ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme experience & discussion thread - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme experience & discussion thread

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post #11 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 11:15 AM
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Bought one just 10 mins ago!

[BTW thank you very much! You remebered me i'm able to buy from other EU countries'a amazon withouth any fee... i was going crazy seraching one for a reasonable price and being able to recive it in normal time in Italy.. and anyhow "Sold and Shipped by amazon" is a guarantee itself.. rather than have to deal with,scary, 3dy part sellers..]


Now, considering this is my first time ever with amd, i'd love if somene could fill in the blanks:

1) At the moment i have 3000Mhz memories: 4x 16gb Corsair Dominator platinum.
Should i change them? I mean, i keep reading Ryzens work better with high frequency memories.. obviously i can overclock theam a littel more but i honestly don't like to push memories to
the max .. i doubt i'd ever be confortable with 3000 named rams pushed to 4000 for a dailly,,,just saying..


2) Could you kindly suggest me a coule of M.2 to mount on this build [M.2 is another thing i'm noob with.. never had one. I'm getting old boyz, this one colud be my last hi end pc ever, so please... suggest me sothing stunning].

Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.

Last edited by 4lek; 12-07-2019 at 11:25 AM.
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post #12 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 4lek View Post
Bought one just 10 mins ago!

[BTW thank you very much! You remebered me i'm able to buy from other EU countries'a amazon withouth any fee... i was going crazy seraching one for a reasonable price and being able to recive it in normal time in Italy.. and anyhow "Sold and Shipped by amazon" is a guarantee itself.. rather than have to deal with,scary, 3dy part sellers..]


Now, considering this is my first time ever with amd, i'd love if somene could fill in the blanks:

1) At the moment i have 3000Mhz memories: 4x 16gb Corsair Dominator platinum.
Should i change them? I mean, i keep reading Ryzens work better with high frequency memories.. obviously i can overclock theam a littel more but i honestly don't like to push memories to
the max .. i doubt i'd ever be confortable with 3000 named rams pushed to 4000 for a dailly,,,just saying..


2) Could you kindly suggest me a coule of M.2 to mount on this build [M.2 is another thing i'm noob with.. never had one. I'm getting old boyz, this one colud be my last hi end pc ever, so please... suggest me sothing stunning].

The ideal speed for ryzen 3rd Gen seems to be 3600, and, if achievable.. Cl14. For this you need either Samsung b-dies or Micron-E chips.

Corsair sells memory with Samsung b-dies (as do Gskill and many others) , but it's a guessing game on the lower speed kits. For guaranteed bdie you need something like 3200 cl14 kit, or 3600 c16. But do pay attention to sub timings, b-die kits usually have sub timings in par with the first one, like.. CL14-14-14-34... Or buy something 3800 and above, that is guaranteed bdie. You can also use this website for some help:
https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/

The alternative would be Crucial Ballistix Elite, 3600 or 4000. Those are guaranteed Micron-E and have great compatibility with Ryzen.

You don't need to change your kit, but you can get a decent boost in performance with a better one with the improvements in timings mostly, some applications are very sensitive to lower timings.

M.2 SSDs.. Samsung 970 EVO Plus is the most universal agreed suggestion. Sabrent is the cheaper alternative.

If you want to try something pci-e gen4.. You can try:
Corsair MP600 Gen4
Gigabyte Aorus Gen4
Sabrent Rocket Gen4

Last edited by The L33t; 12-07-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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post #13 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 04:16 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by The L33t View Post

M.2 SSDs.. Samsung 970 EVO Plus is the most universal agreed suggestion. Sabrent is the cheaper alternative.

If you want to try something pci-e gen4.. You can try:
Corsair MP600 Gen4
Gigabyte Aorus Gen4
Sabrent Rocket Gen4
Am i free to mount a gen 4 and a gen 3 right?

Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.
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post #14 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 04:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 4lek View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by The L33t View Post

M.2 SSDs.. Samsung 970 EVO Plus is the most universal agreed suggestion. Sabrent is the cheaper alternative.

If you want to try something pci-e gen4.. You can try:
Corsair MP600 Gen4
Gigabyte Aorus Gen4
Sabrent Rocket Gen4
Am i free to mount a gen 4 and a gen 3 right?
Right.
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post #15 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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3rd gen. Threadripper CPUs have a power management related quirk, which we should discuss about.

Unlike the 3rd gen. Ryzen AM4 CPUs, 3rd gen. TR CPUs do not use telemetry for their power management related decisions.
AM4 CPUs base their decisions (i.e. know their current power consumption) on the current & voltage telemetry (SVI2 TFN), sourced from the motherboard VRM controller.

Meanwhile on the 3rd gen. Threadripper CPUs, this is not the case.
Instead of relying on external telemetry, the power management decisions are based solely on internal calculations (voltage, frequency, utilisation, etc).
I'm not sure what are the reasons behind this configuration, but I'd expect it to have something to do with TRs close relation to Rome EPYC (which uses cLDOs for the main planes) or possibly to
the limitations of the AMD SVI2 standard itself.

In practice, this can affect the users in couple different ways. In my case, even at stock, the power consumption seen by the CPUs power management is slightly inflated, roughly by 6-11% (depending on the workload).
Because the CPU is pegged against the default 280W power limit in most properly multithreaded workloads, this means that some performance is lost.

Granted, the CPU I'm using is an engineering sample so the inflated power reporting at stock can be an ES related anomaly which sometimes do exist.

However, the next issue will affect anyone how has plans to undervolt the CPU. While undervolting 3rd gen. Ryzens generally isn't recommended, at least in my case there is a ~ -50mV undervolting margin to be had, without any performance penalty in any workload.
The issue with this internal power management mode with undervolting is, that unlike with telemetry the CPU cannot "see" it. Despite the undervolting the CPU still calculates the voltage based on its internal targets / models and doesn't acknowledge that the voltage has reduced.
Because of that, the power consumption seen by the CPU doesn't change either. There will usually be a small performance boost from undervolting, but thats due to the lowered temperature and nothing else.

Here is an example:

This is at stock, with the default 280W PPT, 215A TDC and 300A EDC limits. PPT and EDC are constantly pegged to their limits.
Despite the PPT is reading ~ 280W constantly during the workload, the actual measured power consumption for the whole package is 263.178W on average.
The average CPU voltage is 1.15516V.




Now, everything else remains identical, but a negative offset of 50mV has been applied for the CPU.
The average, actual power consumption has reduced to 243.809W, yet the CPUs power management still sees the same power draw as before.
You can also see that the CPU voltage has also reduced to 1.11357V and that the CPU temperature has reduced by 3.25°C.



Reducing the CPU voltage by -50mV improved CB20 NT performance by ~ 40, which is far less than expected improvement. In this case the improvement is solely
caused by the lowered temperature (which the CPU acknowledges).

So how to get the full advantage of undervolting then?
As I've said before, the most recent version of HWInfo has complete support for Zenith II Extreme.
Since it is able to report the output currents and powers for both of the domains accurately, you can make adjustments based on the observed delta.
Prior undervolting, write up the averages of "CPU Core Power (SVI2 TFN)" and "CPU Core Current (SVI2 TFN)" during a sustained and stable workload (e.g. 5 minutes of Blender).
Apply the undervolt and repeat the same procedure for these two values.

When you have both sets of these values, go to the "Precision Boost Override" menu in the bios and select "Manual".
The new PPT limit will be 280W + the difference between the stock and undervolted "CPU Core Power (SVI2 TFN)" power. TDC will be 215A + the difference between the stock and the undervolted "CPU Core Current (SVI2 TFN)".
EDC can be set to reflect the same percentual difference as TDC was increased by, added to the default 300A value. PBO Scalar should be manually set to 1x to avoid it changing from the stock, when manual PBO mode is used.

So in my case, the power consumption of the CPU cores themselves (CR Pout) reduced 197.329W to 178.302W (19.027W) and the current for the CPU cores (CR Iout) reduced from 170.813A to 160.329A (10.484A).
Hence, my new PPT limit became 299W (instead of 280W), TDC limit became 226A (instead of 215A) and EDC limit became 315A (300 * (226/215)).

Doing the whisky-tango calibration described above, Cinebench R20 NT score improved by ~300pts with the -50mV undervolt, while maintaining pretty much the same power consumption as stock.
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post #16 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 04:09 PM
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What do u guys think Zenith IIvs the Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme ?

I'm leaning towards the Gigabyte because it has an overall better feature set.

Intel dual 10g lan (not aquantia + 1gig)
True 16 phase controller
Better pcie slot layout I'll be using all slots.

For the Zenith
Dimm.2
Better nvme drive pcie layout ( I'll be using min 4 m.2 )

Better looks wise.
Asus bios vs giga.
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post #17 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 10:30 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by nyxagamemnon View Post
What do u guys think Zenith IIvs the Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme ?

I'm leaning towards the Gigabyte because it has an overall better feature set.

Intel dual 10g lan (not aquantia + 1gig)
True 16 phase controller
Better pcie slot layout I'll be using all slots.

For the Zenith
Dimm.2
Better nvme drive pcie layout ( I'll be using min 4 m.2 )

Better looks wise.
Asus bios vs giga.
Asus bios is 10x better than..well anything else..
Now, it could be just me, so let say IMHO.. still..it's better. Period

That being said, those cards are both beasts,you can't go wrong.
My suggestion is to consider which hw feature is more usefull for you now and in teh next future.

Persanoally i have gone for asus because the bios.It's good,it's intuitive, it makes me feel at home ,i'm using it from 10 years on my own main pc now... but that's me.

Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.
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post #18 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 06:00 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 4lek View Post
Asus bios is 10x better than..well anything else..
Now, it could be just me, so let say IMHO.. still..it's better. Period

That being said, those cards are both beasts,you can't go wrong.
My suggestion is to consider which hw feature is more usefull for you now and in teh next future.

Persanoally i have gone for asus because the bios.It's good,it's intuitive, it makes me feel at home ,i'm using it from 10 years on my own main pc now... but that's me.
I've been using Asus boards for along time as well but I don't know I really dislike the aquantia 10g on the multiple rampage boards the original extreme and Omega they tend to cause random issues like upload speeds going to nothing and forcing me to disable and reenable the nic in Windows to fix it. I've got both boards but I guess I'll find out once I can actually get a cpu!!
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post #19 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-12-2019, 08:22 AM
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This board has a total of 5 M.2 slots. That's 2 or 3 more than other boards. How are the M.2 PCIE lanes fed?

From the Manual I can see:

Dimm.2 1: No Impact
Dimm.2 2: No Impact
M.2_1 (PCIE Slot Area Upper): No Impact
M.2_2 (PCIE Slot Area Lower): PCIE X16_4 will run at 4X mode
M.2_3 (Behind Motherboard): SATA6G_E1-E4 will be disabled

From the AMD block diagram, I can see we have provisions for two M.2 from the CPU, and potentially two feeding from the TRX40 Chipset. The M.2_3 is clearly fed from the TRX40 Chipset but it's not clear where the other M.2 slots are being fed from.
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post #20 of 195 (permalink) Old 12-13-2019, 12:23 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by SuprPwrUsr View Post
This board has a total of 5 M.2 slots. That's 2 or 3 more than other boards. How are the M.2 PCIE lanes fed?

From the Manual I can see:

Dimm.2 1: No Impact
Dimm.2 2: No Impact
M.2_1 (PCIE Slot Area Upper): No Impact
M.2_2 (PCIE Slot Area Lower): PCIE X16_4 will run at 4X mode
M.2_3 (Behind Motherboard): SATA6G_E1-E4 will be disabled

From the AMD block diagram, I can see we have provisions for two M.2 from the CPU, and potentially two feeding from the TRX40 Chipset. The M.2_3 is clearly fed from the TRX40 Chipset but it's not clear where the other M.2 slots are being fed from.
The two Dimm.2 slots are connected to the CPU, the rest are to the chipset. The M.2_3 is getting the 4 PCIe lanes that are powering 4 of the SATA ports.
The chipset itself supports up to 12 SATA ports but the Zenith II only has 8xSATA. This makes me think that the last 4 PCIe lanes that can be done to SATA ports have been re-purposed for one of the M.2 slots. Then you have another m.2 sharing 4 lanes with the PCIe slot that goes from 8x to 4x.
Having in mind the placement of the M.2 slots on the board and how hard it is to place PCIe4 devices far from the controller, it is fairly certain that only the Dimm.2 slot is connected to the CPU and the other three m.2 slots to the chipset. That should not present any issues unless you want to put 5x PCIe4 nvme SSDs and run all of them in some extreme RAID configuration.
....
Actually... after looking at the TRX40 diagram again, I'm beginning to suspect that M.2_1 might also be connected to the CPU...
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Orion-TR4
(12 items)
CPU
Threadripper 1950x
Motherboard
Asrock x399 Taichi
GPU
EVGA 1080 Ti FE
RAM
G.Skill TridentZ RGB
Hard Drive
Samsung PM961 Nvme SSD
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 EVO SATA SSD
Hard Drive
Intel 5400S SATA SSD
Power Supply
Corsair HX1000i
Cooling
Custom Loop mostly EKWB
Case
Lian-Li PC-O11 WGX ROG Edition
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Audio
Sound Blaster Z
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Last edited by OrionBG; 12-13-2019 at 12:49 AM.
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