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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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ASRock vs MSI for 3700x build

I grabbed a MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC and a ASRock X470 Taichi (~ $40 more) but can't decide which one to keep.

I ordered a 3700x and it should hopefully get here this week.

The ASRock board has a better VRM but the MSI board supports USB flashback so I wouldn't have to deal with requesting a loaner chip from AMD. Outside of that they seem fairly similar (same audio chipset, lan chipset, etc) outside of the primary chipset difference.

Was hoping to get some recommendations/advice here for this as I appreciate any input!

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 05:57 PM
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Honestly don't think you can go wrong with either; I have an X470 Taichi and love it (I got it super cheap or I'd still be using a K7), but I doubt you need that much VRM for really anything (a b350 can 'handle' a 3900x and Ryzen CPUs seems to offer minimal headroom with respect to overclocking).

If you don't have any restocking fees, see if the 3700x works with either out of the box and keep that one; otherwise, I'd probably pocket the $40 unless you want to get a 3900x/3950x in the future and OC it.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 06:46 PM
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If you can get the Taichi flashed I would go with that. It's better in terms of other aspects, not just power delivery.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jedi Mind Trick View Post
Honestly don't think you can go wrong with either; I have an X470 Taichi and love it (I got it super cheap or I'd still be using a K7), but I doubt you need that much VRM for really anything (a b350 can 'handle' a 3900x and Ryzen CPUs seems to offer minimal headroom with respect to overclocking).

If you don't have any restocking fees, see if the 3700x works with either out of the box and keep that one; otherwise, I'd probably pocket the $40 unless you want to get a 3900x/3950x in the future and OC it.
Not a bad idea to try both and see what works out of the box. I am hoping for some decent support as far as BIOS updates go. I currently have an Intel Z87 Gigabyte board and didn't even get a full years worth of BIOS updates until it was abandoned.


Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
If you can get the Taichi flashed I would go with that. It's better in terms of other aspects, not just power delivery.
Outside of power delivery, what else is the Taichi superior in? Just trying to make a fair comparison.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:49 PM
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For one it's Asrock's flagship X470 (Taichi Ultimate just adds the 10G LAN and power/reset buttons).
At the power delivery, Asrock has better components across the board (powerstage, inductor, 12K hour Japanese capacitor) and a proper PWM (IR35201) along with the heatpiped heatsink
---> CPU voltage can be adjusted in 0.00625 V step instead of 0.0125 V ; with range 0.90V-2.5V rather than 0.90V-1.55V
---> DRAM voltage can be adjusted in 0.005 V step instead of 0.01 V

Taichi has an external base clock gen
Taichi generally overclocked 4 DIMMs higher to 3533MHz or so despite T-topology
Taichi has more rear USB 3.0 ports as well as front panel USB 3.1 gen 2
Taichi has more SATA ports (8 instead of 4)
Taichi has clear CMOs button and debug LED
Taichi has 2x PCI 3.0 slots
Taichi has SLI support
The wifi antenna is placed in a better spot (up top) rather than mid board at the IO panel , although it is a slower WIFI solution (433Mbps rather than 1.73Gbps as on the Taichi Ultimate)
Asrock's audio solution has a NE5532 amp
Taichi has a 256MB BIOS chip

Don't get me wrong, the B450 Pro Carbon is the best B450 board. That's mainly because the other B450 offerings are really cut down. At the $160 market price you're not saving much by going with it though , when it was $120-130 and X470 boards were $220ish then there was a large savings that let people go from Ryzen 5 chips to Ryzen 7 chips. At $100 the Tomahawk loses the Intel LAN + ALC1220 (drops to ALC892 without TOSLINK) + WIFI on top of also dropping some other features such as M.2 heatshield, A-RGB and the Displayport. I don't think MSI will be as generous with the B550 Pro Carbon this time around, they'll probably slash the LAN and/or WIFI if not the audio to save their low end X470/X570 boards.

The B350 to B450 change was mainly a power delivery change from B350 Pro Carbon to B450 Pro Carbon: MSI went from some of the cheapest NIKOS mosfets possible to Onsemi mosfets on par with the powerblocks in terms of RDS(on) although the high side fet didn't see decisive gains in terms of switch times. The VRM heatsink was changed from a carbon fiber overlay to a extended heatsink design. In addition, the B350 Pro Carbon didn't have WIFI+BT or Displayport , M.2 SSD placement was shoddier, and the lower half of the board was extremely empty of PCIE slots.

It's too late to look at the Taichi now, it is now back to ~$200ish.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
For one it's Asrock's flagship X470 (Taichi Ultimate just adds the 10G LAN and power/reset buttons).
At the power delivery, Asrock has better components across the board (powerstage, inductor, 12K hour Japanese capacitor) and a proper PWM (IR35201) along with the heatpiped heatsink
---> CPU voltage can be adjusted in 0.00625 V step instead of 0.0125 V ; with range 0.90V-2.5V rather than 0.90V-1.55V
---> DRAM voltage can be adjusted in 0.005 V step instead of 0.01 V

Taichi has an external base clock gen
Taichi generally overclocked 4 DIMMs higher to 3533MHz or so despite T-topology
Taichi has more rear USB 3.0 ports as well as front panel USB 3.1 gen 2
Taichi has more SATA ports (8 instead of 4)
Taichi has clear CMOs button and debug LED
Taichi has 2x PCI 3.0 slots
Taichi has SLI support
The wifi antenna is placed in a better spot (up top) rather than mid board at the IO panel , although it is a slower WIFI solution (433Mbps rather than 1.73Gbps as on the Taichi Ultimate)
Asrock's audio solution has a NE5532 amp
Taichi has a 256MB BIOS chip

Don't get me wrong, the B450 Pro Carbon is the best B450 board. That's mainly because the other B450 offerings are really cut down. At the $160 market price you're not saving much by going with it though , when it was $120-130 and X470 boards were $220ish then there was a large savings that let people go from Ryzen 5 chips to Ryzen 7 chips. At $100 the Tomahawk loses the Intel LAN + ALC1220 (drops to ALC892 without TOSLINK) + WIFI on top of also dropping some other features such as M.2 heatshield, A-RGB and the Displayport. I don't think MSI will be as generous with the B550 Pro Carbon this time around, they'll probably slash the LAN and/or WIFI if not the audio to save their low end X470/X570 boards.

The B350 to B450 change was mainly a power delivery change from B350 Pro Carbon to B450 Pro Carbon: MSI went from some of the cheapest NIKOS mosfets possible to Onsemi mosfets on par with the powerblocks in terms of RDS(on) although the high side fet didn't see decisive gains in terms of switch times. The VRM heatsink was changed from a carbon fiber overlay to a extended heatsink design. In addition, the B350 Pro Carbon didn't have WIFI+BT or Displayport , M.2 SSD placement was shoddier, and the lower half of the board was extremely empty of PCIE slots.

It's too late to look at the Taichi now, it is now back to ~$200ish.
Wow I appreciate all of that, extremely helpful and informative.

I was able to grab the B450 PRO Carbon for $130 and the X470 Taichi for $170 last week. I didn't really want to go through the AMD loaner process but I think you just sold me on the Taichi!

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I was looking at both the MSI-Gaming and Asrock subreddits and overall, the BIOS situation on B450/X470 boards just seems to be a mess no matter which way you go.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 12:58 PM
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X470 Taichi has 256Mb BIOS chip , B450 Pro Carbon has 128Mb so that's why the MSI boards needed to cut down their Click BIOS to "GSE Lite".




I've seen people running Ryzen 3rd gen on X370 Taichi as well as X470.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
X470 Taichi has 256Mb BIOS chip , B450 Pro Carbon has 128Mb so that's why the MSI boards needed to cut down their Click BIOS to "GSE Lite".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_elcRHeVjI


I've seen people running Ryzen 3rd gen on X370 Taichi as well as X470.
I was reading something about that. From my understanding though the "GSE Lite" only affects the features you can have not the overall stability of the system though, right?

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 04:31 PM
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There's people complaining about it since some fringe features are missing such as RAID (on a B450 board I don't think that's a large issue). In addition the interface has most if not all the bloat removed, which includes all the dragon pictures and imagery (those require more space on the BIOS chip). It also removes support for old Athlon X4 Bristol Ridge chips, but I doubt anyone buying a B450 gaming branded board is purchasing those.


Stability has yet to be seen, I suspect some people with issues were using the recently pulled 1.0.0.3 ABA BIOSes.

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