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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 06:52 AM
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In HWInfo the one to watch is labeled CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN).

I updated the BIOS using M-Flash with a 1000 series CPU i have. And I've reset CMOS several times, some using the battery pull method. I've tried enabling everything I can in BIOS, changing things from AUTO to ENABLED, etc. but nothing works. It just won't 'boost' higher than 3.775 Ghz. Even trying PBO does nothing (but reviewers say it's very limited anyway). Turning on Game Boost results in almost instant crash in a benchmark as voltage is staying really low. It can't be temps as I'm using a 240mm AIO and when I manually overclock it to 4.150 Ghz and running RealBench stress test it never gets above 70 C and when idling about in Windows and web browsing it's in the mid and low 30's.

I'm stumped. It's probably the BIOS, I hope at least. They're really buggy right now. But I think I'll return this 3600 and get a 3700X as the better IPC and clock speed (at 4.15G) doesn't seem to replace those two cores/4 threads I had in the 1700 before.
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 12:58 PM
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SVI2 TFN and the individually displayed voltages are pretty much identical for me, generally speaking. And yeah, the issue sounds really weird. Do you have any USB or PCIe cards plugged in that you could remove? Otherwise I'm out of ideas. :-)

The 3700X is pretty nice. I'm coming from an i5 Haswell, so a big jump in MT performance and a decent ST one. I wanted to get the 12 core, just because and the higher single core boost. But that thing is out of stock everywhere, only listing I've seen available in the last week was a 600€ one (530€ MSRP). I didn't want to wait that long and didn't want to pay that much. I don't do a lot of serious work, the most intensive thing is some blu ray ripping and encoding. So probably the 6 core would have been more economical. But the extra 140€ seemed like a good investment into some more performance and multi tasking abilities. :-)
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 04:15 PM
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Only PCIe card is the GPU, and USB devices are keyboard/mouse. One external hard drive for backups but in our out no difference.

I wound up taking the 3600 back to Microcenter and getting a 3700X instead. I didn't realize just how much those two extra cores help with encoding. That 3600 as a lot more like a side-grade from the 1700 it replaced. But also, I think Intel is gonna follow along with more cores and threads in desktop processors. So what that will mean is developers will increase use of threads so best to have more.

You're running on a B450 Mortar? what version BIOS are you on? The latest release is 1.80 from the support web site, that's what I have. The 3700X acts the same as the 3600 before: so no boosting when on defaults (auto) and the highest frequency it gets to is 3775 Ghz. So I all-core overclocked to 4.25 Ghz and it's just fine. I think it could do more but I have to increase voltage and it will get hot.

I just hope AMD is working on more AGESA fixes so we'll get BIOS updates.
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Still have problems OCing the 2600 on the b450 pro carbon. I set the manual voltage to 1.35v, multiplier to 41, and reactivate cool'n quiet. It drops clocks as it should, but it doesn't drops the voltage as expected, since manual voltage.

If i do the same but with offset voltage, doesn't do anything. It just applyes the voltage like on auto, and while clocks do drop, the voltage stays static like when you set it manually. Only this time around sits at 1.45 instead of 1.35v.

Do you guys know if Windows power plan have a saying in all of this? I mean i know the power management max and min has, but.....

I'm using the balanced (recommended) with 5% and 100%, tryed the AMD ryzen balanced, but still, offset voltage doesn't seem to work. I'm on 7b85v16. It's from 6 of march.

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Last edited by Shenhua; 07-28-2019 at 03:41 AM.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 03:14 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by buddywh View Post
You're running on a B450 Mortar? what version BIOS are you on? The latest release is 1.80 from the support web site, that's what I have. The 3700X acts the same as the 3600 before: so no boosting when on defaults (auto) and the highest frequency it gets to is 3775 Ghz. So I all-core overclocked to 4.25 Ghz and it's just fine. I think it could do more but I have to increase voltage and it will get hot.
Yeah, B450M Morta on the latest 1.80 AGESA 3ab BIOS. You don't have some plan plan where you set the max CPU is set to 99% by any chance? Because I did play with those a bit, since the chipset drivers installed some AMD Ryzen custom ones. And setting the CPU power to 99% made it clock to just 3.6 GHz or thereabouts. That reminds me, any chance you can fire up a Linux live distribution and check what happens there?

@Shenhua: The only thing about that setup I know is from Buildzoid videos. He has one where he does PBO overclocking with manual voltage offset on the B450M Mortar Titanium
. His idle voltages aren't below 1.3V, his single core turbo load voltages are about 1.45V and his multi core turbo load voltages are about 1.312V. And I've read that a fixed multiplier isn't the best way to overclock on Ryzen 2000, unless all you need is the multi core performance. Doing PBO and voltage offset should give you the best of MT and ST performance for not that great an increase in power consumption and heat output. I hope this helps a bit.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 05:35 AM
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@Shenhua : With the 1700 on my Mortar I had to keep Cool'n'Quiet DISABLED or it would run the CPU at a really low maximum clock speed whenever I manually set an overclock. What I'd do is set the clock speed, then set an over-ride voltage to what it needed, then C'nQ disabled and CStates ENABLED (not auto) and it would throttle voltages so it idled at a real low voltages even though the clock speed was always at the high overclock. Power useage dropped and it was low temp's. But that's a Mortar and a 1700...it might be different on yours and a 2600. 2600 (non-X) version don't PBO overclock very well as I understand...it's the 'X' chips that have the extra PB2 headroom that PBO exploits.

@DeathAngel : I don't have Linux distro's. Have never gotten into that, sorry. If you're using that then maybe this is my problem: my Windows power plans might be messed up and keeping the processor throttled. I installed new AMD chipset drivers which included the new power plans for Zen2 but Window's always has it's own ideas about things. I'm thinking it may be time for a 'clean install' of Windows.
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 09:49 AM
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Quick update...I found what I was doing wrong. I have to DISABLE cool-n-quiet. I was leaving it on AUTO and only tested ENABLE as an option! I wonder if that's the same on other B450 boards...curious.

But oh, the volts. I could get 4.250 Ghz on about 1.35 volts but when it's boosting to 4.3-4.375Ghz it's giving itself 1.45 and up to 1.5 volts! I'm not at all certain that's gonna be good long-term. But I also don't want to dial in a negative offset because that lowers actual performance (as reported by Steve at GN).

I have to think AMD knows what they're doing though. If they come out with an updated AGESA with boosting algorithm using lower volts I'll be sure to update, but for now this seems to work pretty well.

EDIT: based on u/AMD_Robert on Reddit, yes it's perfectly normal for volts to go as high as 1.5 while boosting so I'll stop bothering. But then we'll be learning more in a few days too...

Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
....
Robert Hallock is supposedly posting an update on July 30th : https://old.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...destiny_2_and/

Last edited by buddywh; 07-28-2019 at 01:18 PM.
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 02:16 PM
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@buddywh : Seems like we have our system react similarly now. But I can have CnQ enabled and get normal boosting behaviour. The results seem the same though.

7nm is definitely a funky beast with the voltages. I still haven't touched any of the OC dials because it seems pretty much maxed out already and I'm waiting for another BIOS update or two and some more experiences from actual people and not just the LN2 youtube crowd.

Dialing in my RAM though. Bought some 2x16GB HyperX Kingston 3200C18 from Amazon, since they were available for next day delivery, cheap (175€) and seemed like decent overclockers at 3200 CL18 with 1.2V, even got a Micron E-die kit. Hoping for the DRAM calculator tomorrow with Zen2 support. So far I'm at 3600 MHz, CL16, 18, 22, 19. tRAS 37, TRC 62, tRFC 556 and the rest on auto with suboptimal timings, Voltag is 1.37V. ProcODT 53.3 ohm, RttNom disabled, RttWr 80 ohm and RttPark 240 ohm and can't budge (no startup). Got those settings from the current DRAM Calc and some screenshots. I envy those 3600C14 people, but I guess they paid an arm a leg for the RAM. I'd rather have 32GB with some looser timings myself.
I'm really happy I modded the IO plate with a clear CMOS button. And it's really crappy that the B450M Mortar lite BIOS does not have save profiles (maybe implement it with a USB stick?) and it doesn't recover from wrong RAM settings like other, more OC oriented boards I've used in the past where they loaded defaults when it didn't start up for a few tries. Oh well, the failing of mATX. Btw those settings still aren't rock solid, getting errors in Karhu RAM Test at about 1000%. Using that before switching to HCI Memtest pro because it seems a bit faster so far. Currently playing with SoC and VDDP/VDDG voltages. If everything fails I'll dial it back down to 3533 MHz and see what timings I can run. This is more testing for an overclock than I had to do since the i7-860 with base clock overclocking. That things destroyed my windows install a few times, that hasn't happened so far.

Case: Jonsbo U3 mATX - modded with two front intake 120 mm fans
Mainboard: AsRock X570M Pro4, AGESA 1.0.0.3ABBA
CPU: Ryzen 7 3700x PBO @ Dark Rock Pro 3
RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT red 4 x 16GB 3000C15 @ 3800C16
Graphicscard: Zotac RTX 2070 Mini @ 1875 MHz @ 925 mV
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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by buddywh View Post
@Shenhua : With the 1700 on my Mortar I had to keep Cool'n'Quiet DISABLED or it would run the CPU at a really low maximum clock speed whenever I manually set an overclock. What I'd do is set the clock speed, then set an over-ride voltage to what it needed, then C'nQ disabled and CStates ENABLED (not auto) and it would throttle voltages so it idled at a real low voltages even though the clock speed was always at the high overclock. Power useage dropped and it was low temp's. But that's a Mortar and a 1700...it might be different on yours and a 2600. 2600 (non-X) version don't PBO overclock very well as I understand...it's the 'X' chips that have the extra PB2 headroom that PBO exploits.
Tnx for the idea. Doesn't work on 2600.

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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 09:50 AM
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@DeathAngel : I've been fiddling with some overclocks. I can get PBO to give me CB20 scores similar to or better than Steve got in his HWUnboxed 3700X review on YT. So I think I'm on the right track...but the volts! Still,everything I'm reading is we shouldn't worry as it's considered normal behaviour to jump up to 1.5V and when in idle it's really low (1V or less) in CPU-Z.

I've played with manual OC - 4.25 is the highest I tried and it gives really great CB20 MT scores but truely tanks the ST. If you do anything that's gaming, just use PBO with a little scalar increase so it doesn't hurt lightly threaded gaming loads. All-core productivity and content creation probably a manual OC.

But watch temp's! That 4.25 OC is RealBench stable but totally not P95 small FFT...it zooms temp and crashes right off. And even in the PBO; temp would climb right up to the 90+ internal throttle when trying a small FFT. So I set a thermal throttle for PBO to 80C but most things (like RealBench stress or CB20) run only in the low-mid 70C range. I'm using a 240mm AIO for cooling. I leave it [email protected] all night with no issues and temps never exceed 70C.

BTW: with PBO and a 10X scalar setting the 3700X on the Mortar gives a CB20 score of 509 ST and 5040 MT. That's right up there with what I see these X570 CH VIII's getting. Not shabby for a cheap little b450 mATX LOL.

I'm come to realize it's not really the peak clock speed that matters so much as the sustained clock speed over duration of a long workload. That's hard to gauge just looking at HWInfo screens.

Last edited by buddywh; 07-29-2019 at 09:54 AM.
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