerbase German forums and lately they've been recommending Aorus Elite and MSI B450 Pro Carbon to people so I don't think warranty would be that bad.

If you ARE concerned about budget or memory OC (rather useless past 3600-3733MHz for Zen 2 at the moment), the MSI Ace is coming with MasterLiquid ML240R ARGB AIO coolers for free, which you can either use (I woudn't , especially if you have custom WC stuff already) or make it quite a bit cheaper via reselling the AIO as it's around 100 Euro. This is why I inform people they're better off with the MSI Ace than the "MPG" gaming boards if buying MSI.

https://www.msi.com/Promotion/I-Love-You-3000-AMD/

P.S. the reason Buildzoid raves about the PWM is that it is industry leading and has only been officially out since March 2019: https://www.electronicsweekly.com/ne...1000a-2019-03/, https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/prod...en_Processors/

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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 12:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
I am assuming you completely missed the thread by the Stilt in which the BIOS had to be fixed:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-a...ot-really.html


So much for ASUS' great BIOs.



I can't believe you say the Infineon PWM is overkill when the whole point of a PWM is to modulate current throughout the entire current range. The Crosshair VIII hero has more total powerstages and they are teamed so in essence they are more overkill (while having less VRM cooling no less) if you want to look at it that way.


You can look at every spec on the board and other than LN2 specific overclock features like slow mode , Gigabyte and MSI have outdone ASUS in every department that actually matters for daily users.


1. PCIE 4.0 Storage (the whole point of X570)

2. Cooling --- chipset , power delivery cooling, and fan choice
3. Connectivity --- oh you want WIFI 6+BT on your Crosshair VIII Hero, pay up $20



Anyway if someone is looking to overclock RAM on AM4 the MSI Godlike holds the record for that too and MSI's toppc has been making memory records for the past few years.



The only true reason Crosshair VI Hero was so popular was elmor's support here on OCN and he's no longer with ASUS. Taichi was a stronger board and there's multiple BIOS modders that have stated the Gigabyte K7 needs less ProcODT.



On top of that let us not forget ASUS Armory Crate can be classified as borderline malware (and it was infested in the past) due to pushing files into people's clean Windows installs.
I am also very tempted by the Aorus Master.

But when I learned one thing from x370 Taichi, than that great hardware does not guarantee good operation.
I had to decide between Asrock and Asus for 1st gen x370 and went for Asrock. I am still regretting it until this day.

So believe me when I say I REALLY would like to test the Aorus Master, but in the last several years, I could always rely on Asus - not so much on other brands

Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H, worked, but UEFI was a nightmare, updates were few and far between - got abandoned quite early by gigabyte, still running as a HTPC, though....
Asus Sabertooth Z77 - rock solid, frequent UEFI updates (was it already called UEFI? I believe so), good usability
MSI X99A SLI Krait Edition - beautiful board, workable UEFI, but died in the end - could have been bad luck
Asus X99-A II - granted, 2nd edition X99, but rock solid, reliable UEFI as always, still running in my wifes PC

There were others back in the day, and these past experiences may not translate well into current times, but when I learned one thing, it was that I could always rely on Asus.

The technical side of the Aorus though, just wow..... ...

To add to that: the new UEFI of the gigabyte looks very good and clean (in fact even better than Asus, they really need to clean up their UI), but recreating the UEFI may introduce many new bugs because of the redesign - so it may not only be a good thing.

I am really torn.

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ASRock X370 Taichi
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AMD Vega 64
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32 GB G.Skill 3200C14
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Seasonic SS-660XP Platinum
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Custom water
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HP LP2475w
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Last edited by Spectre73; 07-11-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 01:47 PM
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Unless you need the PCIE 4.0, wifi AX (which you can do your own upgrade with on most wifi mobo's), or 2.5 GB lan (would rather get an acquantia 10G card, or intel), I wouldn't get either and get a Crosshair VII Hero or equivalent. Maybe you want it future proof with PCIE-4, but by the time GPU's require that bandwith, there will be newer faster, cheaper versions and you're not paying the early adopters tax. Next year (2020) will also be the last year, based on their road map, the AM4 socket will be supported by new processors so you're essentially locking in your CPU. Long story short, I'd get the Crosshair VIII, just better luck in 20+ years of builds with Asus motherboards though I fully admit there's an Asus tax, and some of their products are overbuilt and over engineered for what I'm doing. At the same time, they sell well which means quick BIOS updates, great 3rd party support (water cooling), and Asus, IMHO, support their products with drivers and BIOS's longer. I've been able to extend the life of my Crosshair IV with BIOS updates for bulldozer, as ****ty as those processors were. Now I can extend the life of my Crosshair VI with Ryzen 2 (I know most X370's can, but because it was overbuilt, I don't have to worry). Plus I'm lazy and don't want to learn new BIOS menu's.

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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 02:10 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by crazycuz2k View Post
Unless you need the PCIE 4.0, wifi AX (which you can do your own upgrade with on most wifi mobo's), or 2.5 GB lan (would rather get an acquantia 10G card, or intel), I wouldn't get either and get a Crosshair VII Hero or equivalent. Maybe you want it future proof with PCIE-4, but by the time GPU's require that bandwith, there will be newer faster, cheaper versions and you're not paying the early adopters tax. Next year (2020) will also be the last year, based on their road map, the AM4 socket will be supported by new processors so you're essentially locking in your CPU. Long story short, I'd get the Crosshair VIII, just better luck in 20+ years of builds with Asus motherboards though I fully admit there's an Asus tax, and some of their products are overbuilt and over engineered for what I'm doing. At the same time, they sell well which means quick BIOS updates, great 3rd party support (water cooling), and Asus, IMHO, support their products with drivers and BIOS's longer. I've been able to extend the life of my Crosshair IV with BIOS updates for bulldozer, as ****ty as those processors were. Now I can extend the life of my Crosshair VI with Ryzen 2 (I know most X370's can, but because it was overbuilt, I don't have to worry). Plus I'm lazy and don't want to learn new BIOS menu's.
Thank you, I couldn't have said better (I'm not an English speaking individual).

And this is very importand and everybody forgets:"Next year (2020) will also be the last year, based on their road map, the AM4 socket will be supported by new processors so you're essentially locking in your CPU."
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 07:20 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
I am assuming you completely missed the thread by the Stilt in which the BIOS had to be fixed:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-a...ot-really.html


So much for ASUS' great BIOs.



I can't believe you say the Infineon PWM is overkill when the whole point of a PWM is to modulate current throughout the entire current range. The Crosshair VIII hero has more total powerstages and they are teamed so in essence they are more overkill (while having less VRM cooling no less) if you want to look at it that way.


You can look at every spec on the board and other than LN2 specific overclock features like slow mode , Gigabyte and MSI have outdone ASUS in every department that actually matters for daily users.


1. PCIE 4.0 Storage (the whole point of X570)

2. Cooling --- chipset , power delivery cooling, and fan choice
3. Connectivity --- oh you want WIFI 6+BT on your Crosshair VIII Hero, pay up $20



Anyway if someone is looking to overclock RAM on AM4 the MSI Godlike holds the record for that too and MSI's toppc has been making memory records for the past few years.



The only true reason Crosshair VI Hero was so popular was elmor's support here on OCN and he's no longer with ASUS. Taichi was a stronger board and there's multiple BIOS modders that have stated the Gigabyte K7 needs less ProcODT.



On top of that let us not forget ASUS Armory Crate can be classified as borderline malware (and it was infested in the past) due to pushing files into people's clean Windows installs.

GBT_Matthew also seems to be working really hard, I thought he was the one that pushed for the fan stop/ fan speed control update for the X570 GB bios?
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