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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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MSI b450 and X470 budget boards thread.

There's a **** load of ppl with b450m mortar, tomahawk, b450 pro carbon and some of the sub $150 x470 ones. Considering the offset voltage and LLC problems these boards make, it's beyond me why nobody talks about them.

So this thread is for that.

I have a b450 pro carbon. Best board, full bios, except almost nothing works in the BIOS......

I'm on v16, and offset voltage seems to be just for show, and the LLC on level 1 (the most aggressive) it gives an extra 0.006v over the BIOS vcore.

I have a ryzen 2600. Static overclock it's my only option with this setup?.......It makes 4.1ghz with bellow 1.35, but i dont like keeping the voltage constantly that high. What are my options?

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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 01:32 PM
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Use Ryzen Master. Also for R5 2600 static overclock isn't too bad since it doesn't boost over 3.9GHz officially and most 2nd gen chips overclock to 4.1-4.2GHz without issue.


See: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...5-2600/16.html


It shouldn't be a VRM temp issue as R7 2700X @ 4.2GHz was 74°C: https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/...on_ac_review/3


With Prime95 on R7 2700X:
Quote: Originally Posted by https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/msi-b450-gaming-pro-carbon-ac,6006-3.html
Leaving all the other settings alone, we actually hit 4125MHz running at a maximum MOSFET temperature of 83C and reported Tdie of approximately 84C during our 8-hour-long long Prime95 torture run.

With 4.3GHz R5 2600X , 3466MHz RAM divider = 48.5°C: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/m...bon-ac/14.html



Quote: Originally Posted by https://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_b450_gaming_pro_carbon_ac_review,6.html
We aimed for 4.35GHz at first, which is a known quantity on our Ryzen 7 2700X, which we managed on the MSI X470 Gaming M7 AC.

Unfortunately, even pushing 1.45v through the CPU, we couldn’t get 4.35GHz to be stable. So we backed down to 1.42v again and tried for 4.30GHz.
P.S. the reason you're likely to see more Voltage boost with high LLC is the PWM controller is running 2 sets of mosfets per phase.


edit: also Ryzen 3rd gen support
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Last edited by AlphaC; 07-24-2019 at 01:21 PM.
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
Use Ryzen Master. Also for R5 2600 static overclock isn't too bad since it doesn't boost over 3.9GHz officially and most 2nd gen chips overclock to 4.1-4.2GHz without issue.


See: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...5-2600/16.html


It shouldn't be a VRM temp issue as R7 2700X @ 4.2GHz was 74°C: https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/...on_ac_review/3


With Prime95 on R7 2700X:


With 4.3GHz R5 2600X , 3466MHz RAM divider = 48.5°C: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/m...bon-ac/14.html





P.S. the reason you're likely to see more Voltage boost with high LLC is the PWM controller is running 2 sets of mosfets per phase.


edit: also Ryzen 3rd gen support
What about p-state overclocking. Does it work on ryzen? and, is it worth it?
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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 02:36 PM
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P-state is only applicable for 1st gen because clocks dropped immensely when the CPU loaded over 4 threads. For 2nd gen you want to use PBO on R7 2700X (since max boost > 4.2GHz) while for a R7 2700 / R5 2600 you can easily hit 4.1-4.2GHz so you're better off manual OC-ing.

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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
P-state is only applicable for 1st gen because clocks dropped immensely when the CPU loaded over 4 threads. For 2nd gen you want to use PBO on R7 2700X (since max boost > 4.2GHz) while for a R7 2700 / R5 2600 you can easily hit 4.1-4.2GHz so you're better off manual OC-ing.
So what would you do if you were me? Manual OC and leave it static constant 4.1ghz 1.33-35v or use ryzen master?

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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 05:24 PM
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It's only 100% static clocks if you turn off AMD "Cool n Quiet" in BIOS , otherwise it'll still drop at idle. If you use a static overclock what will happen is it won't downclock at all (i.e. from 3.9GHz to ~3.8) except during idle.


Ryzen Master will overclock it statically as well if you use the all core overclocking option.


If your BIOS is buggy then use Ryzen Master. Since you're using 2nd gen Ryzen there should be no issues: the issues people are reporting are mostly 3rd gen chips on newer BIOSes.

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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
It's only 100% static clocks if you turn off AMD "Cool n Quiet" in BIOS , otherwise it'll still drop at idle. If you use a static overclock what will happen is it won't downclock at all (i.e. from 3.9GHz to ~3.8) except during idle.


Ryzen Master will overclock it statically as well if you use the all core overclocking option.


If your BIOS is buggy then use Ryzen Master. Since you're using 2nd gen Ryzen there should be no issues: the issues people are reporting are mostly 3rd gen chips on newer BIOSes.
Ok, so tldr, i see now that cool'n quiet was getting disabled everytime i was setting manually the multiplier and the voltage.

I activated the cool'n quiet function, the CPU downclocks properly, but the voltage is static. It's because i set it to override right? Instead i should've left it on auto and use the offset right?

Question 2: Let's asume my offset voltage it's broken. If i leave the voltage on auto pushing 4.1ghz, the mobo goes crazy and it spits 1.45v. How much should i set the offset voltage to stay around 1.33-1.35 during load?
I just want a reference not an exact number. I understand testing by me it's completly obligatory. But i wanna know some numbers to have a reference, because i think the offset voltage, either it doesn't work, either it doesn't work as it should.

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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 10:14 AM
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Just some quick thoughts from my first day with a Ryzen 3700x on my MSI B450M Mortar and 2x16GB ECC RAM.

BIOS flashback worked well, although it took a long time (several minutes at least). Could also have been the anticipation and worry playing tricks on me. I had the CPU and RAM already installed.
Everything on auto and CnQ enable and the CPU can draw up to 1.5V when pushing the single core clock to 4.375 GHz. All core boost of 3.975 GHz sees a voltage of about 1.28V. Temperature with my Dark Rock Pro 3 is never over 72°C with a few runs of Cinebench so far. The lowest idle clock I've seen is 2.9 GHz but there are 0.2V idle voltages recorded for HWinfo64, so I guess it works. It's tought getting an actual idle system these days.

ECC UDIMM memory works, but does not run in ECC mode. I think I'll send it back and get a normal 32 GB KIT. Or does anyone have any tricks getting ECC mode working on MSI boards with the new BIOS? Maybe I can sideload ECC support from another motherboard with a BIOS mod?
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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DeathAngel View Post
... can draw up to 1.5V when pushing the single core clock to 4.375 GHz. A....
What are you using to read volts? The correct voltage is only reported by HWInfo...even RyzenMaster reports it wrong on my Mortar.

Also, when you say you 'pushed 4.375G single core clocks' how did you do that? I have a 3600 on my B450 Mortar and I can't get any clocks over 3.775G unless I manually overclock all core to 4.15. 4.2 is feasible but voltage would have to be around 1.47 (but dropping to 1.41-1.42 under all core load).

I'm not sure what's wrong, when everything's in default / AUTO the voltage stays extremely low: around 1.125-1.137 max. I feel that's why the core boost doesn't work as it needs more voltage but I don't know how to increase it since even if I push it up with manual over-ride or with offset it still won't boost.

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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 03:25 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by buddywh View Post
What are you using to read volts? The correct voltage is only reported by HWInfo...even RyzenMaster reports it wrong on my Mortar.

Also, when you say you 'pushed 4.375G single core clocks' how did you do that? I have a 3600 on my B450 Mortar and I can't get any clocks over 3.775G unless I manually overclock all core to 4.15. 4.2 is feasible but voltage would have to be around 1.47 (but dropping to 1.41-1.42 under all core load).
I am using HWinfo64 (the only all around tool I trust) to get that reading. And as for the clocks, it's just PB2 doing it's thing. I've activated all standard features I saw in the BIOS (not sure the names, Cool and Quiet, Core Boost and the likes) but not touched the PBO, power, amp settings. So this should be "stock" according to AMD. All core boost is about 4 GHz, give or take 50 MHz depending on temperatures, and 1.2V, which seems totally fine. 90W package power on the dot.

Normal windows "idle" (which really isn't idle anymore), clocks are between 3.4 GHz at around 0.92V and 4.375 GHz at mentioned 1.494 / 1.5 V. HWinfo64 also logged some 0.2V like der8auer said, which corresponds to cores doing 2.88 GHz. I read that lower clocks aren't logged, since that would wake up the parked cores and get them to high power consumption again. So that 0.2V figure might be 500 MHz for all I know. This is definitely a different idle/boost behaviour than I was accustomed to from my Intel (i7-860 and i7-4770K / i5-4570S), but so far it doesn't seem broken. Maybe that 1.5V seems a tad high. When I get some new RAM today, I'll try and tinker some more with offset or fixed voltage. It's a shame that I have to log performance with that as well, since there can be performance regression while the voltage and clock speeds remain normal/good.

It definitely seems like something isn't quite correct with your settings. Have you done a BIOS reset, yet? I think the settings I have were pretty much out of the box like this. When I get the new RAM (hopefully later today) I'll try some screenshots or pictures of the OC menu. :-)
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